Handle bars again

Gawnsoft [email hidden] opined the
following...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:37:35 +0100, Jon Senior wrote (more or less):
...
I've moved my hands all around the bars on my Giant at speeds in

Quoted message said:

excess of 35mph (I don't tend to do 40mph+ unless I know the road or can
see well ahead!) and never had any control problems.

'know the road /and/ can see well ahead', surely?

Yes visibility is important, but knowing the road means that you know
whether the approaching bend is a nice shallow one or a hairpin.
Besides, on a bike (Even one as heavy as my bent) I'm very unlikely to
hurt anyone but myself if I screw up! ;-)

Jon

Simon Brooke [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Jon, you need me to introduce you to some 2.1" mud grippers. Cycling on
the road is fun, granted; but cycling off-road is fun^2.

I hired a bike at Glentress about a month ago and have been desperate to
get back there since. The experience of rattling down a trail through
forest is definately something. I also fancy having a shot at some
longish (non-technical) XC stuff one day. The problem is one of not
enough bikes, not enough space to store said bikes and not enough time
to ride said bikes.

Despite all of that, I'm a roadie at heart and would much rather ride
tarmac for a day. Not least (As I'm now discovering) because while on
the bent I can admire the passing scenery without fear of neck-ache! :-)

Jon

Peter Clinch [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

For those who didn't follow the Edinburgh threads, said steep rocky
path[1] was pat of NCN1. Don't know what Sustrans were thinking when
they put that bit in...

I think I know that bit. Eddie led me along it on our first ride out
(The one where the weld failed!). I don't know that I could have managed
it at all, but attempting it on a bike where the rear fork was slowly
pulling away from the rest of the bike was definately a no-go.

Most of that cycle route (from memory) was definately out of bounds for
anything with narrow ( < 25mm) tyres. More like a cyclocross track!

Jon

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

DavidR david.nospam.r_a@t_cwcom.net said:

No, the height & reach is correct. It is that drop bars are not hand
shaped and they only offer two basic positions (the drop, of course, and
one other position somewhere between hood & stem, depending on setup).

Quoted message said:

There's nothing wrong with not liking drop bars. Lots of people don't.

Quite agree. I just disagree with the propaganda.

Quoted message said:

However, I think that it sounds like the reach is too long for you.

No, it is the shape.

"Jon Senior" <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote

Quoted message said:

DavidR david.nospam.r_a@t_cwcom.net opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No, the height & reach is correct. It is that drop bars are not hand
shaped and they only offer two basic positions (the drop, of course, and
one other position somewhere between hood & stem, depending on setup).

If you remember the last time this was aired by you, you'll also
presumably remember that considerably more positions were offered than
you suggest. IIRC there were at least seven.

I know the theory. I notice that some
riders I go out with don't seem to find them in practice; some ride with a
crick in the wrists and some have difficulty with braking. My personal
experience is clearly not unique, yet I seem to be the only one to voice it.

When people decide they have had enough, that seems ok by you. But when
someone asks "why is it default" or tries to analyse the problem (other by
further poinless adjustments) you get up tight. What you forget is that when
they give up there are not 7 positions but actually zero.

Quoted message said:

Since we're discussing
positions... flat bars offer only one.

So drop bars also offer the drop. Perhaps that is why I sometimes use a bike
with drop bars.

Quoted message said:

Which reminds me. If you dislike them so much, why haven't you put flat
bars on your two drop-equipped bikes!

The second bike is one I rescued between
someone's garage and the tip. Yes, I my first thoughts were that proper
handlebars would turn it into quite a nice utility bike. But it is handy as
further evidence for prodding the newsgroup🙂 Alternatively I could just
complete its journey to the original destination.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The trouble is 9 out 10 cyclists say it is not head banging. Nobody puts
foward any plausible reason why hands and bars ought to work in perfect
harmony.

Because there are a multitude of positions available and moving between
them allows you to alter your whole body position thus adjusting
yourself according to the conditions, and stretching any muscles that
might have become stiff due to a long period in the saddle. Of course...
you could just lie back and take the weight off your hands.

OK, that's an opinion of yours and a few friends.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A few weeks ago I was riding (on drop
bars) WITH SOMEONE THAT IS GENUINELY COMFORTABLE WITH THEM.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It eventually came to the "I don't understand why they are promoted for
leisure riding" question. He thought for a moment and suggested it was
probably a cultural thing - which rather echoed my thinking.

And how many times have you broached the subject and had people suggest
that it was due to the comfort offered? I can think of at least two that
we've all witnessed. Why didn't you mention this anecdote as well?

Perhaps you should read rather than froth at the mouth. I capitalised it so
you don't miss it a second time.

Quoted message said:

You clearly don't like drops. That's absolutely fine, but to belittle
them, and anyone that uses them is both arrogant and stupid.

Drop bars don't have feelings and I can say what I like about them. If you
get upset because someone disagrees with the propaganda, then
tough.

Quoted message said:

To do so
twice, offering the same daft opinions as the previous time is more so.

Opinion that claims drop bars have 7 usable positions seems pretty
daft to me. Isn't that what newsgroups are about? Otherwise we would never
have epic threads on helmets and speed cameras. Or is this particular
subject a particular sacred cow? It certainly seems like it.

********************************************

Quoted message said:

Shimmy can occur at any speed and is generally of unknown origin.

It is the second time for me. The first time was on a fairly flexible bike
and was at the frame's resonant frequency which didn't alter its
trajectory. This one was on a stiff, responsive bike that caused a violent
weave.

Quoted message said:

I've moved my hands all around the bars on my Giant at speeds in
excess of 35mph (I don't tend to do 40mph+ unless I know the road or can
see well ahead!) and never had any control problems. Are you gripping to
tight?

It was a hill I had taken uneventfully another time.

Moving hands did not cause it - braking did. It was necessary to move the
hands around to find a way of getting out of it.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps the thrill of the speed was making you quiver with
excitement

I was quivering for a while afterwards 🙁

DavidR david.nospam.r_a@t_cwcom.net opined the following...

Quoted message said:

I know the theory. I notice that some
riders I go out with don't seem to find them in practice; some ride with a
crick in the wrists and some have difficulty with braking. My personal
experience is clearly not unique, yet I seem to be the only one to voice it.

I have ridden with many people on club runs and long rides where they've
merrily moved their hands around the bars and had no difficulty with
braking.

Quoted message said:

When people decide they have had enough, that seems ok by you. But when
someone asks "why is it default" or tries to analyse the problem (other by
further poinless adjustments) you get up tight. What you forget is that when
they give up there are not 7 positions but actually zero.

Because you don't ask "why is it default", you ask "why is such a stupid
thing default". The reason that I get up tight about it comes down to
the manner in which you ask the question and the assumptions from which
you start. You routinely state personal opinion as fact and don't seem
to realise what you're doing.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Since we're discussing
positions... flat bars offer only one.

So drop bars also offer the drop. Perhaps that is why I sometimes use a bike
with drop bars.

But you don't like them...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Which reminds me. If you dislike them so much, why haven't you put flat
bars on your two drop-equipped bikes!

The second bike is one I rescued between
someone's garage and the tip. Yes, I my first thoughts were that proper
handlebars would turn it into quite a nice utility bike. But it is handy as
further evidence for prodding the newsgroup🙂 Alternatively I could just
complete its journey to the original destination.

See above for an explanation of why "proper handlebars" is bad choice of
phrase!

Given that the aforementioned tip (Or a nearby skip, bike shop etc)
could easily supply a set of dirt cheap flat bars (EBC offer some steel
ones for about £2.50!), if the bike is worth keeping at all, swap the
bars. That way you'll be happier on it.

Quoted message said:

OK, that's an opinion of yours and a few friends.

Was this WRT to the additional comfort of lying down, or to the
multitude of positions? If it's the former... you're probably right. If
it's the latter then you could just google for the previous discussion
to find out what they are. I can think of four straight away that I use
routinely on short hops around town, and on long rides I often shuffle
around the bits between them.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps you should read rather than froth at the mouth. I capitalised it so
you don't miss it a second time.

And the same accusation could be levelled at you. I was asking why it
was that that particular anecdote beared mentioning, while the anecdotal
experience of the others here didn't. Or to put it another way... so
what?

Quoted message said:

Drop bars don't have feelings and I can say what I like about them.

Now you're just being daft... of course they have feelings! :-)

Quoted message said:

If you
get upset because someone disagrees with the propaganda, then
tough.

No. I get upset when someone states an opinion as fact, and rubbishes
something that the rest of us are more than happy with. Since you are
clearly having problems, I'll repeat the argument.

You dislike drops.
I (And many others here) like drops.
I do not put flats on my bikes because I prefer drops.
I do not like flats, but I recognise that others do, and that they have
their place.
You have twice stated that drops are rubbish (Or words to that effect).

Do you still not understand what is at issue here?

Quoted message said:

Opinion that claims drop bars have 7 usable positions seems pretty
daft to me.

Would that be because you don't understand what those positions are? Or
just because you don't like drop bars? If it's the former, we might be
able to sort out some photos to help.

Quoted message said:

Isn't that what newsgroups are about?

Endless repetion of the same facts to people who are more than willing
to ignore them? Certainly looks it! :-)

Quoted message said:

Otherwise we would never
have epic threads on helmets and speed cameras. Or is this particular
subject a particular sacred cow? It certainly seems like it.

No. But you've not actually offered anything in the way of argument
against drop bars beyond the fact that you don't like them.

Quoted message said:

It was a hill I had taken uneventfully another time.

Moving hands did not cause it - braking did. It was necessary to move the
hands around to find a way of getting out of it.

So what did this have to do with the drops? And given that you were
moving around to get rid of it, how would flat bars have helped in the
same circumstances?

Quoted message said:

I was quivering for a while afterwards 🙁

I bet. It wasn't until I rode my mum's bike that I appreciated why she
doesn't like going down hills at more than 15mph.

Jon

in message <[email hidden]>, DavidR

('david.nospam.r_a@t_cwcom.net') said:

When people decide they have had enough, that seems ok by you. But
when someone asks "why is it default" or tries to analyse the problem

If you don't like 'em you don't like 'em and there's no point us trying
to persuade you. I know people who don't like 'em. It isn't a sin. But
they're the default on road bikes of types intended to be ridden for
extended periods because most people who ride for extended periods do
like 'em.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
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Jon Senior <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Shimmy can occur at any speed and is generally of unknown origin. I'm
experienced it twice in my life.

I had a particularly nasty episode in the Yorkshire Wolds once -
turned out to be an incorrectly-dished rear wheel. Trouble was, I
didn't realise the dishing was wrong (7sp. on an 8sp. wheel) until
said wheel was transferred to a frame with vertical rather than
horizontal dropouts (at which point it was found to foul the brakes in
a big way!). On the latter frame, it fitted in without any sign of a
problem.

David E. Belcher

DavidR said:

OK, that's an opinion of yours and a few friends.

And most of the people who buy the de-facto standard design for touring
bikes, which are designed with long term comfort in mind without
compromising performance too much. There's nothing wrong with disliking
drop bars, but to go on like it's all a conspiracy of people who are
kidding themselves is taking things a bit far, I'd say.

If you really want hand comfort get a recumbent, and when you realise
what a terrible conspiracy of ignorance /saddles/ are you'll *really*
have something to moan about! ;-/

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

in message <[email hidden]>, Jon Senior

jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk ('') said:

DavidR david.nospam.r_a@t_cwcom.net opined the following...

Quoted message said:

If you
get upset because someone disagrees with the propaganda, then
tough.

No. I get upset when someone states an opinion as fact, and rubbishes
something that the rest of us are more than happy with. Since you are
clearly having problems, I'll repeat the argument.

You dislike drops.
I (And many others here) like drops.
I do not put flats on my bikes because I prefer drops.
I do not like flats, but I recognise that others do, and that they
have their place.
You have twice stated that drops are rubbish (Or words to that
effect).

Both flats and drops have their place. Flats are much better for
manouverability at low speed. Drops are much better for tucking down
out of the wind, and also for wrist comfort on long rides. 90% of the
time there isn't much difference and either system does equally well.

To claim that anyone who is arguing the merits of either is using (or is
being suckered by) propaganda is absurd. If you don't like either
system, fine, don't use it, but equally don't try to teach your
grandmother.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; It appears that /dev/null is a conforming XSL processor.

I have to say, being the person who's found braking a little difficult
at times with drops, that it's not the drops per se that I think are the
root cause but the fact that the bike had too long a reach, and that I
have small hands.

Having ridden a straight-barred bike as a youngster, I found it
uncomfortable for anything more than half an hour - now, it was quite a
few years ago so I can't say if it could have been improved at all to
stop that. I've always wanted a 'proper' racing style bike, never had
one as a kid, so when I got my current bike it was the bike of my dreams
(and, to be honest, it still is, if I discount the lusting after a
darthmobile).

But, despite the problems I've had getting the bike to fit (my fault,
shouldn't have guestimated that the smallest size would actually fit me
properly) - or me to fit bike, I know one thing - the drops are right
for the sort of cycling I'm doing, and I don't think flat bars would
suit me so much.

I like being able to move my hands around on them, and as I think I've
said before, I've discovered at least 5 positions now, and that's not
even venturing down onto the drops. I can understand with bigger hands
there may be fewer places, but then I've changed the bars to a smaller
set to suit my shorter arms/smaller hands/narrower shoulders, so to some
extent I'd be surprised if you couldn't manage at least 4 + whatever are
available down on the drops.

While I'm aware that some might presume I'm retaining drops and the
assosciated STI gubbins just to retain the 'its a racing bike' look, I
can assure you that if I truly thought I would be happier with flat
bars, they'd already have been swapped over.

It was clear that I needed to give it time for me to get used to riding
a bike so wildly different both in physical layout/position and
handling/twitchyness - but also obvious that while some changes were
needed to correct the over-long stretch along the top tube/stem, I very
quickly grew to like the flexibility of the drop bars.

And, FWIW, it's too much hassle to prise my bike out of the flat/down
the stairs etc for short distance rides, and especially around here
where the steep hills and high traffic densities coupled with nasty
driver attitudes make it less than appealing. This means most of my
rides now tend to be the 40+ mile types, rather than the 1-10milers. If
I was doing up to 10 miles, then I might now have flats on my bike, but
I'm not, so they don't seem right *for me* for the sort of distances I'm
doing.

And they've been a godsend when I've been returning home after long
rides, and found the wind against me. Even without going down on the
drops they allow me to tuck myself down and lower the wind resistance to
a marked degree.

I do think that some are right for some people doing some sorts of
cycling, and others are right for other people doing other sorts of
cycling. And quite often, different people doing the same sort of
cycling will get on better with one or the other. I don't think there's
any problem with that - but I *can* see (and I talk from personal
experience) that it can take a while and involve quite a lot of tweaks
to get drop bars to be right for an individual - which is why I
commented on whether the reach was too long etc.

Instinct told me I wanted my bars higher. What it didn't tell me was
that the problem was actually that they were too far away. Bringing the
bars higher helped reduce the reach *slightly*, which lead to a big
difference in the way the bike felt. It took going to a bike fitting
shop to actually get the reach problem mostly sorted (given a new frame
wasn't feasible, 100% sorted wasn't going to happen!) - and it's now a
dream to ride (though I still have some mental hurdles to get over).

And given the wildly exaggerated position bikes seem to come with these
days ([censored] in air, hands by front axle) - yes that's fine for the
experienced cyclist, but I'm not convinced it's necessarily right for
all of them. That doesn't mean that drop bars are wrong, though - I
tend to think it's more a function of the short stem/long reach on it
not being as appropriate as it might be.

And it was that sort of position I had in mind (that bikes come with by
default when they have drops) that I was thinking might have been the
cause of your problems with them.

Enough waffling now, I'm back to lurk in the corner.

--

Velvet

Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Jon Senior

jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk ('') said:

Why do it at all? I don't like big knobbly tyres, being a road
cyclist. Thus I don't have two bikes equipped with 23mm slicks and a
third with 2.5" mud-grippers.

Jon, you need me to introduce you to some 2.1" mud grippers. Cycling on
the road is fun, granted; but cycling off-road is fun^2.

Who said huge tyres were necessary for off-road fun? Some of us enjoy
ourselves [1] just as much on tyres a little over 1" - and using drop
handlebars too ;-)

David E. Belcher

[1] Temporarily not enjoying myself, but see post re. my low-budget
Trek 800 restoration, etc.

David E. Belcher said:

Who said huge tyres were necessary for off-road fun? Some of us enjoy
ourselves [1] just as much on tyres a little over 1"

Thus making the implication that you need /2/ tyres! ;-) My Muni just
has the 1 and is great fun! But another case in point that while
contriving to make life difficult for oneself can actually be enjoyable,
it isn't necessarily the best way to get from A to B...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

DavidR said:

OK, that's an opinion of yours and a few friends.

And most of the people who buy the de-facto standard design for touring
bikes, which are designed with long term comfort in mind without
compromising performance too much. There's nothing wrong with disliking
drop bars, but to go on like it's all a conspiracy of people who are
kidding themselves is taking things a bit far, I'd say.

Strictly, propaganda implies conspiracy so may be too strong but I can't
think of a better one. I don't think there is a conspiracy because nobody
has anything to gain. The fans certainly oversell the concept.

Quoted message said:

If you really want hand comfort get a recumbent, and when you realise

Never tried it but I don't doubt it.

Quoted message said:

what a terrible conspiracy of ignorance /saddles/ are you'll *really*
have something to moan about! ;-/

Much of it is about fashion too. Such as putting knobbly tyres on bikes
that are never going to see soft mud.

"Jon Senior" <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote
DavidR david.nospam.r_a@t_cwcom.net opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I know the theory. I notice that some riders I go out with don't seem to
find them in practice; some ride with a crick in the wrists and some have
difficulty with braking. My personal experience is clearly not unique, yet
I seem to be the only one to voice it.

Quoted message said:

I have ridden with many people on club runs and long rides where they've
merrily moved their hands around the bars and had no difficulty with
braking.

I said it was an impossibility for everyone...?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When people decide they have had enough, that seems ok by you. But when
someone asks "why is it default" or tries to analyse the problem (other
by further poinless adjustments) you get up tight. What you forget is that
when they give up there are not 7 positions but actually zero.

Quoted message said:

Because you don't ask "why is it default", you ask "why is such a stupid
thing default".

When I responded to the OP that said his wife wanted to change I said
// I also have two drop bar bikes. If I do long distances on them I get
neck, back & wrist ache. I don't understand why they are promoted for
leisure riding.// How does that say 'stupid'?

You think a culture (for want of a better word) that sold her
something unsuitable isn't stupid? Particularly as it needs extra skills and
dexterity to use at all, let alone effectively.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

OK, that's an opinion of yours and a few friends.

Quoted message said:

Was this WRT to the additional comfort of lying down, or to the

Missed the reference to lying down

Quoted message said:

multitude of positions? If it's the former... you're probably right. If
it's the latter then you could just google for the previous discussion
to find out what they are. I can think of four straight away that I use
routinely on short hops around town, and on long rides I often shuffle
around the bits between them.

So you can use four or more? Good for you.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Drop bars don't have feelings and I can say what I like about them.

Quoted message said:

Now you're just being daft... of course they have feelings! :-)

Perhaps I had better go into the garage and apologise. Maybe I won't get a
shimmy next time.

Quoted message said:

You dislike drops.
I (And many others here) like drops.
I do not put flats on my bikes because I prefer drops.
I do not like flats, but I recognise that others do, and that they have
their place.
You have twice stated that drops are rubbish (Or words to that effect).

Yes to all. So you are free to continue using them. Did I ever suggest you
shouldn't?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Opinion that claims drop bars have 7 usable positions seems pretty
daft to me.

Quoted message said:

Would that be because you don't understand what those positions are? Or
just because you don't like drop bars? If it's the former, we might be
able to sort out some photos to help.

Not necessary. I can prop my bike up and move my hands around. Doesn't
count.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It was a hill I had taken uneventfully another time.

Quoted message said:

Moving hands did not cause it - braking did. It was necessary to move the
hands around to find a way of getting out of it.

Quoted message said:

So what did this have to do with the drops?

I have the hypothesis that I was left hand on top bearing weight and right
hand down to brake. The actions in getting there did not cause it but the
assymetry may have done so when I put the brake on, ie, braking load on my
body pushed one arm slightly forward.

Quoted message said:

And given that you were
moving around to get rid of it,

....the need to move back to balanced hand positiions.

Peter Clinch said:

And most of the people who buy the de-facto standard design for touring
bikes, which are designed with long term comfort in mind without
compromising performance too much.

De facto standards aside, part of the problem is that lots of people
seem only too happy to go to the bike shop with the idea of getting
something for leisure riding and then come away with a bike that's more
suited to long-distance touring, or road racing, or cyclocross, or
whatever. Sometimes that's their own stupid fault, sometimes it's the
fault of the salesperson.

But of course that doesn't mean there's anything "wrong" with the bike
or any of its components, just that it's not the /appropriate/ bike for
/that person/ and their needs. To suggest that people end up with
unsuitable handlebars on their bike through some kind of conspiracy to
make them suffer is utterly ludicrous.

And to suggest that those of us who say we /love/ drop handlebars, have
no problem braking with them and find them really comfortable even on
long rides, are really just gritting our teeth and suffering through it
in order to support the conspiracy... well, it's just bonkers.

d.

DavidR david.nospam.r_a@t_cwcom.net opined the following...

Quoted message said:

I said it was an impossibility for everyone...?

No. But have implied in as much in the past and continue to do so now
(Albeit a little less vehemously).

Quoted message said:

When I responded to the OP that said his wife wanted to change I said
// I also have two drop bar bikes. If I do long distances on them I get
neck, back & wrist ache. I don't understand why they are promoted for
leisure riding.// How does that say 'stupid'?

"I don't understand why they are promoted for leisure riding." - As
suggested in a previous thread, and repeated for clarity in this one, is
that for most people the multitude of positions that they offer make
them _very_ suitable for leisure riding.

Quoted message said:

You think a culture (for want of a better word) that sold her
something unsuitable isn't stupid?

Only if it was unsuitable. Drops are not necessarily unsuitable. <Re-
reads original post> And the OP does not say that either.

Quoted message said:

Particularly as it needs extra skills and
dexterity to use at all, let alone effectively.

Now you're just getting silly. a) They're only "extra" skills if you
learnt on a flat barred bike. b) Unless you have a learning difficulty,
they take little time to learn. c) The additional dexterity is well
within the bounds of a normal, healthy individual.

If you consider dexterity to be a problem WRT drops, this may suggest a
reason why you dislike them.

Quoted message said:

Missed the reference to lying down

"Of course... you could just lie back and take the weight off your
hands." If your wrists are uncomfortable, stop leaning on them. :-)

Quoted message said:

So you can use four or more? Good for you.

I can indeed. As can many others. Thus for many (The impression of urc
is "most"😉 drop bars are perfectly suited to leisure riding.

Quoted message said:

Yes to all. So you are free to continue using them. Did I ever suggest you
shouldn't?

Everytime you criticise drops when the problem is that you don't like
them!

Quoted message said:

Not necessary. I can prop my bike up and move my hands around. Doesn't
count.

Why not?

Quoted message said:

I have the hypothesis that I was left hand on top bearing weight and right
hand down to brake. The actions in getting there did not cause it but the
assymetry may have done so when I put the brake on, ie, braking load on my
body pushed one arm slightly forward.

So the shimmy was to do with weight imbalance on the bars while braking,
not because you were riding drops.

Jon

Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

David E. Belcher said:

Who said huge tyres were necessary for off-road fun? Some of us enjoy
ourselves [1] just as much on tyres a little over 1"

Thus making the implication that you need /2/ tyres! ;-) My Muni just
has the 1 and is great fun!

Off-road unicycle? You're a braver man than I am! It'd be a doddle to
carry in cyclo-cross, mind ;-)

David E. Belcher

David E. Belcher said:

Off-road unicycle?

If an MTB is a mountain bike, think about why a Muni is called what it is...

Quoted message said:

You're a braver man than I am! It'd be a doddle to carry in cyclo-cross, mind ;-)

I'm pretty [censored] on mine as far as technical ability goes, to be honest,
but in the Polaris cycle orienteering weekens the top unicycle teams
come something like halfway down the field. I think that's at least in
part because they're /much/ easier on the sections when cycling
/anything/ is a no-no...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

davek said:

And to suggest that those of us who say we /love/ drop handlebars, have
no problem braking with them and find them really comfortable even on
long rides, are really just gritting our teeth and suffering through it
in order to support the conspiracy... well, it's just bonkers.

d.

Indeed. Not even I, who love them, find them really comfy even on long
rides, and accepts she has the occasional problem (which is
worked-around!) braking with them, am doing it to support the conspiracy ;-)

I'm doing it cos I prefer using them to straights (as evidenced by my
reluctance to replace with straights in previous posts *grin*).

--

Velvet