Hartshorne Woods warning

"Carla A-G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For those who ride in Hartshorne, be careful:

@.efdcfa5"]http:[email hidden]@.efdcfa5

- CA-G haven't been there in a while...

Can-Am Girls Kick Ass!

This guy posted the same thing on MTBreview (i think he's looking for some sympathy). I think he is
partially at fault here. Even if the limb was put there by an a**hole, you should always ride a
trail as if it is new. What's to say with all the wind we have had in this area lately (NJ, where
Hartshorne is), a limb might have snapped off a tree and caused the same obstruction?

I always ride with rule #1 being...

Know your surroundings!

"Carla A-G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For those who ride in Hartshorne, be careful:

@.efdcfa5"]http:[email hidden]@.efdcfa5

I reckon the old lady did it.
--
Westie (Replace 'invalid' with 'yahoo' when replying.)

Sir Ride-A-Lot said:

I always ride with rule #1 being...

Know your surroundings!

I always ride with rule #1 being "don't ride blind". If you can't see enough of the trail to stop in
a visible distance, you're riding blind. If this guy hadn't been tear-assing around a blind corner,
he'd have saved himself a trip to the hospital.

--
-BB- To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least) "It's a shallow life that
doesn't give a person a few scars" - Garrison Keillor

"BB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sir Ride-A-Lot said:

I always ride with rule #1 being...

Know your surroundings!

I always ride with rule #1 being "don't ride blind". If you can't see enough of the trail to stop
in a visible distance, you're riding blind. If this guy hadn't been tear-assing around a blind
corner, he'd have saved himself a trip to the hospital.

--
-BB- To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least) "It's a shallow life
that doesn't give a person a few scars" - Garrison

Keillor

Know your surroundings, don't ride blind. It's pretty much the same idea. I can't understand how he
did that at Hartshorne. It's relatively flat. Even going at a good clip, you can easily see what's
ahead. I think there is more to this story. Maybe he was distracted?

"Sir Ride-A-Lot" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Know your surroundings, don't ride blind. It's pretty much the same idea. I can't understand how
he did that at Hartshorne. It's relatively flat. Even going at a good clip, you can easily see
what's ahead. I think there is more to this story. Maybe he was distracted?

There's probably a lot more to the story. This was a criminal act. The police should be involved.
Let's not lose sight of the real issue in this thing and get caught up in a "holier than thou/blame
the victim" game here. I agree with all of you that riding aware and knowing surroundings are key to
safe biking. However, there's not a soul out there who hasn't been surprised by something on the
trail or perhaps had a little to much speed than was prudent at a given moment. Risk is inherent to
the sport. Most will minimize it to some degree, but it will always be there.

The issue here isn't distraction or failure to spot an obstacle on the trail. The issue is that some
lowlife piece of [censored] intentionally placed a life threatening hazard in a situation designed to
inflict maximum harm. By all appearances this was a criminal act. The person who did it should go to
jail. The victim should notify the police. Criticize the poor [censored] that hit the log if you must,
but I think the majority of the condemnation and outrage needs to directed at the scumbag who set a
trap that injured a biker who was apparently riding legaly and responsibly.

I like to think I'm situationally aware while riding, but speed, familiarity, unexpected events, and
the vaguaries of human perception can all conspire against us. No amount of situational awareness
can protect you, however, if people are out to deliberatly cause harm. This story bothers me. I'd
hate to see the folks in this newsgroup get all instrospective and begin to think this is about
trail access or communicating with other user communities.

There's already enough risk in the sport. Anyone who's been riding for more than 6 months has
probably been injured in some way or another. The last thing we need is to accept the risk of
criminal attack as part of the equation.

Tom

tcmedara said:

The issue here isn't distraction or failure to spot an obstacle on the trail. The issue is that
some lowlife piece of [censored] intentionally placed a life threatening hazard in a situation designed
to inflict maximum harm. By all appearances this was a criminal act.

Good point.

--
-BB- To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least) "It's a shallow life that
doesn't give a person a few scars" - Garrison Keillor

Westie said:

Quoted message said:

For those who ride in Hartshorne, be careful:

@.efdcfa5"]http:[email hidden]@.efdcfa5

I reckon the old lady did it.

It's in the followup messages - the guy's pretty sure the old lady wasn't responsible.

--
a.m-b FAQ: j-harris.netambfaq.htmOpen ↗

b.bmx FAQ: t-online.debmx faq.htmOpen ↗

Sir Ride-A-Lot said:

Quoted message said:

@.efdcfa5"]http:[email hidden]@.efdcfa5

This guy posted the same thing on MTBreview (i think he's looking for some sympathy).

consumerreview.com = mtbr.com

--
a.m-b FAQ: j-harris.netambfaq.htmOpen ↗

b.bmx FAQ: t-online.debmx faq.htmOpen ↗

BB <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Sir Ride-A-Lot said:

I always ride with rule #1 being...

Know your surroundings!

I always ride with rule #1 being "don't ride blind". If you can't see enough of the trail to stop
in a visible distance, you're riding blind. If this guy hadn't been tear-assing around a blind
corner, he'd have saved himself a trip to the hospital.

Wow. With hindsight like that, you guys must never do ANYTHING wrong. First of all, you never KNOW
your surroundings. You have a set of assumptions and an idea of calculated risk. Having ridden
Hartshorne quite a bit, you're get to assume certain things about the trail. A log cut to fit
between two trees at head level probably doesn't fit into your set of assumptions.

/s

bomba <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Westie said:

Quoted message said:

For those who ride in Hartshorne, be careful:

@.efdcfa5"]http:[email hidden]@.efdcfa5

I reckon the old lady did it.

It's in the followup messages - the guy's pretty sure the old lady wasn't responsible.

My money's on Colonel Mustard.

JD

"supabonbon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

BB <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sir Ride-A-Lot said:

I always ride with rule #1 being...

Know your surroundings!

I always ride with rule #1 being "don't ride blind". If you can't see enough of the trail to
stop in a visible distance, you're riding blind.

If

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

this guy hadn't been tear-assing around a blind corner, he'd have saved himself a trip to the
hospital.

Wow. With hindsight like that, you guys must never do ANYTHING wrong. First of all, you never KNOW
your surroundings. You have a set of assumptions and an idea of calculated risk. Having ridden
Hartshorne quite a bit, you're get to assume certain things about the trail. A log cut to fit
between two trees at head level probably doesn't fit into your set of assumptions.

Not to mention, when riding, mostly things at that level will be above your line of sight, until you
get close up, by which time BANG!

Shaun aRe

supabonbon said:

Wow. With hindsight like that, you guys must never do ANYTHING wrong. First of all, you never KNOW
your surroundings. You have a set of assumptions and an idea of calculated risk.

Maybe limbs at head level are a rare occurrance there, and he had assumptions based on that. I've
come across several from time to time (always from natural occurances, not sabotage), and always am
going at a speed where I can duck (at least to the point that the helmet takes the hit). My point
was that "knowing your surroundings" is a dangerous rule, because it is based on assumptions.

This guy was admittedly going unusually fast. He blew past a hiker too, apparently, which was
another bad move (talk about karma - if he'd have slowed for the hiker, he'd have been going slowly
at the limb). If you want to put the blame entirely on someone else because that limb was there from
sabotage instead of nature, be my guest. But the way he was riding sounds like it went beyond
"calculated risk".

--
-BB- To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least) "It's a shallow life that
doesn't give a person a few scars" - Garrison Keillor

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

bomba <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Westie said:

> For those who ride in Hartshorne, be careful:
>
>

@.efdcfa5"]http:[email hidden]@.efdcfa5

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I reckon the old lady did it.

It's in the followup messages - the guy's pretty sure the old lady

wasn't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

responsible.

My money's on Colonel Mustard.

JD

With the candlestick

cg

supabonbon said:

Wow. With hindsight like that, you guys must never do ANYTHING wrong. First of all, you never KNOW
your surroundings. You have a set of assumptions and an idea of calculated risk. Having ridden
Hartshorne quite a bit, you're get to assume certain things about the trail. A log cut to fit
between two trees at head level probably doesn't fit into your set of assumptions.

Maybe limbs at head level are a rare occurrance there, and he had assumptions based on that. I've
come across several from time to time (always from natural occurances, not sabotage), and always am
going at a speed where I can duck (at least to the point that the helmet takes the hit). My point
was that "knowing your surroundings" is a dangerous rule, because it is based on assumptions.

It sucks that the limb was there from sabotage and not nature. But I do have to wonder how fast that
guy was going around a corner to get 29 stitches. I also wonder why that hiker left that log up
there in the first place, knowing it was likely to hurt someone; maybe she was so "helpful" because
she knew she should have taken it down.

--
-BB- To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least) "It's a shallow life that
doesn't give a person a few scars" - Garrison Keillor

"Sir Scroll Not-A-Lot" blew

Quoted message said:

This guy posted the same thing on MTBreview (i think he's looking for some sympathy).

That *IS MtbR... talk about not being aware!!!
---
Slacker

"Chris Glidden" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

bomba <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 11:22:10 +1300, Westie wrote:

>> For those who ride in Hartshorne, be careful:
>>
>>

@.efdcfa5"]http:[email hidden]@.efdcfa5

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> I reckon the old lady did it.

It's in the followup messages - the guy's pretty sure the old lady

wasn't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

responsible.

My money's on Colonel Mustard.

JD

With the candlestick

Shaun aRe - Sheesh!

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"supabonbon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

BB <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:44:46 -0500, Sir Ride-A-Lot wrote:

> I always ride with rule #1 being...
>
> Know your surroundings!

I always ride with rule #1 being "don't ride blind". If you can't see enough of the trail to
stop in a visible distance, you're riding blind.

If

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

this guy hadn't been tear-assing around a blind corner, he'd have saved himself a trip to the
hospital.

Wow. With hindsight like that, you guys must never do ANYTHING wrong. First of all, you never
KNOW your surroundings. You have a set of assumptions and an idea of calculated risk. Having
ridden Hartshorne quite a bit, you're get to assume certain things about the trail. A log cut to
fit between two trees at head level probably doesn't fit into your set of assumptions.

Not to mention, when riding, mostly things at that level will be above your line of sight, until
you get close up, by which time BANG!

Shaun aRe

Hey, lookee that! Nice point Shaun. It might also be worth pointing out that these trails aren't in
some wide-open, treeless area like Moab. This is a heavily foliated area, and with 5 inches of
fallen leaves covering a rocky, rooty, rutty trail you've got a lot to concentrate on. Even if I saw
a log jammed between two trees at head level, I might question my own judgement first. It just
doesn't compute. With the density of trees, it would be easy to believe that it was a question of
depth perception. So, if I'm not preaching to the choir enough, I'm coming out firmly against people
to jam logs between trees at head level for mtb'ers to mash their faces into. I know, I'm going out
on a limb. Sorry. /s

"supabonbon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Wow. With hindsight like that, you guys must never do ANYTHING wrong. First of all, you never
KNOW your surroundings. You have a set of assumptions and an idea of calculated risk. Having
ridden Hartshorne quite a bit, you're get to assume certain things about the trail. A log cut
to fit between two trees at head level probably doesn't fit into your set of assumptions.

Not to mention, when riding, mostly things at that level will be above

your

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

line of sight, until you get close up, by which time BANG!

Shaun aRe

Hey, lookee that! Nice point Shaun.

Why of course ',;~}~

Quoted message said:

It might also be worth pointing out that these trails aren't in some wide-open, treeless area like
Moab. This is a heavily foliated area, and with 5 inches of fallen leaves covering a rocky, rooty,
rutty trail you've got a lot to concentrate on.

This is how I took it to be.

Quoted message said:

Even if I saw a log jammed between two trees at head level, I might question my own judgement
first. It just doesn't compute. With the density of trees, it would be easy to believe that it was
a question of depth perception.

Yup - 'over the radar', so to speak. I've been on narrow trails through thick trees and bushes where
a whole small tree has been across the trail at ~head hight, where it's looked like it was at the
_side_ of the trail rather than right in front of me.

Quoted message said:

So, if I'm not preaching to the choir enough, I'm coming out firmly against people to jam logs
between trees at head level for mtb'ers to mash their faces into. I know, I'm going out on a limb.
Sorry. /s

Yes - it is a 'Bad Thing', indeed.

Shaun aRe

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Chris Glidden" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

bomba <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

> On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 11:22:10 +1300, Westie wrote:
>
> >> For those who ride in Hartshorne, be careful:
> >>
> >>

@.efdcfa5"]http:[email hidden]@.efdcfa5

Quoted message said:

> >
> > I reckon the old lady did it.
>
> It's in the followup messages - the guy's pretty sure the old lady

wasn't

Quoted message said:

> responsible.

My money's on Colonel Mustard.

JD

With the candlestick

Quoted message said:

Shaun aRe - Sheesh!

It was a big ass candlestick in the shape of a tree branch. Didn't you ever play Clue?

cg