Handlebar Failure

Quoted message said:

Older bars were much more durable. Leaving aside the steel bars, I have old Cinelli bars on my
track bike, and they have no problems despite years of use. A newer set of road bars I had failed
-- fortunately less dramatically than the OP -- after only about 5000 miles of my use. Not that I
am skinny any more, but I'm not that bad.

It's not "older" bars that were more durable, but rather HEAVIER bars. 320 gram bars were pretty
common on high-end bikes back in the day, and it was common for them to bend rather than break in a
crash. Not that they didn't ever break... they did from time to time, but it wasn't something you
worried about, even after having them on a bike for a good many years.

The move to lighter-weight bars has probably been accompanied by changes in materials & processing
to produce something equally stiff & resistant to bending, but more likely to fail (rather than
break) when pushed to the limit. If they made 240 gram bars back in the day, they'd probably be more
failure prone than current bars of similar weight. And a 320 gram bar, made today, could probably
serve as tank armor if need be.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

[email hidden] (rick fetters) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>... [...]

Quoted message said:

If you can't find a friendly metallurgist then I will look at a small section cut from the
vicinity of the break for you. Ideally you require some fractography on the break as well. Email
me for additional information if you want.

Bob

Unfortunately the bars are out of my hands now. I just took the bike to the LBS who said that they
would need to send them off to Modolo if I wanted warranty replacement on them.

I assume that the only chance they will send them back to me is if they deem a warranty replacement
is not justified (possibly reasoning that there are scratches on the bars which indicate a crash).

I mentioned clamp overtightening and the LBS guy said they would have not over-tightened it because
they tighten stem clamps to 5Nm. I mentioned measuring an internal diameter of 25.5mm, he stated it
was a 3TTT stem and that all tehir stems are 25.8, and that there is no chance they would have over-
tightened it. This in turn brings up the point that assuming this is the case, then at the 6-week
service they either [1] tightened it to 5Nm to reduce the creaking, meaning it was not tightened to
spec to start with; or [2] used some other method to reduce the squeaking but lied and told me they
had just tightened the clamp (unlikely); or of course [3] over-tightened the clamp. (I didn't think
to mention this at the time, but I guess they could have just said "yeah, we didn't tighten to 5Nm
to start with, so what?"😉

I also mentioned the visible scratch on the failure line and he gave me a "I don't understand what
you are talking about" look, and proceeded to explain that it is impossible for a scratch to cause
this sort of catastrophic failure because the aluminium is annodised (*shrug*).

I asked them to un-clamp the bar for me which revealed a matching scratch on the other side. I
pointed this out, but he didn't play ball. I asked how deep a scratch would have to be before it
went through this annodising, and made sure to mention the words "fatigue" and "stress riser", but
again he said it's not possible for that to casue catastrophic faliure in aluminium of that
thickness (I didn't measure the thickness but they are 280gm bars). He also went as far as to say
that the only way you could cause a catastrophic failure was to do something like drill, cut, etc.
through the material.

They will send it to Modolo later today. We'll see what they have to say...

Additionally, he said that he couldn't see any great advantage of a front-loading stem, and that
Quill type front-loaders are not in abundance. (I had expected that my headset wouldn't be directly
compatible with the type of bars I see on most racing bikes.)

Dani

"asqui" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Glad you weren't hurt badly! I've had two nasty stem failures; they're

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fun either. I have no idea how I stayed upright for the second one, which failed during an
uphill sprint.

Stem failure? Ouch. I'm getting images of jagged stem remains meeting a sweaty chest... I'm glad
you managed to control it.

I've had one stem failure. It was a conventional quill stem that brake just above the headset.
Although it broke suddenly, it was not catastrophic since the bolt to the expander wedge held things
together. It was very much like a couple of rear axle failures I've had where the quick-release
held. I think there's much to be said for designs that "fail soft".

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately the bars are out of my hands now. I just took the bike to the LBS who said that they
would need to send them off to Modolo if I wanted warranty replacement on them.

Quoted message said:

I mentioned clamp overtightening and the LBS guy said they would have not over-tightened it because
they tighten stem clamps to 5Nm. I mentioned measuring an internal diameter of 25.5mm, he stated it
was a 3TTT stem and that all tehir stems are 25.8, and that there is no chance they would have over-
tightened it. This in turn brings up the point that assuming this is the case, then at the 6-week
service they either [1] tightened it to 5Nm to reduce the creaking, meaning it was not tightened to
spec to start with; or [2] used some other method to reduce the squeaking but lied and told me they
had just tightened the clamp (unlikely); or of course [3] over-tightened the clamp. (I didn't think
to mention this at the time, but I guess they could have just said "yeah, we didn't tighten to 5Nm
to start with, so what?"😉

I wonder if the problem is not related to using Modolo bars, which I have only seen in a 25.4 and
26.0 size in a TTT stem that is 25.8?
----------
Alex

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

-snip-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I mentioned clamp overtightening and the LBS guy said they would have not over-tightened it
because they tighten stem clamps to 5Nm. I mentioned measuring an internal diameter of 25.5mm, he
stated it was a 3TTT stem and that all tehir stems are 25.8, and that there is no chance they
would have over-tightened it. This in turn brings up the point that assuming this is the case,
then at the 6-week service they either [1] tightened it to 5Nm to reduce the creaking, meaning it
was not tightened to spec to start with; or [2] used some other method to reduce the squeaking but
lied and told me they had just tightened the clamp (unlikely); or of course [3] over-tightened the
clamp. (I didn't think to mention this at the time, but I guess they could have just said "yeah,
we didn't tighten to 5Nm to start with, so what?"😉

Alex Rodriguez said:

I wonder if the problem is not related to using Modolo bars, which I have only seen in a 25.4 and
26.0 size in a TTT stem that is 25.8?
----------

AFAIK, 25.8 and 26.0 bars/stems have never presented a fit problem. Anyone else?

Asqui, your LBS may have a point someplace in all that. If it were my place, I'd consider myself
lucky you were not maimed and give you a bar with an apology. And some tape too.

In 1986, our customer asked for a handlebar change on a new bike. Our employee did not properly
tighten the bolt. He crashed at the stoplight a half block away.

My partner was tearing up his check while I was prepping the next more expensive bike to give him.
We laughed about that after he left. Anyone who's been responsible for a human injury would do the
same and be glad it was only a bike.
--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Asqui, your LBS may have a point someplace in all that. If it were my place, I'd consider myself
lucky you were not maimed and give you a bar with an apology. And some tape too.

Well, maybe not an apology but they did replace it for free.

The LBS guy tried to call me yesterday and left a message. When I went in today to ask what he
wanted to speak to me about he asked how many times I'd fallen off the bike. I told him once only,
but on the right hand side. He said that it's important to check the situation after falls because
they can have quite an impact (pardon the pun) on aluminium handlebars.

Then he told me that Modolo replaced it out of goodwill, and that because they didn't have any bars
of that model in stock they fitted a similar model of 3TTT bars (THE). (I wanted to explore the
various bars options if they were going to do that, and possibly pay the difference for a more
expensive pair, but I was left with the impression that they would fit an exact replacement which
would be supplied by Modolo. Oh well. And I also forgot to tell them that I'd prefer to revert to
black tape because that bright blue didn't really match much to start with... oh well... I guess
it'll dull with use -- maybe I can even make it black in time 😉

Dani

Quoted message said:

A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Asqui, your LBS may have a point someplace in all that. If it were my place, I'd consider myself
lucky you were not maimed and give you a bar with an apology. And some tape too.

asqui said:

Well, maybe not an apology but they did replace it for free.

The LBS guy tried to call me yesterday and left a message. When I went in today to ask what he
wanted to speak to me about he asked how many times I'd fallen off the bike. I told him once only,
but on the right hand side. He said that it's important to check the situation after falls because
they can have quite an impact (pardon the pun) on aluminium handlebars.

Then he told me that Modolo replaced it out of goodwill, and that because they didn't have any
bars of that model in stock they fitted a similar model of 3TTT bars (THE). (I wanted to explore
the various bars options if they were going to do that, and possibly pay the difference for a more
expensive pair, but I was left with the impression that they would fit an exact replacement which
would be supplied by Modolo. Oh well. And I also forgot to tell them that I'd prefer to revert to
black tape because that bright blue didn't really match much to start with... oh well... I guess
it'll dull with use -- maybe I can even make it black in time 😉

Hats off to them for doing the decent thing.

And because some of this is unknowable ( defect? crash?) you might do something nice for them, too.
(customer referrals and beer are appreciated by management and staff respectively)

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Then he told me that Modolo replaced it out of goodwill, and that because they didn't have any
bars of that model in stock they fitted a similar model of 3TTT bars (THE). (I wanted to explore
the various bars options if they were going to do that, and possibly pay the difference for a more
expensive pair, but I was left with the impression that they would fit an exact replacement which
would be supplied by Modolo. Oh well.

In all likelihood the more expensive bars would have probably been more fragile. The THE is a
workhorse bar that should give you no grief (it's found on quite a few of the bikes we sell).

Actually, I'm still concerned about the stem on your bike. Seems to me that a stem with a wider
faceplate reduces the leverage on the bar where it's clamped, and the stem shown in the photo looked
pretty narrow. There are quite a few light, not-too-expensive stems with wide, removable faceplates.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

"asqui" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Asqui, your LBS may have a point someplace in all that. If it were my place, I'd consider myself
lucky you were not maimed and give you a bar with an apology. And some tape too.

Well, maybe not an apology but they did replace it for free.

The LBS guy tried to call me yesterday and left a message. When I went in today to ask what he
wanted to speak to me about he asked how many times I'd fallen off the bike. I told him once only,
but on the right hand side. He said that it's important to check the situation after falls because
they can have quite an impact (pardon the pun) on aluminium handlebars.

Then he told me that Modolo replaced it out of goodwill, and that because they didn't have any
bars of that model in stock they fitted a similar model of 3TTT bars (THE). (I wanted to explore
the various bars options if they were going to do that, and possibly pay the difference for a more
expensive pair, but I was left with the impression that they would fit an exact replacement which
would be supplied by Modolo. Oh well. And I also forgot to tell them that I'd prefer to revert to
black tape because that bright blue didn't really match much to start with... oh well... I guess
it'll dull with use -- maybe I can even make it black in time 😉

Dani

A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hats off to them for doing the decent thing.

And because some of this is unknowable ( defect? crash?) you might do something nice for them,
too. (customer referrals and beer are appreciated by management and staff respectively)

Heh, to be honest this shop has such a good rep already that I doubt I could find a cyclist in the
area who doesn't know of them. I remember when I first got into cycling I had about five different
people recommend that shop to me.

I was wondering actually if any of the guys from there kept up with usenet. To be honest I get the
impression that they are too busy to have the time for usenet. But who knows... it'd be amusing if
they were following this thread -- Hi guys! Love you 🙂

Dani / asqui

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In all likelihood the more expensive bars would have probably been more fragile. The THE is a
workhorse bar that should give you no grief (it's found on quite a few of the bikes we sell).

Thanks for the encouraging words. Are you at all familiar with the Modolo T-Poc? Could you draw me a
little picture of how the two compare? (Well, not literally a picture...) For example, do you have
any idea how much the THE weighs? Just out of interest... (I couldn't find the 3TTT website.)

Quoted message said:

Actually, I'm still concerned about the stem on your bike. Seems to me that a stem with a wider
faceplate reduces the leverage on the bar where it's clamped, and the stem shown in the photo
looked pretty narrow. There are quite a few light, not-too-expensive stems with wide, removable
faceplates.

Well, that's a possibility. Personally I'm more concerned about the lines that were scored on the
previous bars (seemingly by the edges of stem clamp). The LBS guy seemed remarkably unconcerned
about the fact that there was a scratch on the other side of the clamp, which perfectly matched the
scratch along which the failure occured. He didn't mention the clamp-width impact either.

*shrug* I think I'll just take my chances and keep a close eye on this one, try not to crash it, and
get it checked out after a couple of thousand miles.

Dani / asqui

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the encouraging words. Are you at all familiar with the Modolo T-Poc? Could you draw me
a little picture of how the two compare? (Well, not literally a picture...) For example, do you
have any idea how much the THE weighs? Just out of interest... (I couldn't find the 3TTT website.)

Sorry, but I haven't seen any T-Poc bars, so I can't make a comparison. Actually, right now I don't
even have a THE bar in stock, just THE stems!

The new website for 3TTT will be found at www.3TTT.com (but it's not yet up).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

"asqui" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In all likelihood the more expensive bars would have probably been more fragile. The THE is a
workhorse bar that should give you no grief (it's found on quite a few of the bikes we sell).

Thanks for the encouraging words. Are you at all familiar with the Modolo T-Poc? Could you draw me
a little picture of how the two compare? (Well, not literally a picture...) For example, do you
have any idea how much the THE weighs? Just out of interest... (I couldn't find the 3TTT website.)

Quoted message said:

Actually, I'm still concerned about the stem on your bike. Seems to me

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a stem with a wider faceplate reduces the leverage on the bar where it's clamped, and the stem
shown in the photo looked pretty narrow. There

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

quite a few light, not-too-expensive stems with wide, removable

faceplates.

Quoted message said:

Well, that's a possibility. Personally I'm more concerned about the lines that were scored on the
previous bars (seemingly by the edges of stem clamp). The LBS guy seemed remarkably unconcerned
about the fact that there was a scratch on the other side of the clamp, which perfectly matched
the scratch along which the failure occured. He didn't mention the clamp-width impact either.

*shrug* I think I'll just take my chances and keep a close eye on this one, try not to crash it,
and get it checked out after a couple of thousand miles.

Dani / asqui