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hard tail or full susser

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Mountain Bikes
Published
11 December 2003
Last activity
19 December 2003
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Jimmy [censored]
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  1. This has probably been discussed before but I would be grateful your opinion ... it might save a big
    fall out . Me mate tried cross country racing last year with a specialized full susser and did quite
    well but felt he lost a lot on the hills and as the downhill's where not that bad a light hard tail
    was the order of the day and the fact the 99 % of the riders where using them ...he's now the proud
    owner of a specialized m5 with lots of exspensive and light goodies attached to it . Our other mate
    is adamant that a full susser with lockout would be a far better option as you have the best of both
    worlds and the fact that the world championship was won on a full susser says he is right .. No one
    will shift their opinion .

    What do you think ?...

    Jim

  2. "Jimmy [censored]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    This has probably been discussed before but I would be grateful your opinion ... it might save a
    big fall out . Me mate tried cross country racing last year with a specialized full


    susser

    Quoted message said:

    and did quite well but felt he lost a lot on the hills and as the


    downhill's

    Quoted message said:

    where not that bad a light hard tail was the order of the day and the


    fact

    Quoted message said:

    the 99 % of the riders where using them ...he's now the proud owner of a specialized m5 with lots
    of exspensive and light goodies attached to it . Our other mate is adamant that a full susser with
    lockout would be a far better option as you have the best of both worlds and the fact that the
    world championship was won on a full susser says he is right .. No one


    will

    Quoted message said:

    shift their opinion .

    What do you think ?...

    Jim

    Why bother having full suspension if its going to be locked out. Its there, so use it. If you want
    the feel of a HT on a FS bike, then just get a HT and save yourself the hassle.

    - CA-G

    Can-Am Girls Kick Ass!

  3. Jimmy censored said:

    This has probably been discussed before but I would be grateful your opinion ... it might save a
    big fall out . Me mate tried cross country racing last year with a specialized full susser and did
    quite well but felt he lost a lot on the hills and as the downhill's where not that bad a light
    hard tail was the order of the day and the fact the 99 % of the riders where using them ...he's now
    the proud owner of a specialized m5 with lots of exspensive and light goodies attached to it . Our
    other mate is adamant that a full susser with lockout would be a far better option as you have the
    best of both worlds and the fact that the world championship was won on a full susser says he is
    right .. No one will shift their opinion .

    You need a full suspension bike for sure.

    Something like this would be the perfect steed for winning many an XC race:

    home.pacbell.netwayslack.jpg

  4. "Jimmy [censored]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    This has probably been discussed before but I would be grateful your opinion ... it might save a
    big fall out . Me mate tried cross country racing last year with a specialized full


    susser

    Quoted message said:

    and did quite well but felt he lost a lot on the hills and as the


    downhill's

    Quoted message said:

    where not that bad a light hard tail was the order of the day and the


    fact

    Quoted message said:

    the 99 % of the riders where using them ...he's now the proud owner of a specialized m5 with lots
    of exspensive and light goodies attached to it . Our other mate is adamant that a full susser with
    lockout would be a far better option as you have the best of both worlds and the fact that the
    world championship was won on a full susser says he is right .. No one


    will

    Quoted message said:

    shift their opinion .

    What do you think ?...

    Jim

    You need to look into stable platform rear shocks like the Progressive 5th element. It does a great
    job resisting pedaling input but stays fully active for all the bumps. Their Air shock is one of the
    lightest out there too. Lock out shocks are a PITA.

    Mike

  5. Jimmy censored said:

    This has probably been discussed before but I would be grateful your opinion ... it might save a
    big fall out . Me mate tried cross country racing last year with a specialized full susser and did
    quite well but felt he lost a lot on the hills and as the downhill's where not that bad a light
    hard tail was the order of the day and the fact the 99 % of the riders where using them ...he's now
    the proud owner of a specialized m5 with lots of exspensive and light goodies attached to it . Our
    other mate is adamant that a full susser with lockout would be a far better option as you have the
    best of both worlds and the fact that the world championship was won on a full susser says he is
    right .. No one will shift their opinion .

    What do you think ?...

    The more skilled the rider, the less the FS advantage matters (and the FS disadvantage still counts
    as much). On most XC courses, a HT is the fast way 'round, at least for those who know how to ride
    well. If OTOH, just pointing the bike in the general direction is about as technical as you wanna
    get, a FS might make you faster.

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

  6. "P e t e F a g e r l i n" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Jimmy censored said:

    This has probably been discussed before but I would be grateful your opinion ... it might save a
    big fall out . Me mate tried cross country racing last year with a specialized full


    susser

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and did quite well but felt he lost a lot on the hills and as the


    downhill's

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    where not that bad a light hard tail was the order of the day and the


    fact

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the 99 % of the riders where using them ...he's now the proud owner of a specialized m5 with lots
    of exspensive and light goodies attached to it . Our other mate is adamant that a full susser
    with lockout would be a far better option as you have the best of both worlds and the fact that
    the world championship was won on a full susser says he is right .. No one


    will

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    shift their opinion .

    You need a full suspension bike for sure.

    Something like this would be the perfect steed for winning many an XC race:

    home.pacbell.netwayslack.jpg

    Yeah, that's the ticket! ;^)

    Mike - I wouldn't ride that thing DH!

  7. P e t e F a g e r l i n said:

    You need a full suspension bike for sure.

    Something like this would be the perfect steed for winning many an XC race:

    home.pacbell.netwayslack.jpg

    Heh. I actually saw a guy try to ride something similar to that in a tight, twisty singletrack time
    trial with as much up as down.

    He didn't do very well.

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

  8. "Jimmy [censored]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    This has probably been discussed before but I would be grateful your opinion ... it might save a
    big fall out . Me mate tried cross country racing last year with a specialized full


    susser

    Quoted message said:

    and did quite well but felt he lost a lot on the hills and as the


    downhill's

    Quoted message said:

    where not that bad a light hard tail was the order of the day and the


    fact

    Quoted message said:

    the 99 % of the riders where using them ...he's now the proud owner of a specialized m5 with lots
    of exspensive and light goodies attached to it . Our other mate is adamant that a full susser with
    lockout would be a far better option as you have the best of both worlds and the fact that the
    world championship was won on a full susser says he is right .. No one


    will

    Quoted message said:

    shift their opinion .

    What do you think ?...

    Jim

    It depends a lot on the course and rider skills. I just picked up a full susser this past summer
    (after cracking my hardtail). Its a blur, so its a little bit heavy and a little more trailbikish
    than a full on race bike. Either way, on most of my local trails I feel much faster, and my times
    did improve. Then again, my trails are really rocky, rooty, and technical. It certainly helps that
    the bike carves corners much better too.

    On some of the courses I raced this past year, the full suspension was definitely an advantage.
    When a half mile stretch of the loop is shared with the DH course, you know its got rough sections!
    I was able to pass people that were fitter than me through a combination of technical skills (honed
    from riding the hardtail with 65mm front travel in some nasty tight stuff) and the extra bit of
    leeway I had with the suspension. The BIGGEST difference is when you're riding over a long rough
    section at speed. I find it much easier to pedal the fully, and therefore I keep my speed and
    momentum a lot easier. I can pedal just fine on the hardtail too, but having my legs serve the dual
    purpose of propulsion and all of my "rear suspension" on the hardtail made it very tiring to do. On
    the fully I can focus more on pedalling and keeping the fast line, without having to worry about
    absorbing in the middle of a pedal stroke.

    However, this is rough trails we're talking about here. If there are a bunch of long, non-technical
    climbs or smooth singletrack, then I'd much prefer a race-tuned hardtail over a fully. There's
    nothing like the instant response and stiffness of a hardtail for smooth stuff, or even easy rough
    stuff. And as long as you've got the technical skills, the tech parts of the course can be done
    almost as fast as a full suspension bike, although it'll be a small bit more tiring.

    Don't bother with lockout. Put a 5th element or a swinger SPV or some other stable platform
    technology on your bike if you can, or get a bike like the blur that helps minimize bob (it still
    bobs, don't get me wrong, but nowhere near as much as most of the other designs I tried).

    So, to sum all that blabbering up:

    Fully for technical courses Hardtail for fast, smooth courses.

    Jon Bond

  9. hardtail with tubeless tires... all the way. i used to race a sugar, no real complaints i guess- but i switched to hardtail after two dualies and would never go back. i got sick of full sus sucking up all my pedaling power when i wanted to go fast. a hardtail will make you a better rider cause it will force you to learn how to ride the technical stuff. hardtail hardtail hardtail

    😄

  10. P e t e F a g e r l i n <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>... -8<- snip ->8-

    Quoted message said:

    You need a full suspension bike for sure.

    Something like this would be the perfect steed for winning many an XC race:

    home.pacbell.netwayslack.jpg

    My irony-o-meter is going crazy, and I think it has something to do with this quote: "I merely wrote
    that I don''t get the fascination that people have with posting mundane pictures of mundane bikes
    leaning against the couch"

    I wonder who could have said that?

    Donning asbestos suit...

    Adam.

  11. "P e t e F a g e r l i n" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    home.pacbell.netwayslack.jpg

    I like the table lamps. Where did you get them from?

    - CA-G

    Can-Am Girls Kick Ass!

  12. "Adam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    P e t e F a g e r l i n <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    -8<- snip ->8-

    Quoted message said:

    You need a full suspension bike for sure.

    Something like this would be the perfect steed for winning many an XC race:

    home.pacbell.netwayslack.jpg

    My irony-o-meter is going crazy, and I think it has something to do with this quote: "I merely
    wrote that I don''t get the fascination that people have with posting mundane pictures of mundane
    bikes leaning against the couch"

    I wonder who could have said that?

    Donning asbestos suit...

    Adam.

    I see you've graduated from the Alanis Morissette school of Irony.

    Mike - and your 'sarcasm-o-meter' is broken.

  13. Carla A-G said:

    "P e t e F a g e r l i n" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    home.pacbell.netwayslack.jpg

    I like the table lamps. Where did you get them from?

    - CA-G

    Can-Am Girls Kick Ass!

    You and my wife must vibrate on the same level! She would have seen those before the big bike.....

    Gary

  14. "Michael Dart" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "P e t e F a g e r l i n" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Jimmy censored said:

    This has probably been discussed before but I would be grateful your opinion ... it might save
    a big fall out . Me mate tried cross country racing last year with a specialized full


    susser

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and did quite well but felt he lost a lot on the hills and as the


    downhill's

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    where not that bad a light hard tail was the order of the day and the


    fact

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the 99 % of the riders where using them ...he's now the proud owner of


    a

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    specialized m5 with lots of exspensive and light goodies attached to it


    .

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Our other mate is adamant that a full susser with lockout would be a


    far

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    better option as you have the best of both worlds and the fact that


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    world championship was won on a full susser says he is right .. No one


    will

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    shift their opinion .

    You need a full suspension bike for sure.

    Something like this would be the perfect steed for winning many an XC race:

    home.pacbell.netwayslack.jpg

    Yeah, that's the ticket! ;^)

    Mike - I wouldn't ride that thing DH!

    shizaa!!! is that a 888 on the front of that?

    mmmmm

    dave

  15. "GeeDubb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    You and my wife must vibrate on the same level!

    Family newsgroup, buddy.

    Bill "just for Jonesy" S.

  16. "Jimmy [censored]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>... <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    What do you think ?...

    I think amateur racing is a joke. I think you need a rigid singlespeed and a soul to go with that.

    JD

  17. Mark Hickey <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Jimmy censored said:

    This has probably been discussed before but I would be grateful your opinion ... it might save a
    big fall out . Me mate tried cross country racing last year with a specialized full susser and
    did quite well but felt he lost a lot on the hills and as the downhill's where not that bad a
    light hard tail was the order of the day and the fact the 99 % of the riders where using them
    ...he's now the proud owner of a specialized m5 with lots of exspensive and light goodies
    attached to it . Our other mate is adamant that a full susser with lockout would be a far better
    option as you have the best of both worlds and the fact that the world championship was won on a
    full susser says he is right .. No one will shift their opinion .

    What do you think ?...

    The more skilled the rider, the less the FS advantage matters (and the FS disadvantage still
    counts as much).

    Depends on what "advantage" is being discussed. Nowadays, the only disadvantages are, in order of
    importance: Complexity, cost, and weight.

    Quoted message said:

    On most XC courses, a HT is the fast way 'round, at least for those who know how to ride well. If
    OTOH, just pointing the bike in the general direction is about as technical as you wanna get, a FS
    might make you faster.

    Or, if you're not going to race, you might just have more fun (Moore Fun?) on a FS bike. If it's all
    about speed, get a road bike, and don't go on the trails. And if it's about racing, get sponsored so
    you can afford the lightest, flimsiest POS to get to the finish line, but no further.

    The real question is: if you are not going to race, why bother looking at what racers ride?
    --
    Jonesy

  18. "Jon Bond" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "Jimmy [censored]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    This has probably been discussed before but I would be grateful your opinion ... it might save a
    big fall out . Me mate tried cross country racing last year with a specialized full


    susser

    Quoted message said:

    and did quite well but felt he lost a lot on the hills and as the


    downhill's

    Quoted message said:

    where not that bad a light hard tail was the order of the day and the


    fact

    Quoted message said:

    the 99 % of the riders where using them ...he's now the proud owner of a specialized m5 with
    lots of exspensive and light goodies attached to it . Our other mate is adamant that a full
    susser with lockout would be a far better option as you have the best of both worlds and the
    fact that the world championship was won on a full susser says he is right .. No one


    will

    Quoted message said:

    shift their opinion .


    <snip good analysis>

    Quoted message said:

    Don't bother with lockout. Put a 5th element or a swinger SPV or some other stable platform
    technology on your bike if you can, or get a bike like the blur that helps minimize bob (it still
    bobs, don't get me wrong, but nowhere near as much as most of the other designs I tried).

    So, to sum all that blabbering up:

    Fully for technical courses Hardtail for fast, smooth courses.

    Jon Bond

    Well said. paladin

  19. (Adam) said:

    P e t e F a g e r l i n <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    -8<- snip ->8-

    Quoted message said:

    You need a full suspension bike for sure.

    Something like this would be the perfect steed for winning many an


    XC

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    race:

    home.pacbell.netwayslack.jpg

    My irony-o-meter is going crazy, and I think it has something to do with this quote: "I merely
    wrote that I don''t get the fascination that people have with posting mundane pictures of mundane
    bikes leaning against the couch"

    I wonder who could have said that?

    Donning asbestos suit...

    Holy [censored].

    Get your irony-o-meter fixed pronto and while you're at it get your parody-o-meter replaced because
    it's obviously on the fritz.

  20. Carla A-G said:

    "P e t e F a g e r l i n" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    home.pacbell.netwayslack.jpg

    I like the table lamps. Where did you get them from?

    Unknown.

    I'll have to ask my wife if she remembers where she got them.

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