Handlebar-mounted GPS

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:37:30 -0400, Dave Stallard <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Anybody have any recommendations on these models? Is the 8 MB limit
confining in terms of the fraction of the Earth's surface area it can
hold a map for? 😉 This is for day rides, rather than a cross the USA
trip. I'm told the 8 MB has better screen resolution than the 24 MB.

Dave

The screens are identical.

8MB will be fine if you only use it to ride, in the same places. If
you're like many GPS users, you'll probably end up using it for more
than cycling. loading maps via a serial connection takes a while, the
Vista will allow you to load a large area and maybe never have to futz
with it again. I'd go with the Vista (24 MB).

The only real advantage to the 8MB model is slightly better battery
life, as the compass and altimeter use some power. If you end up not
using the unit as much as you'd like, the 24 MB GPS will probably
fetch a greater percentage of the original cost in resale value..

I recently sold my 24MB eTrex Vista, after several years of
pleasurable use, in favor of a 56MB color GPS60CS. The 60CS is the
eighth unit I've owned.

Barry

Quoted message said:

Anybody have any recommendations on these models?

Yeah, I have a recommendation, but you won't like it. Don't get
them. They are fine units, for what they do. But think about it.
Do you really need GPS to ride a bike?

Only, I think, in the wilderness, do you intend to ride there?

I've never had a location problem that I couldn't resolve with a
map and a compass, and in most cases the compass was valuable but
not vital.

Your mileage may vary, objects in your mirror may be closer than
they appear, etc.

Look into land navigation and orienteering before you buy a GPS
unit, is my advice.

Also, read this, http://www.logicsouth.com/~lcoble/dir9/land_nav.htm

It is a lot cheaper than GPS and it uses no electricity. Even if
you do go with GPS it pays to know this.

In the days of sail, it was the mark of an officer that he knew how
to navigate, this was the class distinction, heh.

It would pay you to know how to navigate without GPS.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

In article <[email hidden]>,

Eric S. Sande said:

It would pay you to know how to navigate without GPS.

And there's a certain fanciful, romanciful mystique to
getting lost, sometimes.

I wish I could get a little lost and go on a li'l
exploration trek, but I'd have to go much further
afield than I have time or money for these days.

As a cyclocomputer addict, I'm not one to discourage
anyone from their choice of gadgetry, though. But if
I had the wherewithal to buy a really good GPS, I'd
be more inclined to put it towards a reasonably good
camera. And take pix of interesting places I might
stumble across. But that's just me.

good ride,
Tom

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Eric S. Sande said:

Quoted message said:

Anybody have any recommendations on these models?

Yeah, I have a recommendation, but you won't like it. Don't get
them. They are fine units, for what they do. But think about it.
Do you really need GPS to ride a bike?

No, not at all. This would just be for fun. And to figure out how to
get back on a main road after straying off into this intriguing little
side roads.

Dave

Eric S. Sande wrote in part:

<<

Quoted message said:

Anybody have any recommendations on these models?

Yeah, I have a recommendation, but you won't like it. Don't get
them. They are fine units, for what they do. But think about it.
Do you really need GPS to ride a bike?

Only, I think, in the wilderness, do you intend to ride there?

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And anyway it is illegal to ride a bike in the wilderness, as it is
defined by the federal government.

Also the OP should consider that the GPS numbers won't mean much
if the map is wrong, as maps often are.

Robert

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave Stallard said:

No, not at all. This would just be for fun.

In that case, go for it, and use it unwisely :-)

Fun is underestimatedly good.

- Tom

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On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 19:22:21 -0700, [email hidden] (Tom Keats)

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Eric S. Sande said:

It would pay you to know how to navigate without GPS.

And there's a certain fanciful, romanciful mystique to
getting lost, sometimes.

I wish I could get a little lost and go on a li'l
exploration trek, but I'd have to go much further
afield than I have time or money for these days.

As a cyclocomputer addict, I'm not one to discourage
anyone from their choice of gadgetry, though. But if
I had the wherewithal to buy a really good GPS, I'd
be more inclined to put it towards a reasonably good
camera. And take pix of interesting places I might
stumble across. But that's just me.

try being on the other side of the world, in a country where you can't
read the signs very well. you'll be glad you have that little GPS in
yoru pocket, even if you only use it for a sextant!

at one time you could get a cable for the Canon line of digital
cameras which would connect to a Garmin GPS for date/time/position
stamping.

Michael J. Klein
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 23:01:30 -0400, Dave Stallard <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Eric S. Sande said:

Quoted message said:

Anybody have any recommendations on these models?

Yeah, I have a recommendation, but you won't like it. Don't get
them. They are fine units, for what they do. But think about it.
Do you really need GPS to ride a bike?

No, not at all. This would just be for fun. And to figure out how to
get back on a main road after straying off into this intriguing little
side roads.

for some reason my news server didn't retain the original post....

if you are going to get a GPS, you should get one which allows you to
do whatever you may intend to do with it later on. the thing about
having a GPS is that you start to find other uses for it, some
recreational, and perhaps some professional. the GPS should have
sufficient memory to handle uploaded maps and also be universally
accepted as a standard. for these reasons I would recommend the
Garmin eTrex Vista (after owning and using Garmin GPS models
professionally for 10 years).

that being said, there are some PDA solutions which are also good.
however, i have never dropped my PDA from a moving vehicle, or taken
it on the high seas in a storm, both of which my Garmins have
experienced with no ill effects. the PDA itself is probably not
robust enough to handle some of the field uses.

whatever you decide to purchase, make sure that you have a computer
interface and the interconnect cable. this will make managing and
creating waypoints and routes a lot more convenient, not to mention
being able to back them up. i was on a tropical island off the SE
coast of Taiwan when my GPS decided to reset in my pocket because of
pressure on the particular button combination which resets the unit.
i lost all of my waypoint and route data collected to that point.

Michael J. Klein
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael J. Klein said:

try being on the other side of the world, in a country where you can't
read the signs very well.

Yeah. :-) That would be heavenly.

One of these days I'm /gonna/ do Iceland.
I feel I'm predilected to do so, when the
timing is right.

Quoted message said:

you'll be glad you have that little GPS in
yoru pocket, even if you only use it for a sextant!

I'd rather opportunely meet nice ppl on the roadside.
From what I've read, cycle touring can be as isolated
or as socially interactive as one wants.

I don't want no gizmos tearing me away from fellow ppl.

- Tom

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Tom Keats said:

Michael J. Klein said:

try being on the other side of the world, in a country where you can't
read the signs very well.

Yeah. :-) That would be heavenly.

One of these days I'm /gonna/ do Iceland.
I feel I'm predilected to do so, when the
timing is right.

Quoted message said:

you'll be glad you have that little GPS in
yoru pocket, even if you only use it for a sextant!

I'd rather opportunely meet nice ppl on the roadside.
From what I've read, cycle touring can be as isolated
or as socially interactive as one wants.

I don't want no gizmos tearing me away from fellow ppl.

In some places, your fellow ppl (not all ppl are nice) will steal your
stuff and leave you for dead at the side of the road/trail. In one such
case the only thing that saved my baby son was the fact that he was
twice as big as the fellow ppl and a lot angrier.

Not always, but sometimes it's better to stay away from fellow ppl.

--
Cheers,
Bev
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rule 18: Always tip your hat before striking a lady.

In article <[email hidden]>,

The Real Bev said:

In some places, your fellow ppl (not all ppl are nice) will steal your
stuff and leave you for dead at the side of the road/trail. In one such
case the only thing that saved my baby son was the fact that he was
twice as big as the fellow ppl and a lot angrier.

Not always, but sometimes it's better to stay away from fellow ppl.

In that case, it's better to stay home and watch TV,
and hang the bike up for good.

I hear it's possible to work one's way from NS to Iceland,
washing dishes etc on tramp freighters.

good ride,
Tom

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B a r r y said:

Quoted message said:

trip. I'm told the 8 MB has better screen resolution than the 24 MB.

The screens are identical.

Display resolution from one Etrex model to the next is not the same.

Example:
Etrex: 128 x 64
Etrex Venture: 288 x 160

See http://www.garmin.com/outdoor/compare.jsp for specs.

I've been happy with my Etrex Venture for mountain biking, recording
my track and creating the map as I ride. I haven't tried any map
downloading, nor any automated route creation with it (does it even
do automated routing?), so I don't know how good it would be for
pre-planned road rides with downloaded maps. At worst, you could (on
your PC) create waypoints at each turn and add them to a route.

The Etrex handlebar mount (works on all Etrex models) is secure and
robust.
--
Rick Onanian

(R15757) said:

Also the OP should consider that the GPS numbers won't mean much
if the map is wrong, as maps often are.

GPS numbers mean exactly where you are, regardless of maps.

That's a strength of GPS: if the map on which you've depended for
the last 100 miles is wrong, and it's paper, you're screwed. If said
map is in a GPS, as least you can easily get back to your last
accurate waypoint.
--
Rick Onanian

Eric S. Sande said:

Yeah, I have a recommendation, but you won't like it. Don't get
them. They are fine units, for what they do. But think about it.
Do you really need GPS to ride a bike?

I've never had a location problem that I couldn't resolve with a
map and a compass, and in most cases the compass was valuable but
not vital.

The purpose of GPS routing on roads is to save time; also, a GPS is
more compact than a pile of paper maps, and the Etrex series is more
robust than paper too -- works fine in heavy rain for example.

It's great for purposely getting lost and having an easy way back,
too.

Quoted message said:

It would pay you to know how to navigate without GPS.

It does indeed pay. It's nice to know how to (and be equipped to)
navigate both ways. Fail safe navigation beats getting lost when
your map blows away in the wind (or gets rained on, or it's the
wrong map) as well as it beats the broken GPS or the valley with no
signal.
--
Rick Onanian

Dave Stallard <[email hidden]> wrote in news:c6hehe$bk8e5$1@ID-
178518.news.uni-berlin.de:

Quoted message said:

I'm looking to get a GPS with map display for my bike, to mount on the
handlebars. This would be a unit that lets you download maps from the
Internet onto via USB connection. Garmin Etrex has an 8 MB and a 24 MB
model, the latter more expensive with altimeter and barometer, which I
don't really need (though the altimeter would be cute).

Hi, Dave. I've had the basic Garmin eTrex unit without mapping for a
while now and am very happy with it. Although it doesn't have mapping
capabilities I've found that just plugging in a few waypoints for
interesting places along my planned route is plenty to keep me oriented.
And not having a detailed map leaves lots of opportunity to explore
those "blank" areas on the track display (but without worrying about
getting lost). So, like me, maybe you'd be happy with a simpler, cheaper
unit.

Rick Onanian said:

Eric S. Sande said:

It would pay you to know how to navigate without GPS.

It does indeed pay. It's nice to know how to (and be equipped to)
navigate both ways. Fail safe navigation beats getting lost when
your map blows away in the wind (or gets rained on, or it's the
wrong map) as well as it beats the broken GPS or the valley with no
signal.

I sail a boat that has GPS on it, and I'd have to say
that the technology has done more to teach me proper
estimation of sea conditions for navigation purposes
(tides, drift, course over ground versus course made good,
bearing versus heading, etc.) than any reading of
navigation books.

I've played with a little hand held model on my bike but
in general have not really found it to be especially
useful, except in those situations where you get to the
point you have no clue as to which way is home.

That happens very rarely for my type of riding and
location. I usually end up getting home via an
"unanticipated route" and have yet to starve to death
from poor navigation.

SMH

Dave Stallard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking to get a GPS with map display for my bike, to mount on the
handlebars. This would be a unit that lets you download maps from the
Internet onto via USB connection. Garmin Etrex has an 8 MB and a 24 MB
model, the latter more expensive with altimeter and barometer, which I
don't really need (though the altimeter would be cute).

Anybody have any recommendations on these models? Is the 8 MB limit
confining in terms of the fraction of the Earth's surface area it can
hold a map for? 😉 This is for day rides, rather than a cross the USA
trip. I'm told the 8 MB has better screen resolution than the 24 MB.

Geez,

You seem to have brought out the luddite crowd. A quick search of the
group archives will show that I have in fact recommended that one do
primary reliance on paper maps and non-electronic navigation aids.
That said, I have a GPS and use it extensively while cycling. I use
it as and adjunct navigation tool, a database of information, a
recorder of trips, and other things.

As others have pointed out, one of the beauties of the GPS's you will
want to consider is they are waterproof, and easy to use in situations
where paper maps are problematic. Two years ago we were caught in a
horrendous storm in Italy,
in an area where roads were poorly signed, and with my friend getting
ill. We needed to get to town, fast, and the maze of umarked roads
was a problem. We ducked under an awning, consulted the paper map to
find the shortest route to the nearest town, and figured out the
landmarks and made sure we could follow the same on the GPS. Tucked
the map safely away in waterproof bag and followed
our electronic 'nose' into town without a hitch. Many times recently
we have done the same - easy to use and follow in conditions where
paper maps will become oatmeal in your hands.

And do not listen to those who think you should rely on 'ppl'. 'ppl'
may not be friendly, may not speak the same language, and often are
nowhere in sight when you need them. I was lost once in the Amazon
basin, probably 50-60 km from the nearest 'town'; if I waited to ask
'ppl' where go I would still be there - but probably not alive. And
with canopies going hundreds of feet above you, and just occasion
'trails' through the jungle regular navigation aids were not much
help. If I had a GPS I would have gotten out faster; as it was I had
to navigate by sound - using aural cues to locate the main river in
the area then follow it upstream to a 'village'. 'ppl', visual cues,
etc. were useless.

Another use of the GPS is finding things. I use a download map set
that has data about the areas, including location/address/phone number
of hotels, restaurants, car rental agencies, train stations, stores,
etc. We used that once, again in Italy, to locate a train station
when caught in an electrical storm. We used it just yesterday to
locate a place for dinner.

As far as a GPS unit, you want a couple of things. 1) you want to be
able to download maps, routes, data, and upload tracks. To do this
you need an interface that can be connected to a computer, and lots of
memory. Forget the idea of 'download maps from the Internet'. The
two major GPS companies have proprietary formats and to really get an
extensive map set you need to buy theirs. Figure that into the cost.
2) You want one that is rugged. My eTrex
Legend survived my (hit and run) accident that left me unconscious
with three missing teeth, two broken arms, and a lot less skin. There
is a piece of the case that got 'sanded' down by the road, but has not
missed a beat in the two years since the accident. 3) You want one
that is waterproof. 4) you want one that is relatively small. 4) you
want one that gets good reception. Finally, be willing to compromise.
The units with the most memory are either relatively large and/or not
all that suited to downloaded maps and/or not all that
rugged/waterproof. I thought of moving to the Garmin GPSMAP 60CS
recently; lots more memory, color, supposedly better reception; but
it is much larger than the eTrex Legend/Vista, and I cannot live with
something that big on my bars.

Good luck,

- rick

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:18:39 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

B a r r y said:

Quoted message said:

trip. I'm told the 8 MB has better screen resolution than the 24 MB.

The screens are identical.

Display resolution from one Etrex model to the next is not the same.

Example:
Etrex: 128 x 64
Etrex Venture: 288 x 160

Where did he ask about the yellow eTrex?

The OP stated that he thought the Venture has a better screen than the
Vista. They are identical. Why confuse him?

Barry

"Rick Warner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave Stallard <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm looking to get a GPS with map display for my bike, to mount on the
handlebars. This would be a unit that lets you download maps from the
Internet onto via USB connection. Garmin Etrex has an 8 MB and a 24 MB
model, the latter more expensive with altimeter and barometer, which I
don't really need (though the altimeter would be cute).

Anybody have any recommendations on these models? Is the 8 MB limit
confining in terms of the fraction of the Earth's surface area it can
hold a map for? 😉 This is for day rides, rather than a cross the USA
trip. I'm told the 8 MB has better screen resolution than the 24 MB.

Geez,

You seem to have brought out the luddite crowd. A quick search of the
group archives will show that I have in fact recommended that one do
primary reliance on paper maps and non-electronic navigation aids.
That said, I have a GPS and use it extensively while cycling. I use
it as and adjunct navigation tool, a database of information, a
recorder of trips, and other things.

As others have pointed out, one of the beauties of the GPS's you will
want to consider is they are waterproof, and easy to use in situations
where paper maps are problematic. Two years ago we were caught in a
horrendous storm in Italy,
in an area where roads were poorly signed, and with my friend getting
ill. We needed to get to town, fast, and the maze of umarked roads
was a problem. We ducked under an awning, consulted the paper map to
find the shortest route to the nearest town, and figured out the
landmarks and made sure we could follow the same on the GPS. Tucked
the map safely away in waterproof bag and followed
our electronic 'nose' into town without a hitch. Many times recently
we have done the same - easy to use and follow in conditions where
paper maps will become oatmeal in your hands.

And do not listen to those who think you should rely on 'ppl'. 'ppl'
may not be friendly, may not speak the same language, and often are
nowhere in sight when you need them. I was lost once in the Amazon
basin, probably 50-60 km from the nearest 'town'; if I waited to ask
'ppl' where go I would still be there - but probably not alive. And
with canopies going hundreds of feet above you, and just occasion
'trails' through the jungle regular navigation aids were not much
help. If I had a GPS I would have gotten out faster; as it was I had
to navigate by sound - using aural cues to locate the main river in
the area then follow it upstream to a 'village'. 'ppl', visual cues,
etc. were useless.

Another use of the GPS is finding things. I use a download map set
that has data about the areas, including location/address/phone number
of hotels, restaurants, car rental agencies, train stations, stores,
etc. We used that once, again in Italy, to locate a train station
when caught in an electrical storm. We used it just yesterday to
locate a place for dinner.

As far as a GPS unit, you want a couple of things. 1) you want to be
able to download maps, routes, data, and upload tracks. To do this
you need an interface that can be connected to a computer, and lots of
memory. Forget the idea of 'download maps from the Internet'. The
two major GPS companies have proprietary formats and to really get an
extensive map set you need to buy theirs. Figure that into the cost.
2) You want one that is rugged. My eTrex
Legend survived my (hit and run) accident that left me unconscious
with three missing teeth, two broken arms, and a lot less skin. There
is a piece of the case that got 'sanded' down by the road, but has not
missed a beat in the two years since the accident. 3) You want one
that is waterproof. 4) you want one that is relatively small. 4) you
want one that gets good reception. Finally, be willing to compromise.
The units with the most memory are either relatively large and/or not
all that suited to downloaded maps and/or not all that
rugged/waterproof. I thought of moving to the Garmin GPSMAP 60CS
recently; lots more memory, color, supposedly better reception; but
it is much larger than the eTrex Legend/Vista, and I cannot live with
something that big on my bars.

Good luck,

- rick

I use the Garmin GPS72. Not only is it waterproof but it floats. Handy for
my canoeing trips!
I use mine all the time for nighttime mountain bike rides in the bush, which
we have every Wednesday night. Also for our exploring trips on Saturday
afternoons which usually finish well after dark.

Marty