hard intervals before distance in prep?

I have been using this technique for the past 18 years. For me it works
well. I have always preached that LSD is great for recovery from an injury
or weight loss but poor for performance enhancement. When I go long i like
to push the effort level to race pace and above. Early intervals make this
possible.

Try it for a season and you will become a believer. Just prepare to hurt a
bit from the effort.

Ken

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's that time of year when my mind is drifiting to plans for next
season, and one idea that intrigues me is from Dean Golich, which is
doing hard intervals early in preparation, before an emphasis on
distance.

I've got an article by him that reads "The concept is to get fit
aerobically and increase adaptation so that in the next block, which
is the endurance block, athletes can do the miles at a higher speed.
If you just went into miles, you might ride for example, at 18 mph for
four hours. The focal point of doing the intervals is to shock the
system, and with elite cyclists, it gets them aerobically fit, fast,
without muscular damage because the cadence is so high, thus the low
power outputs."

The interval workouts he's talking about are around three minutes or a
bit more at high power.

Any thoughts about this?

JT

****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

I've also been using this method for a few years. It's the only thing
that works for me. I've been with some teams that made me do lots and
lots of miles durring the winter, I hated it and I had my worst seasons
with that method.

Early intervals might not work for everyone, but I swear by them!!!

do you prefer EPO, HGH, Roids, or good old Pot Belge to get the most
out of those intervals?

DepartFictif said:

I've also been using this method for a few years. It's the only thing
that works for me. I've been with some teams that made me do lots and
lots of miles durring the winter, I hated it and I had my worst seasons
with that method.

Early intervals might not work for everyone, but I swear by them!!!

Not that I could follow them, but can you post a sample session?

jj

"Jet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 13 Aug 2005 11:34:07 -0700, "DepartFictif" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I've also been using this method for a few years. It's the only thing
that works for me. I've been with some teams that made me do lots and
lots of miles durring the winter, I hated it and I had my worst
seasons
with that method.

Early intervals might not work for everyone, but I swear by them!!!

Not that I could follow them, but can you post a sample session?

16 reps of one minute on, one minute off at an effort you can sustain
eyeballs out for 2 minutes.
8 reps of one mile at TT pace on a five minute effort plus recovery
interval.
Pyramid at one mile distances (mph)
21,20,22,20,23,20,24,20,25,20,26,20,27,20.......etc.
I do these on the trainer so I don't have to deal with traffic, stops
signs, lights, wind etc.

Phil H

In article <[email hidden]>,

Andrew F Martin said:

do you prefer EPO, HGH, Roids, or good old Pot Belge to get the most
out of those intervals?

Kenacort! Early and often! Haven't you been reading the other threads?

Recommending Kenacort to everyone I race against,

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Roids = hemorRoids? Is that what PRO MASTERS racer (a contradiction in
terms) JT uses?

On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 13:37:09 -0700, "Philip Holman" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Jet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 13 Aug 2005 11:34:07 -0700, "DepartFictif" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I've also been using this method for a few years. It's the only thing
that works for me. I've been with some teams that made me do lots and
lots of miles durring the winter, I hated it and I had my worst
seasons
with that method.

Early intervals might not work for everyone, but I swear by them!!!

Not that I could follow them, but can you post a sample session?

16 reps of one minute on, one minute off at an effort you can sustain
eyeballs out for 2 minutes.
8 reps of one mile at TT pace on a five minute effort plus recovery
interval.
Pyramid at one mile distances (mph)
21,20,22,20,23,20,24,20,25,20,26,20,27,20.......etc.
I do these on the trainer so I don't have to deal with traffic, stops
signs, lights, wind etc.

Phil H

You riding rollers, or do you mean fluid/mag trainer. If the latter, do you
then go out and ride your regular route? (Surely you're not doing indoors
in lieu of riding outdoors)

I could get into something like that. I've got a rain bike I've been
itching to set up on a fluid trainer and use to warm up before going out on
a ride. I kinda like getting the blood flowing and a bit of a quad pump. It
takes about 2-3 minutes after getting off the trainer to gear up and get
out the door, though.

You're in Washington state, right?

Thanks for the info!

jj

"Jet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 13:37:09 -0700, "Philip Holman"
<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Jet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 13 Aug 2005 11:34:07 -0700, "DepartFictif" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

>I've also been using this method for a few years. It's the only
>thing
>that works for me. I've been with some teams that made me do lots
>and
>lots of miles durring the winter, I hated it and I had my worst
>seasons
>with that method.
>
>Early intervals might not work for everyone, but I swear by them!!!

Not that I could follow them, but can you post a sample session?

16 reps of one minute on, one minute off at an effort you can sustain
eyeballs out for 2 minutes.
8 reps of one mile at TT pace on a five minute effort plus recovery
interval.
Pyramid at one mile distances (mph)
21,20,22,20,23,20,24,20,25,20,26,20,27,20.......etc.
I do these on the trainer so I don't have to deal with traffic, stops
signs, lights, wind etc.

Phil H

You riding rollers, or do you mean fluid/mag trainer. If the latter,
do you
then go out and ride your regular route? (Surely you're not doing
indoors
in lieu of riding outdoors)

I have a Cateye Cyclosimulator mag/fan trainer. At 30mph it's set up to
be close to the power required on the road. Indoor sessions like this
are only once or twice a week (depending on WA state weather). This is a
quality workout. Do a 10 minute warmup before and 20 minute warmdown
after. If you do them properly, you won't need to do any more miles that
day (nor will you feel like doing any). Back off on the pace at first
until you can do the whole set then slowly notch it up for subsequent
sessions. The pyramid is a good one for a fitness check. How high can
you go before you [censored] out? Can you beat your own record?

Quoted message said:

I could get into something like that. I've got a rain bike I've been
itching to set up on a fluid trainer and use to warm up before going
out on
a ride. I kinda like getting the blood flowing and a bit of a quad
pump. It
takes about 2-3 minutes after getting off the trainer to gear up and
get
out the door, though.

You're in Washington state, right?

Yep.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the info!

You're welcome.

Phil H

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

It's that time of year when my mind is drifiting to plans for next
season, and one idea that intrigues me is from Dean Golich, which is
doing hard intervals early in preparation, before an emphasis on
distance.

I've got an article by him that reads "The concept is to get fit
aerobically and increase adaptation so that in the next block, which
is the endurance block, athletes can do the miles at a higher speed.
If you just went into miles, you might ride for example, at 18 mph for
four hours. The focal point of doing the intervals is to shock the
system, and with elite cyclists, it gets them aerobically fit, fast,
without muscular damage because the cadence is so high, thus the low
power outputs."

The interval workouts he's talking about are around three minutes or a
bit more at high power.

Any thoughts about this?

"Hard intervals" never hurt, beside the physical pain that is. "Aerobic
fitness" comes around quite quickly. Personally I think it always helps
other type of workouts if that hard interval adaptation is there, and it
is not so difficult to achieve. Further training extends the number and
intensity of intervals one can do. Even if it is winter and the miles
ridden are down, I think the base fitness that allows one to do a few
hard intervals cannot ever be a "bad thing."

For bike racing, the ability to do a lot of hard intervals (and recover
quickly) is associated with the ability to not get dropped, or to make
efforts to drop others. It is one of the prime keys to racing success.
Good tactics combined with interval ability go a very long way in bike
racing. In my opinion, of course.

JT said:

It's that time of year when my mind is drifiting to plans for next
season, and one idea that intrigues me is from Dean Golich, which is
doing hard intervals early in preparation, before an emphasis on
distance.

I've got an article by him that reads "The concept is to get fit
aerobically and increase adaptation so that in the next block, which
is the endurance block, athletes can do the miles at a higher speed.
If you just went into miles, you might ride for example, at 18 mph for
four hours. The focal point of doing the intervals is to shock the
system, and with elite cyclists, it gets them aerobically fit, fast,
without muscular damage because the cadence is so high, thus the low
power outputs."

The interval workouts he's talking about are around three minutes or a
bit more at high power.

Any thoughts about this?

JT,

A friend pointed me to this:

http://www.biketechreview.com/performance/base.htm

which agrees with my observation and intuition. Not exactly what you are
talking about, but I think the general idea is similar, namely, that
training higher in the aerobic zone is more important for "base" building,
and then endurance work can be done later, perhaps more even effectively.
Plus, it's way more time efficient. It has always seemed like the
adaptations needed for longer races come around pretty quickly (in a
relative sense) with a few weeks of longer rides, whereas increasing your
high-aerobic-zone power takes a lot longer.

Of course, like all training advice, YMMV!

Mark

I thought the theory behind "base training" was to stay below a certain
level of intensity to promote capillary development in the muscles. It
is *preparation* for high intensity training; it doesn't make you fast
by itself. In fact, if you are in decent shape when you start "base"
you may very well be slower at the end. This isn't a problem as long as
you've allowed enough time to build high intensity fitness before any
important races.

"Ron Ruff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I thought the theory behind "base training" was to stay below a certain
level of intensity to promote capillary development in the muscles.

Mike Walden's crazy idea rears its ugly head again...

Capillary neoformation occurs only in (near) muscle (fibers) that are
recruited during exercise, and muscle capillarization parallels VO2max. It
therefore logically follows that the best way to maximize capillary density
of muscle is to train at highER, but still aerobic, intensities, not by
keeping the intensity below some limit to prevent "destroying your
capillaries".

Andy Coggan

Higher meaning zone x?

If my LT is 172, are you talking higher should be 160, 150?

I generally try to keep it below 145 as much as possible, but I have
never been one to get bogged down in the science of it all...I'll leave
that for the experts.

172 Watts?????? I would stay at home if I were you.

I recommend to anyone to do high intensity training year round. This
includes short intervals (<2 min) and longer intervals (> or = LT).
The idea of doing only one type of training for long periods of time
has little physiologic basis. The human body was designed to adapt.
If you focus entirely on one thing, particularly "base" training for a
long period of time, other facets of "fitness" devolve. Moreover,
maximum endurance/aerobic gains only occur when you include high
intenisty work; those aerobic fast twitch fibers are hard to activate,
so pedalling easy won't do it.

While, I am a proponent of more miles early then adding more intensity
sessions as the early training period progresses (ie, a more
traditional approach), but I always have some intensity. However, not
everyone is able to train this way due to work + winter constraints, so
a more or less opposite approach is often needed.
Chris Harnish

No science, just results for me come from getting strong early so that I
have the ability to do high mileage at a high intensity. My theory is that
you must get fit to train properly. You can't give the required intensity
for the long duration if it is not there in the beginning of your base.

Ken @ Kauai

"Ron Ruff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I thought the theory behind "base training" was to stay below a certain
level of intensity to promote capillary development in the muscles. It
is *preparation* for high intensity training; it doesn't make you fast
by itself. In fact, if you are in decent shape when you start "base"
you may very well be slower at the end. This isn't a problem as long as
you've allowed enough time to build high intensity fitness before any
important races.

hah - yeah.

Power Meters, unless you have SRM are generally inconsistent at best in
Seattle weather. I'll stick with HR until I move to Aus or something.

Dude, if I lived in Hawaii, I'd have a hard time going easy too. In
Seattle, the rain is condusive to the long, slow miles.