Hamilton - why did he crash?

He probably didn't crash that much more often than many other riders.
But, since he had become a top rider his actions were covered in the
media moreso than others, so we were made aware of each and every one
of his crashes.

He did have a knack for falling off when it really mattered that he
didn't.

One of the problems with extreme training and dieting is that unless
you've inherited very strong bones you will lose calcium and get
progressively weaker bones. I think that most of the guys on the top
rung of the ladder are close to having osteoporosis.

I'm lucky to have very strong bones. Often I wonder if that was because
I was clumsy growing up and fell a whole lot or whether that has no
connection whatsoever. I was always the smallest one in school until
near my senior year in which I grew about a foot. I even grew two
inches between 19 and 22 while in the Air Force.

Notice that when Jan and Lance fall they often don't even seem to get
road rash! Now that's something I always had a problem with. If I touch
the ground I'm bleeding. Thin skin perhaps but of course not exactly in
that way.

Callistus Valerius said:

Since Tyler is out of cycling, there isn't much discussion about him.
But I was always curious, or if anyone knows, why he crashed so often? Was
he a poor descender, poor bicycling skills? If so, why? Did he start late,
in cycling? Had to take more risks, to be competitive? That was always a
mystery for me.

I think its because you dont realize how tiny he is till you see him up
close. I think that part of it is just get shoved around in the pack,
or being nervous anticipating getting shoved around and then you crash
your own self.

J

Tom Kunich said:

One of the problems with extreme training and dieting is that unless
you've inherited very strong bones you will lose calcium and get
progressively weaker bones. I think that most of the guys on the top
rung of the ladder are close to having osteoporosis.

I'm lucky to have very strong bones. Often I wonder if that was because
I was clumsy growing up and fell a whole lot or whether that has no
connection whatsoever. I was always the smallest one in school until
near my senior year in which I grew about a foot. I even grew two
inches between 19 and 22 while in the Air Force.

Notice that when Jan and Lance fall they often don't even seem to get
road rash! Now that's something I always had a problem with. If I touch
the ground I'm bleeding. Thin skin perhaps but of course not exactly in
that way.

It's always been apparent that you were boneheaded and thin-skinned.
🙂

R

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Tom Kunich said:

One of the problems with extreme training and dieting is that unless
you've inherited very strong bones you will lose calcium and get
progressively weaker bones. I think that most of the guys on the top
rung of the ladder are close to having osteoporosis.

I'm lucky to have very strong bones. Often I wonder if that was because
I was clumsy growing up and fell a whole lot or whether that has no

Could be nutrition. Youth, early and late, is when we grow
bones and develop nutrition habits. Bones develop from
use, but not over-use.

Quoted message said:

connection whatsoever. I was always the smallest one in school until
near my senior year in which I grew about a foot. I even grew two
inches between 19 and 22 while in the Air Force.

Notice that when Jan and Lance fall they often don't even seem to get
road rash! Now that's something I always had a problem with. If I touch
the ground I'm bleeding. Thin skin perhaps but of course not exactly in
that way.

When I was very young my Dad taught me to do forward and
reverse somersaults. Later I took a few months of judo.
I've taken some hairy falls, but the worst result was a
cracked rib. I've heard that airborne training helps also.
The idea is not to resist the fall.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press said:

The idea is not to resist the fall.

You a Satanist or something?

BTW, a word of warning to all - noses aren't bone, they're cartilage.
They don't get stronger, they just keep breaking...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Tom Kunich said:

One of the problems with extreme training and dieting is that unless
you've inherited very strong bones you will lose calcium and get
progressively weaker bones. I think that most of the guys on the top
rung of the ladder are close to having osteoporosis.

I'm lucky to have very strong bones. Often I wonder if that was because
I was clumsy growing up and fell a whole lot or whether that has no

Could be nutrition. Youth, early and late, is when we grow
bones and develop nutrition habits. Bones develop from
use, but not over-use.

Quoted message said:

connection whatsoever. I was always the smallest one in school until
near my senior year in which I grew about a foot. I even grew two
inches between 19 and 22 while in the Air Force.

Notice that when Jan and Lance fall they often don't even seem to get
road rash! Now that's something I always had a problem with. If I touch
the ground I'm bleeding. Thin skin perhaps but of course not exactly in
that way.

When I was very young my Dad taught me to do forward and
reverse somersaults. Later I took a few months of judo.
I've taken some hairy falls, but the worst result was a
cracked rib. I've heard that airborne training helps also.
The idea is not to resist the fall.

--
Michael Press

I don't buy your assertion. I spent two years in high school doing
judo, then spent 3 years as a paratrooper after college, so I 've had
tons of experience either falling down or being thrown down. I've
also had some pretty nasty crashes while cycling, to include banging up
my shoulders pretty badly. Ever other cyclist I've ever seen fall in
such a way as my last three crashes broke a collarbone. Most people
don't have road rash on top of their shoulders, but I've got it on
both.

I don't think I landed all that well or rolled out of the crashes all
that gracefully. If my ability to fall well has anything to do with
not hurting myself, it's probably more because my reflexes are so
frikkin slow that it's over before I have time to tense up.

Luckily, I've never broken any bones (ever, not just cycling) but I
attribute that to a diet very high in calcium rich foods (e.g. lots of
dairy) and a life spent in some sort of contact sport or weight
training (both of which are alleged to contribute to dense bones). Or,
maybe I was just really lucky that I haven't broken anything yet.

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

One of the problems with extreme training and dieting is that unless
you've inherited very strong bones you will lose calcium and get
progressively weaker bones.

Little bit of jogging or mtn. biking will help to mitigate that...

"Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Since Tyler is out of cycling, there isn't much discussion about him.
But I was always curious, or if anyone knows, why he crashed so often?

Was

Quoted message said:

he a poor descender, poor bicycling skills? If so, why? Did he start

late,

Quoted message said:

in cycling? Had to take more risks, to be competitive? That was always a
mystery for me.

I'm sure the guilt of being a cheater kept him from keeping the focus needed
not to crash and burn. The only question that should be asked is, does
ekimov deserve gold?

Callistus Valerius said:

Since Tyler is out of cycling, there isn't much discussion about him.
But I was always curious, or if anyone knows, why he crashed so often? Was
he a poor descender, poor bicycling skills? If so, why? Did he start late,
in cycling? Had to take more risks, to be competitive? That was always a
mystery for me.

He did start late, but I don't think that had much to do with it.

"sonarrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Callistus Valerius said:

Since Tyler is out of cycling, there isn't much discussion about

him.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But I was always curious, or if anyone knows, why he crashed so often?

Was

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

he a poor descender, poor bicycling skills? If so, why? Did he start

late,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in cycling? Had to take more risks, to be competitive? That was always

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mystery for me.

He did start late, but I don't think that had much to do with it.

some crash-prone riders (Bobby Julich, for example) have been critised for
being so (crash-prone) because the position they adopted on their bike is
less stable

Laz

In article <[email hidden]>,

Callistus Valerius said:

Since Tyler is out of cycling, there isn't much discussion about him.
But I was always curious, or if anyone knows, why he crashed so often? Was
he a poor descender, poor bicycling skills? If so, why? Did he start late,
in cycling? Had to take more risks, to be competitive? That was always a
mystery for me.

I think in Tyler's case a factor is that he doesn't learn that fast.
Two or three seasons ago, when he had a diary on VeloNews, I recall
reading that he crashed at least three times in potholes while
motopacing behind Haven. I remember thinking at the time that the first
one was an "accident" but that the other two were because he was a
dumbass.

KP

"Ken Prager" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Callistus Valerius said:

Since Tyler is out of cycling, there isn't much discussion about him.
But I was always curious, or if anyone knows, why he crashed so often?
Was
he a poor descender, poor bicycling skills? If so, why? Did he start
late,
in cycling? Had to take more risks, to be competitive? That was always
a
mystery for me.

I think in Tyler's case a factor is that he doesn't learn that fast.
Two or three seasons ago, when he had a diary on VeloNews, I recall
reading that he crashed at least three times in potholes while
motopacing behind Haven. I remember thinking at the time that the first
one was an "accident" but that the other two were because he was a
dumbass.

KP

Doesn't that indicate that Haven is the dumbass? When you're pacing behind
a vehicle you really do rely on the pilot to keep you safe from things like
that.

Scott said:

I don't buy your assertion. I spent two years in high school doing
judo, then spent 3 years as a paratrooper after college, so I 've had
tons of experience either falling down or being thrown down. I've
also had some pretty nasty crashes while cycling, to include banging up
my shoulders pretty badly. Ever other cyclist I've ever seen fall in
such a way as my last three crashes broke a collarbone. Most people
don't have road rash on top of their shoulders, but I've got it on
both.

You contradict yourself - the unbroken collarbones and scuffed back and
shoulders tell me that you fall relatively skillfully.

Quoted message said:

I don't think I landed all that well or rolled out of the crashes all
that gracefully. If my ability to fall well has anything to do with
not hurting myself, it's probably more because my reflexes are so
frikkin slow that it's over before I have time to tense up.

Here's the thing, in a real crash nobody's going to do a smooth and elegant
rollout like some kid in a parkours video; and as awkward as it might look, it
always feels worse. Truth is, there's a tremendous difference between a skilled
and unskilled fall, even if the skilled faller feels like it went very badly.
The lack of broken wrists and collarbones alone is telling.

What you and I would consider "not all that skillful" is an entire world of
agility beyond the abject lack of gymnastic skills found in many endurance sport
athletes. Guys don't gravitate toward the suffer sports because they're nimble.
Add in the borderline malnutrition of a guy like Tyler Hamilton and it isn't
even close. Then, there's no way on earth either of us could climb with him. The
same healthy, high-density skeleton and upper body strength that keeps us unhurt
is pretty well wasted in his specialty.

Ron

Quoted message said:

Luckily, I've never broken any bones (ever, not just cycling) but I
attribute that to a diet very high in calcium rich foods (e.g. lots of
dairy) and a life spent in some sort of contact sport or weight
training (both of which are alleged to contribute to dense bones). Or,
maybe I was just really lucky that I haven't broken anything yet.

B. Lafferty said:

"Ken Prager" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I think in Tyler's case a factor is that he doesn't learn that fast.
Two or three seasons ago, when he had a diary on VeloNews, I recall
reading that he crashed at least three times in potholes while
motopacing behind Haven. I remember thinking at the time that the first
one was an "accident" but that the other two were because he was a
dumbass.

KP

Doesn't that indicate that Haven is the dumbass? When you're pacing behind
a vehicle you really do rely on the pilot to keep you safe from things like
that.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Maybe she was hoping to collect some insurance money.

R

"RicodJour" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

"Ken Prager" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I think in Tyler's case a factor is that he doesn't learn that fast.
Two or three seasons ago, when he had a diary on VeloNews, I recall
reading that he crashed at least three times in potholes while
motopacing behind Haven. I remember thinking at the time that the
first
one was an "accident" but that the other two were because he was a
dumbass.

KP

Doesn't that indicate that Haven is the dumbass? When you're pacing
behind
a vehicle you really do rely on the pilot to keep you safe from things
like
that.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Maybe she was hoping to collect some insurance money.

R

Interesting point. Perhaps she was also channeling Tugboat.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:36:36 GMT, "Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Since Tyler is out of cycling, there isn't much discussion about him.
But I was always curious, or if anyone knows, why he crashed so often? Was
he a poor descender, poor bicycling skills? If so, why? Did he start late,
in cycling? Had to take more risks, to be competitive? That was always a
mystery for me.

He lacks the upper body strength to throw the bike and himself around in a
critical moment and lacks the strength and bone mass to avoid injury when that
critical moment turns into a crash. You can knock him off the bike with a well
flung ping pong ball.

He belongs to a style, a class of extremely emaciated, somewhat malnourished
riders that has always sort of puzzled me.

Obviously, excess body mass is a detriment. But it is not the stick figures like
Rasmussen and Hamilton winning big races is it, not the big tours and certainly
not the classics. Hamilton could TT on dope, but we know that's not his normal
mode and we know how many other people didn't show up that day. Guys like
Ullrich and Armstrong are freeking linebackers by comparison and beat them in
every discipline.

Anyway, I'm not an expert, but a lot of the starvation approach seems highly
counterproductive. Ya gotta be relatively healthy and uninjured on raceday to
win. If an extra 3 kilos of muscle make that possible you just have to make
that trade-off - it slows you less than broken bones will.

Now maybe Hamilton truly sucks if he picks up a few pounds, I don't believe it.
Or, maybe he and others indulging in some anorexic tendencies. Either way, I
just don't get it.

Ron

Maybe you ought to try motorpacing behind Haven some time. Totally
aside from certain physical characteristics that might cause one to
lose concentration, you cannot see ahead and have to rely upon the pace
driver to keep you clear of danger. Potholes that a motorbike can't
even feel can crash a bicycle at speed.

RonSonic
"it is not the stick figures like Rasmussen and Hamilton winning big
races is it, not the big tours and certainly not the classics."

You mean like the Olympic TT, L-B-L and Tour de Suisse?

Ron, get real, there isn't a lot of distinguishing features about the
physique of winning riders except that they generally have low body fat
indexes. Indurain was a really tall and relatively large guy while
Hinault is small. LeMond was sort of chunky for a Touer winner in '89
and '90 and Anqutil was thin as a rail.

And even that begs the question - how is Petacchi and before him
Cipolini winning? Who would tip a monster like Axel Merckx or Magnus
Backstedt to win major races? And how do you compare them to Roberto
Heras? Or Marco Pantani?