Has Paul Sherwin been drinking?

Bleve said:

Has anyone else noticed that Paul Sherwin seems to be talking more bull
than in the past?
"Don't ride with your forearms on the bars, it's very unstable" etc.
I wonder if he's lost the plot or forgotten how to ride a bicycle?

... so Carl you'd be comfortable for the average punter watching the tour highlights to get out on a Sunday morning and have a go at that cool-looking forearms-over-bars position, perhaps while on the front of a gnarly group of other similarly average punters wobbling along Beach Road???

Bleve said:

Has anyone else noticed that Paul Sherwin seems to be talking more bull
than in the past?
"Don't ride with your forearms on the bars, it's very unstable" etc.
I wonder if he's lost the plot or forgotten how to ride a bicycle? Or
if he's drunk or something? It's kinda funny (and yes, although I'm
bagging him a bit, the combination of Phil & Paul remains the best
cycling commentary team around, by a significant margin, IMO). Maybe
it's the lack of someone pushing a monster gear, or having testicular
cancer, or spinning an incredible cadence to fill his time, and he's
making new stuff up?

Ob message to Tomalaris : enough with the "commentary" post-stage from
your mates or someone you stumbled into while boozing in the pressroom.
I'd rather watch the presentation than listen to Rob Arnold or some
anonymous ex pro rider telling us all about what we just saw anyway 🙂
If they're going to offer some insight into tactical decisions or
something, bring it on, but if it's just "wow, I'm on telly! Say
something!", ditch it!

Riding with forearms on the flats of the bars has been banned in our
cycle club events, due to safety considerations, as have victory
salutes.

Carl, not knocking your coaching but are you saying having your
forearms on the flats is inherently stable? That having your hands
nowhere near the brakes/gears is safe? I dont think I would want to
ride in a group where that was the norm, but then I wouldnt want to
ride in a group where they were applying the brakes unnecessarily
either.

And If there is a moment for someone who has been following and writing
(1 million + words) on cycling for years then why not get your mug on
telly for the peeps back home and get some recognition?

Jeez lighten up and send Bombe Alaska at Mr Gate instead.

Unregistered said:

... so Carl you'd be comfortable for the average punter watching the tour highlights to get out on a Sunday morning and have a go at that cool-looking forearms-over-bars position, perhaps while on the front of a gnarly group of other similarly average punters wobbling along Beach Road???

I think Carl was saying that Paul has been stating the bleeding obvious - to those that ride. His comments are better suited to an uneducated nonriding audience, and to be honest, I don't really think there will be too many of those in Australia watching the TdF.

I reckon some of the garble that has been coming out of Sherwin's mouth is a waste of oxygen. Agree with Carl - get on with the business of providing thoughtful incisive commentary that is relevent and meaningful to the race.

Unregistered said:

Bleve said:

Has anyone else noticed that Paul Sherwin seems to be talking more bull
than in the past?
"Don't ride with your forearms on the bars, it's very unstable" etc.
I wonder if he's lost the plot or forgotten how to ride a bicycle?

.. so Carl you'd be comfortable for the average punter watching the
tour highlights to get out on a Sunday morning and have a go at that
cool-looking forearms-over-bars position, perhaps while on the front of
a gnarly group of other similarly average punters wobbling along Beach
Road???

It's no more unstable than using aerobars, and while you shouldn't do
it in a bunch but I see no problem with doing it at other appropriate
times, the usual caveats applying. I would credit most people with the
ability to make up their own minds as to what they can ride safely. I
don't think it's a "never do" sort of thing anyway.

warrwych said:

I think Carl was saying that Paul has been stating the bleeding obvious - to those that ride. His comments are better suited to an uneducated nonriding audience, and to be honest, I don't really think there will be too many of those in Australia watching the TdF.

I reckon some of the garble that has been coming out of Sherwin's mouth is a waste of oxygen. Agree with Carl - get on with the business of providing thoughtful incisive commentary that is relevent and meaningful to the race.

I think you're seriously underestimating the proportion of occasional or non-cyclists who watch the TdF coverage, and even amongst those who do call themselves regular bike riders, I'd guess that the majority have never even thought about entering a race or getting remotely as serious about their riding as people who bother to read this forum.

Of course if you DO happen to be one of Carl's cognoscenti then some of the commentary you hear from Phil and Paul is going to sound over the top, bleeding obvious, oversimplistic etc etc. Their target audience is not just hard core bike racers who might be interested in how many W/kg Cadel Evans can produce going up the Alpe d'Huez, but includes mug punters who wonder why most of the riders just roll along together in a big group for five hours, or why the guy on the yellow jersey gets to keep it when he crosses the line in 100th position in the bunch.

gumby said:

Bleve said:

Has anyone else noticed that Paul Sherwin seems to be talking more bull
than in the past?
"Don't ride with your forearms on the bars, it's very unstable" etc.
I wonder if he's lost the plot or forgotten how to ride a bicycle? Or
if he's drunk or something? It's kinda funny (and yes, although I'm
bagging him a bit, the combination of Phil & Paul remains the best
cycling commentary team around, by a significant margin, IMO). Maybe
it's the lack of someone pushing a monster gear, or having testicular
cancer, or spinning an incredible cadence to fill his time, and he's
making new stuff up?

Ob message to Tomalaris : enough with the "commentary" post-stage from
your mates or someone you stumbled into while boozing in the pressroom.
I'd rather watch the presentation than listen to Rob Arnold or some
anonymous ex pro rider telling us all about what we just saw anyway 🙂
If they're going to offer some insight into tactical decisions or
something, bring it on, but if it's just "wow, I'm on telly! Say
something!", ditch it!

Riding with forearms on the flats of the bars has been banned in our
cycle club events, due to safety considerations, as have victory
salutes.

No hands victory salutes are banned from all but elite level UCI
sanctioned road racing. I'm not aware of any such stipulation WRT arm
resting on bars. Your local rules notwithstanding, I see no problem
with riding in that way when off the front in a race.
I'm also not really sure that banning victory salutes is a real safety
thing - again it comes down to a bit of sense. You're not going to do
a Zabel at M-SR (and even then he didn't crash, just lost his win), but
what's wrong with riding over the line celebrating if you're 50m clear
and cruising? Sometimes the rules are an ass (but we still have to
play by them, I'm not advocating breaking the rules, just perhaps
changing them).

Quoted message said:

Carl, not knocking your coaching but are you saying having your
forearms on the flats is inherently stable?

I don't think it's inherently dangerous when used in an appropriate
context.

Quoted message said:

That having your hands
nowhere near the brakes/gears is safe? I dont think I would want to
ride in a group where that was the norm, but then I wouldnt want to
ride in a group where they were applying the brakes unnecessarily
either.

There's lots of 'unstable' things we do all the time. Ride no-hands to
have a stretch, or change clothing, reach down and grope for biddons,
some loons even wipe their hands on their tyres after crossing glass in
some supersticious act etc. All of which are arguably more unstable
than resting your forearms to get a slight aero advantage when solo
riding.

Quoted message said:

And If there is a moment for someone who has been following and writing
(1 million + words) on cycling for years then why not get your mug on
telly for the peeps back home and get some recognition?

Sure, all for it '*if* he had something inciteful to offer. Here's Rob
Arnold, editor of Ride, who is a nice bloke by all accounts, but my
take on it was that he didn't offer anything, and took away from time
that could have been spent listening to McEwan panting or perving on
podium girls. YMMV 🙂

Quoted message said:

Jeez lighten up and send Bombe Alaska at Mr Gate instead.

That's easy - start watching 30 mins after program goes to air 🙂 Miss
the cooking show, the wine [censored] *and* the spacefilling local
commentator (who is getting better, but should be practicing at home
with his karaoke kit, not on live TV!)

Unregistered said:

I think you're seriously underestimating the proportion of occasional or non-cyclists who watch the TdF coverage, and even amongst those who do call themselves regular bike riders, I'd guess that the majority have never even thought about entering a race or getting remotely as serious about their riding as people who bother to read this forum.

Of course if you DO happen to be one of Carl's cognoscenti then some of the commentary you hear from Phil and Paul is going to sound over the top, bleeding obvious, oversimplistic etc etc. Their target audience is not just hard core bike racers who might be interested in how many W/kg Cadel Evans can produce going up the Alpe d'Huez, but includes mug punters who wonder why most of the riders just roll along together in a big group for five hours, or why the guy on the yellow jersey gets to keep it when he crosses the line in 100th position in the bunch.

cognoscenti - is that a new line of campagnolo gruppo??

I don't think Carl has a monopoly on being knowledgeable about cycling Unreg. I wasn't saying that only hard core bike racers watch the TdF - please quote me if I did. Sherwin's commentary at times is so basic that it truly seems directed at a non-riding audience. eg two nights ago he made a comment about sweeping corners where you don't need to touch the brakes, and that is why they are called sweeping corners. Well.. it was plainly obvious to anyone looking at that corner on TV that it had a sweeping curve to it, as opposed to a sharp bend. That's what I am talking about. It might have been a useful comment for a visually impaired person listening to the commentary.

I occassionally watch football (Afl) and know total zip about it, yet can understand the jargon laden, technically loaded commentary. Why should it be different with the TdF, that is, why reduce the level of intelligence and insightfulness in the commentary?

Unregistered said:

warrwych said:

I think Carl was saying that Paul has been stating the bleeding obvious
- to those that ride. His comments are better suited to an uneducated
nonriding audience, and to be honest, I don't really think there will
be too many of those in Australia watching the TdF.

I reckon some of the garble that has been coming out of Sherwin's mouth
is a waste of oxygen. Agree with Carl - get on with the business of
providing thoughtful incisive commentary that is relevent and
meaningful to the race.

I think you're _seriously_ underestimating the proportion of occasional
or non-cyclists who watch the TdF coverage, and even amongst those who
do call themselves regular bike riders, I'd guess that the majority
have never even thought about entering a race or getting remotely as
serious about their riding as people who bother to read this forum.

None of us really know the answer to that, but let's say you're right
for the sake of argument. (and bear in mind that I'm not having a real
go at Paul, just making some light banter, and this is a pretty minor
nitpick, and on live TV, P&P have little time to consider what they
say, and I only singled out that as an example, not a specific thing!
with me now?).

I'd suggest that riders not ride in that position while in a bunch
situation or a gusty crosswind or in traffic. *not* that it's a "never
do" sort of thing.

Quoted message said:

Of course if you DO happen to be one of Carl's cognoscenti then some of
the commentary you hear from Phil and Paul is going to sound over the
top, bleeding obvious, oversimplistic etc etc.

Most of the time P&P's coverage is excellent (that's what I wrote in
the OP, paraphrasing) but sometimes, they talk rot. Given that they
talk for what? 4-5 hours pretty-much nonstop when there's little
happening and their audience is constantly changing, they do an
incredible job. I've met Phil, had the pleasure of riding with him at
the TdU a couple of years ago, very smart, switched on bloke.

But... Paul has been dropping more clangers than I remember!

Bleve said:

Most of the time P&P's coverage is excellent (that's what I wrote in
the OP, paraphrasing) but sometimes, they talk rot. Given that they
talk for what? 4-5 hours pretty-much nonstop when there's little
happening and their audience is constantly changing, they do an
incredible job. I've met Phil, had the pleasure of riding with him at
the TdU a couple of years ago, very smart, switched on bloke.

But... Paul has been dropping more clangers than I remember!

I dunno, they both got their share of clangers still. Phil's assertion that Thor was just overjoyed at the fact he still had Yellow on stage 2 was laughable. He kept on at it too, meanwhile the rest of the world saw right away Thor was really gesturing in anger at Robbie.

They do a decent job i guess, are probably the best of the english commentary world, but then theres not much competition there. In other languages plenty of choice and the quality improves.

I have more of a problem with SBS's coverage, that leaves alot to be desired. The other day they cut into some highlights for WA during an intermediate sprint! Thats ridiculous. I dont mind the talking heads at the end so much (agreed, would rather them just follow the winner), id rather hear Rupert Guiness who has a clue than Toma bumbling about. But while Toma is interviewing them, the insight the Rob Arnolds can give wont be much. Last night sucked, one replay of the finish, no podium celebrations... and thats about it really.

is it just me, or is Sherwin using more fancy Euro accents on the Euro names?

Didn't Indurain used to be just plain old "Indurain"? Now he's "Induray-een", with a Western Euro accent :p It's a big toss! The Spanish don't put on a Brit accent to say "Sherwin", and I bet Sherwin wouldn't put on a 'less trendy' accent for Asian names. I doubt very much he'd put on a full-on Chinese accent when mentioning a Chinese rider, and dido for an Indian rider. 🙂

On 2006-07-06, 531Aussie (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

is it just me, or is Sherwin using more fancy Euro accents on the Euro
names?

Didn't Idurain used to be just "Indurain"? Now he's "Induray-een", with

I would make a joek about durians, but I am in the wrong newsfroup.

Quoted message said:

a Western Euro accent :p It's big toss! The Spanish don't put on a Brit

"Peletaww"

Quoted message said:

accent to say "Sherwin", and I bet Sherwin wouldn't put on a 'less

How do you lisp Sherwin?

--
TimC
Modus Ponens in action:
- Nothing is better than world peace.
- A turkey sandwich is better than nothing.
==> Ergo, a turkey sandwich is better than world peace. --unknown

TimC said:

How do you lisp Sherwin?

"Sherrin"

Bleve said:

Has anyone else noticed that Paul Sherwin seems to be talking more bull
than in the past?

Yes. He has been rather repetative and talking nonsense when filling in.

But then for 7 years Lance and Discovery controlled the race and honed
their tactics and everybody else organised themselves in response. Not only
is that gone but half the favourites were pulled on the eve of the race.
And I'm sure it is easier to commentate on a race with Vinokourov in it.

Everybody seems to be waiting till Sunday to declare their hand, that will
probably give them more to talk about.

By the way are Liggett and Sherwin commentating just for SBS?
Or are SBS just picking up their commentary for another broadcaster?
I had always thought that was the case, that they were doing US cable, and
that was why SBS fills in with Basheer from 10.45pm till their coverage
starts at 11pm (or whatever session they are doing).

dewatf.

On 2006-07-06, dewatf (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

By the way are Liggett and Sherwin commentating just for SBS?
Or are SBS just picking up their commentary for another broadcaster?
I had always thought that was the case, that they were doing US cable, and
that was why SBS fills in with Basheer from 10.45pm till their coverage
starts at 11pm (or whatever session they are doing).

They do swap between broadcasters. You'll notice sometimes only one
of Liggett or Sherwin are talking, and quite often, you can hear the
other in the background quite loud (they commentate from the same
room, and mics pick up people on the other side of the room), talking
about similar things to some other broadcaster (something probably
popped up on their computer, and they both start talking about similar
things to their respective audience).

You'll also note, when they are talking to us, they will drop in
Australian references. Presumably when they are talking to e.g. the
British broadcaster, they talk about Brit riders.

--
TimC
These days I'd use MOSFETs. 1kV 6A (use at 200VDC) ones are about $10 US.
Should do a hell of a job on twisted pair Ethernet equipment. - Brian in ASR

TimC said:

On 2006-07-06, dewatf (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

By the way are Liggett and Sherwin commentating just for SBS?
Or are SBS just picking up their commentary for another broadcaster?
I had always thought that was the case, that they were doing US cable, and
that was why SBS fills in with Basheer from 10.45pm till their coverage
starts at 11pm (or whatever session they are doing).

They do swap between broadcasters. You'll notice sometimes only one
of Liggett or Sherwin are talking, and quite often, you can hear the
other in the background quite loud (they commentate from the same
room, and mics pick up people on the other side of the room), talking
about similar things to some other broadcaster (something probably
popped up on their computer, and they both start talking about similar
things to their respective audience).

You'll also note, when they are talking to us, they will drop in
Australian references. Presumably when they are talking to e.g. the
British broadcaster, they talk about Brit riders.

--
TimC
These days I'd use MOSFETs. 1kV 6A (use at 200VDC) ones are about $10 US.
Should do a hell of a job on twisted pair Ethernet equipment. - Brian in ASR

I thought they ultimately work for "x", being the sat co. or whoever has the TdF rights, then local channels such as SBS pay to have the feed and in addition can pay extra to have a personal on-air chat with Phil/Paul after they quickly don an SBS shirt. Last year I was partly in Aus and the last half of the TdF I was in South Africa, and the commentary deal was identical as far as I could see, with Phil/Paul commenting. The feed in SA was satellite.

In article <[email hidden]>,

jur said:

I thought they ultimately work for "x", being the sat co. or whoever
has the TdF rights

My guess is that they actually work for themselves, and offer tailored
packages to all the English-speaking broadcasters.

--
Shane Stanley

531Aussie said:

is it just me, or is Sherwin using more fancy Euro accents on the Euro
names?

Didn't Idurain used to be just "Indurain"? Now he's "Induray-een", with
a Western Euro accent :p It's big toss! The Spanish don't put on a Brit
accent to say "Sherwin", and I bet Sherwin wouldn't put on a 'less
trendy' accent for Asian names. I doubt very much he'd put on a full-on
Chinese accent when mentioning a Chinese rider, and dido for an Indian
rider. 🙂

They're still confusing us all with leakygas/liquigas/lickygas

Bleve said:

gumby said:

Riding with forearms on the flats of the bars has been banned in our
cycle club events, due to safety considerations, as have victory
salutes.

No hands victory salutes are banned from all but elite level UCI
sanctioned road racing. I'm not aware of any such stipulation WRT arm
resting on bars. Your local rules notwithstanding, I see no problem
with riding in that way when off the front in a race.
I'm also not really sure that banning victory salutes is a real safety
thing - again it comes down to a bit of sense. You're not going to do
a Zabel at M-SR (and even then he didn't crash, just lost his win), but
what's wrong with riding over the line celebrating if you're 50m clear
and cruising? Sometimes the rules are an ass (but we still have to
play by them, I'm not advocating breaking the rules, just perhaps
changing them).

I think it's possibly more to do with the fact that riding no hands on
public roads is against the law... regardless of why.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And If there is a moment for someone who has been following and writing
(1 million + words) on cycling for years then why not get your mug on
telly for the peeps back home and get some recognition?

Sure, all for it '*if* he had something inciteful to offer. Here's Rob
Arnold, editor of Ride, who is a nice bloke by all accounts, but my
take on it was that he didn't offer anything, and took away from time
that could have been spent listening to McEwan panting or perving on
podium girls. YMMV 🙂

Agreed, especially when we had to listen to some German bloke the night
before who didn't have the decency to speak English ;-)

--
Brett"Go Aussie!"S

Overall I don't think the commentary has changed that much, in the past
we only got 1/2 an hour a day. The race was distilled to one or two
moves that made the race.

They were probably making similar comments to the ones that we heard
for hours, and then we got a few in the coverage. The races take hours,
not much happens a lot of the time and dead air isn't good, hence the
patter.

That said the lead ins and out (Bert's 'interviews'😉 have been poor
this year, as has the polish of the 1/2 hr shoes.

And to finish off.. Bring back Gary Imlach, used to do fantastic back
story pieces.. Must get some digitised.

PiledHigher