Hamstrings, hello where are you?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by rikusg
Howzit,

Anyone have any ideas on focusing hamstrings during training on the bike?

My physio tells me my hamstrings are way too weak and I need to change my pedalling technique. At the moment I am dropping my heel at the top of the stroke and then doing a flick right at the bottom. Bit like ankling, but not quite as severe.

I have tried the "scrape the mud" things when pedalling, but find it hard going. Especially when I up the cadence > 90. Maybe moving the saddle forward/backward, higher/lower? I had my self re-measured and could lift the saddle a centimetre or 2.

Any ideas?

Thanks

R

Hamstrings are weird muscles and probably the hardest to isolate. Seems that they don't like to work like the rest either. I had the same problem you do...I was born with "underdeveloped" hamstrings. I found 2 things to help tremendously. The first is weightlifting. You can do the hamstring curls, and they do help, however I have found nothing better than wide-stance deep squats (I emphasize deep because your hams will not be isolated otherwise). Don't try to pile a bunch of weight on either, or your quads tend to take over, and you will probably hurt your knees. I actually tend to hang around 100-140 lbs, and I do around 8 sets of 10-15. Another is to make sure you pedal with your knees as close together as possible. Actually all of these probably develop your butt and inner thighs a little more than hams.

Try to get the hams working when pulling up a hill, seated, at a low cadence (eg, 60). As cadence slows and it's difficult to keep turning over the crank, concentrate on kicking back and up with your heel from the bottom of the stroke. You should feel your hamstrings contract then, giving your quads an easier load.

after 6 weeks of one-leg pedaling on the trainer(60rpm, 60watts), for about 40min a week each leg, i noticed my hamstrings got bigger.
one leg pedaling seems to be the best way to develope hamtrings.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by memphiscyclist
Hamstrings are weird muscles and probably the hardest to isolate. Seems that they don't like to work like the rest either. I had the same problem you do...I was born with "underdeveloped" hamstrings. I found 2 things to help tremendously. The first is weightlifting. You can do the hamstring curls, and they do help, however I have found nothing better than wide-stance deep squats (I emphasize deep because your hams will not be isolated otherwise). Don't try to pile a bunch of weight on either, or your quads tend to take over, and you will probably hurt your knees. I actually tend to hang around 100-140 lbs, and I do around 8 sets of 10-15. Another is to make sure you pedal with your knees as close together as possible. Actually all of these probably develop your butt and inner thighs a little more than hams.

Good idea about the squats. I like them with my feet shoulder width apart. Go slow up and down and do a 10 sec. hold at the bottom. While there, try to rock your weight back on your heels and lift your toes. That'll really activate the hams and glutes. Enjoy!

Tim

I don't think the bike is going to do much for hammy strength.

Do a web search on glute/ham raises. There are cheap ways of doing these, and they are fantastic for hammy development.

isolating the hamstrings is not easy and not all that advisable so avoid exercises like lying leg curls

if you need to develop hamstring strength try doing squats, deadlift and good mornings or ask your physio for advice

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Duckwah
if you need to develop hamstring strength try doing squats, deadlift and good mornings or ask your physio for advice

Dumb question time... what are "good mornings" (exercise-wise)?

good mornings are an excellent but underutilised exercise because they are a bit tricky to do correctly and bodybuilders don't do them cause its not a bragging ex

instead of trying to describe it here is a link

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Hamstrings/BBGoodMorning.html

one thing to change from that description is that its better to bend the knees just a little bit

Oh, so that's what they're called (not that I do 'em 😉). Thanks!

I've been squatting for several years but couldn't really tell you if it has been an advantage to my cycling or not. My gut feeling is that I do have an advantage on the hills, given my bodyweight is a little high for a cyclist yet I sprint up medium hills with no problems.
These days I prefer high rep squats up to about 20 reps and deep down.
One very good exercise for the hamstrings is the stiff-legged deadlift done on a bench. More than anything, this stretches the hamstrings like nothing else I know. I was surprised to find that my hamstrings got really sore from the exercise yet I only had 20 k.g. on the bar since my intention had been to rehabiliate my lower back. Light stiff-legged deadlifts should condition your lower back and strengthen the hamstrings as well.
Simply place the bar across a bench, stand on the bench, keep your legs straight and head and torso up. Bend and raise the bar upwards to your waist, using your lower back as a fulcrum. 12 reps per set will have your hamstrings a little sore in the morning, far more so than with the leg-curl.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by memphiscyclist
Hamstrings are weird muscles and probably the hardest to isolate. Seems that they don't like to work like the rest either. I had the same problem you do...I was born with "underdeveloped" hamstrings. I found 2 things to help tremendously. The first is weightlifting. You can do the hamstring curls, and they do help, however I have found nothing better than wide-stance deep squats (I emphasize deep because your hams will not be isolated otherwise). Don't try to pile a bunch of weight on either, or your quads tend to take over, and you will probably hurt your knees. I actually tend to hang around 100-140 lbs, and I do around 8 sets of 10-15. Another is to make sure you pedal with your knees as close together as possible. Actually all of these probably develop your butt and inner thighs a little more than hams.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Carrera

One very good exercise for the hamstrings is the stiff-legged deadlift done on a bench. More than anything, this stretches the hamstrings like nothing else I know. I was surprised to find that my hamstrings got really sore from the exercise yet I only had 20 k.g. on the bar since my intention had been to rehabiliate my lower back. Light stiff-legged deadlifts should condition your lower back and strengthen the hamstrings as well.
Simply place the bar across a bench, stand on the bench, keep your legs straight and head and torso up. Bend and raise the bar upwards to your waist, using your lower back as a fulcrum. 12 reps per set will have your hamstrings a little sore in the morning, far more so than with the leg-curl.

Don't ever do what is described above. That is injury just waiting to happen. Think about it -- it's exactly what you are NOT supposed to do when lifting a weight.

Stiff-leg deadlifts are a fine lift -- for those with bulletproof backs. But keeping your legs straight (a slight bend is preferred) and extending the range of motion by doing them from a bench is bad form and advice. Most important is limiting your range of motion to that where you can maintain the natural arch in your lower back. Even better, try to do them with your chest puffed out like a keystone cop. Any deeper makes the movement that much more stressful on your discs. Want to rupture a disc? Then go ahead and do them. Do some web searched on it -- don't take my word for it. Powerlifters and bodybuilders love them. And many get injured as well. Keep in mind those boys are genetic freaks, too, with mighty robust joints and spines, etc.

From my experience bending your knees slightly helps to isolate hamstrings....

Otherwise you tend to be focusing on stretching tendons down the back of your knees.

I do a hamstring stretch where my knee is bent & hips are at right angle. I put my foot up on a chair - knee slightly bent & drag my foot back. seems to isolate nicely.

"And many get injured as well. Keep in mind those boys are genetic freaks, too, with mighty robust joints and spines, etc."

Exactly the same can be said for cycling. People like Indurain and Armstrong are also genetic freaks (in my opinion).

I haven't suffered any really serious injury so far but past experiences have taught me that's it's really important to warm up before any exercise. This is something I wish I had done more of in the past.

As for the stiff-legged deadlifts, I only started doing them recently in the hope they may help a minor back injury I have. I noticed my hams got sore as well - which surprised me. All I can say is I'll let you all know if this exercise produces any benefit or not. If I find any negative consequences, I'll abort the exercise in my present program.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Aztec
Don't ever do what is described above. That is injury just waiting to happen. Think about it -- it's exactly what you are NOT supposed to do when lifting a weight.

Stiff-leg deadlifts are a fine lift -- for those with bulletproof backs. But keeping your legs straight (a slight bend is preferred) and extending the range of motion by doing them from a bench is bad form and advice. Most important is limiting your range of motion to that where you can maintain the natural arch in your lower back. Even better, try to do them with your chest puffed out like a keystone cop. Any deeper makes the movement that much more stressful on your discs. Want to rupture a disc? Then go ahead and do them. Do some web searched on it -- don't take my word for it. Powerlifters and bodybuilders love them. And many get injured as well. Keep in mind those boys are genetic freaks, too, with mighty robust joints and spines, etc.

I'd have to say that i'd never recommend stiff leg deadlifts done in the manner described above unless the trainee was very good wtih technique and had a super strong back

the good morning is very similar and achieves the same results

just start light and stay strict

Stiff Leg Deadlifts are the Ultimate Hamstring excercise if done properly.

Stand on a wooden block or 8" riser, Keep knees straight, bend over forward at the waist, grasp bar, guide it back up to the start position (arms at sides) keep the bar in close when lifting it, (actually let it glide over your shins) If you don't feel your hamstrings working when doing these, you are either doing it wrong or are dead.

Cheers :O)

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by kaehlerpie
Stiff Leg Deadlifts are the Ultimate Hamstring excercise if done properly.

Stand on a wooden block or 8" riser, Keep knees straight, bend over forward at the waist, grasp bar, guide it back up to the start position (arms at sides) keep the bar in close when lifting it, (actually let it glide over your shins) If you don't feel your hamstrings working when doing these, you are either doing it wrong or are dead.

Cheers :O)

J*ckass -- did you not see my previous post on this? I repeat, bad advice. If there's one thing I know, it's lifting.

NEVER do them elevated -- that increases the range of motion. For all you know, your lower back/hams don't have that kind of flexibility. If you try to go that low -- and the weight of the bar will certainly help this -- you will be compressing the front of your discs, and placing the rear of your discs under tension. This is dangerous, and an outstanding way of rupturing one or more. Like I said before, get QUALITY PROFESSIONAL instruction, which will surely include slightly bending your knees and SHORTENING the range of motion to the point where you can no longer keep your back's natural arch/flat. Rounding = danger. There is no need to ever go deeper down than a pair of 45lb plates on an Olympic bar will allow (i.e., when they hit the floor).

The only sensible advice above is to drag the bar across your shins. Letting the bar drift from your legs increases the leverage and danger to your discs.

But again, don't take my word for it. Do some web searches on it, and pay more attention to real powerlifter sites than "retail" or "fitness" type of sites. Try looking on hardgainer.com or cyberpump.com.

Carrera -- If you have access to a hyperextension bench, that's a much safer back strengthener. Reverse hypers are even better. For pure hammy power, try glute/ham raises. Super safe.

Stiff leg deadlifts, even done in perfect form, are stupid, and I have the lifetime back injury to prove it.

"Carrera -- If you have access to a hyperextension bench, that's a much safer back strengthener. Reverse hypers are even better. For pure hammy power, try glute/ham raises. Super safe."

I honestly don't have much experience with stiff-legged deadlifts or deadlifts as a whole, so I'll check out your advice. I assumed I had been doing them correctly but I confess my back started to ache in a negative way when I first tried the exercise. Then I dropped the weight to just 20 K.G. on a bar.

However the case may be, I'll keep your advice in mind and see what the physios have to say about this exercise e.t.c.

I already tried hyper-extensions.

I share a gym with some pole-vaulters and even the girls were doing this exercise. It helped my lower back initially but then made little difference.

My problem is basically I've been squatting for many years and am approaching 40. I'm getting a few aches due to the years of squatting.

However, cycling has done wonders for my hips and the old hip-pain just disappeared thanks to my bike-training.

Usually if you can find the right counter-exercise, you can sometimes get rid of pain where there may be some imbalance in a muscle group. This is why I tried stiff-legged deadlifts, as well as good-mornings and hyper-extensions.

With regard to your own injury, you might try hot-rocks at some point. It's a kind of deep heat involving heated stones. I may try it myself if my symptoms don't improve.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Aztec
J*ckass -- did you not see my previous post on this? I repeat, bad advice. If there's one thing I know, it's lifting.

NEVER do them elevated -- that increases the range of motion. For all you know, your lower back/hams don't have that kind of flexibility. If you try to go that low -- and the weight of the bar will certainly help this -- you will be compressing the front of your discs, and placing the rear of your discs under tension. This is dangerous, and an outstanding way of rupturing one or more. Like I said before, get QUALITY PROFESSIONAL instruction, which will surely include slightly bending your knees and SHORTENING the range of motion to the point where you can no longer keep your back's natural arch/flat. Rounding = danger. There is no need to ever go deeper down than a pair of 45lb plates on an Olympic bar will allow (i.e., when they hit the floor).

The only sensible advice above is to drag the bar across your shins. Letting the bar drift from your legs increases the leverage and danger to your discs.

But again, don't take my word for it. Do some web searches on it, and pay more attention to real powerlifter sites than "retail" or "fitness" type of sites. Try looking on hardgainer.com or cyberpump.com.

Carrera -- If you have access to a hyperextension bench, that's a much safer back strengthener. Reverse hypers are even better. For pure hammy power, try glute/ham raises. Super safe.

Stiff leg deadlifts, even done in perfect form, are stupid, and I have the lifetime back injury to prove it.

As an after-thought, I doubt that hamstring development will do much for your cycling. I may be quite wrong but I was led to believe that even the best hill-climbers have often never touched a weight. Cycling is also a performance sport so it doesn't matter whether muscles appear to be developed or not.
My boss is female and used to be a champion cyclist locally. She claims to have gotten up one hill that killed me last time I tried it. She weighs far less than I do and she probably couldn't squat more than 35 k.g. in her prime.
The only reason I occasionally refer to weights is I have a few years experience in recreational bodybuilding and would like to hold on to some of my upper body strength, while acquiring a respectable standard of fitness and hill-climbing on my bike. But really too much muscle isn't good for a cyclist and I don't think having developed hamstrings will make much difference, if any.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by kaehlerpie
Stiff Leg Deadlifts are the Ultimate Hamstring excercise if done properly.

Stand on a wooden block or 8" riser, Keep knees straight, bend over forward at the waist, grasp bar, guide it back up to the start position (arms at sides) keep the bar in close when lifting it, (actually let it glide over your shins) If you don't feel your hamstrings working when doing these, you are either doing it wrong or are dead.

Cheers :O)

An alternative to isolate the hamies is to do some running. Mucxh safer for those with overly tight backs or weak back muscles.
I do beach sprints for this purpose.

It sounds like you might need to work on your spinning, I idle around 110 and go to 170 when I use the scraping the mud technique. Motorpacing in a low gear and fast track work is very good for spinning.
Keep working on it.

Brian