Haluzak LWB

"Kurt Fischer" skrev...

Quoted message said:

About maybe 15(?) years ago, there was a guy from Poland named Kacmarek who built a similar Bike,
called "Sweet Surprise". Won with full fairing prizes at hpv-races in Germany and replaced the
three-wheeled vector.

Bike looks cool and not too heavy, but I wouldn't have expected Haluzak going this way. What do
you think?

Well the fork is a total Maciek ripoff if you ask me. :-) (Maciek is the nickname for Mieczyslaw
Kaczmarek btw.) But you never know in the HPV-world. Maybe Maciek nicked it from a third and older
design. He builds seats and tailboxes these days btw. for Optima and HP Velotechnik among others
AFAIK. Some pics of his other bikes here in the "Poland" and "Poland revisited" folders
uk.photos.yahoo.combriangoebbelsOpen ↗

The seat looks like its mounted too steep. To me anyway it looks like you get a seat and backrest
effect and why then put a euroseat on it? An american meshseat would probably work better. If he got
it right it probably rides nicely tho.

Just my 2 eurocents Mikael

Mikael Seierup said:

Well the fork is a total Maciek ripoff if you ask me. :-) (Maciek is the nickname for Mieczyslaw
Kaczmarek btw.)

I don't think it's a ripoff of anything. With any bike you need a proper amount of trail and also
the handlebar must be within reach of the rider. With the LWB configuration, there are three ways
to do this:

1) Use a "conventional" head angle and use indirect steering (e.g. Calfee Stiletto and all USS
LWB bikes)

2) Use a head angle close to the "conventional" angle (say, 20 to 30 degrees from vertical) and use
a bent riser to bring the handlebar close to the rider. The bent riser causes tiller effect.
Example: RANS Stratus/V2.

3) Use a much more slanted head angle so you can use a straight riser and eliminate tiller
effect. If you do this, you need a large fork rake to get proper trail. Maciek and Haluzak
chose this option.

Actually options 2 and 3 are not distinct. I think the Easy Racers design is somewhere in between.
Ken Kobayashi [email hidden] solarwww.mtk.nao.ac.jppersonalOpen ↗

"Ken Kobayashi" skrev...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well the fork is a total Maciek ripoff if you ask me. :-) (Maciek is the nickname for Mieczyslaw
Kaczmarek btw.)

I don't think it's a ripoff of anything. With any bike you need a proper amount of trail and also
the handlebar must be within reach of the rider. With the LWB configuration, there are three ways
to do this:

No? Are there other bikes out there with a fork like that? I'm not thinking about headtube angle but
rather the shape of the forklegs here.

Anyway the whole bike still looks like a copy of the "Sweet Surprise" minus a middrive plus Macieks
handlebars looked better. (pic on page 147 of The Recumbent Bicycle) I don't know if he reinvented
the wheel or just thought it would be fun to try that configuration. Its okay I guess but hardly
revolutionary in any respect since the polish was raced in 1988 with a full fairing.

M.

Mikael Seierup said:

I don't know if he reinvented the wheel or just thought it would be fun to try that configuration.
Its okay I guess but hardly revolutionary in any respect since the polish was raced in 1988 with a
full fairing.

It's still around, too. Peter Bruggen sometimes brings it out to play.

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

"Dave Larrington" skrev..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't know if he reinvented the wheel or just thought it would be fun to try that
configuration. Its okay I guess but hardly revolutionary in any respect since the polish was
raced in 1988 with a full fairing.

It's still around, too. Peter Bruggen sometimes brings it out to play.

Just the bike? (I saw a pic of the first fairing in more pieces than the constructor originally
intended.)

Mikael

Mikael Seierup said:

Quoted message said:

It's still around, too. Peter Bruggen sometimes brings it out to play.

Just the bike? (I saw a pic of the first fairing in more pieces than the constructor originally
intended.)

The whole thing - fairing and bike. At least I *think* it's the same one. It's now painted white
and, IIRC, goes under the name "Sweetie". Could be a clone, I suppose.

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

I liked Haluzak's earlier stillborn LWB better. It had USS linkage steering IIRC.

John Riley

Quoted message said:

I don't think it's a ripoff of anything. With any bike you need a proper amount of trail and also
the handlebar must be within reach of the rider. With the LWB configuration, there are three ways
to do this:

1) Use a "conventional" head angle and use indirect steering (e.g. Calfee Stiletto and all USS LWB
bikes)

2) Use a head angle close to the "conventional" angle (say, 20 to 30 degrees from vertical) and
use a bent riser to bring the handlebar close to the rider. The bent riser causes tiller
effect. Example: RANS Stratus/V2.

3) Use a much more slanted head angle so you can use a straight riser and eliminate tiller effect.
If you do this, you need a large fork rake to get proper trail. Maciek and Haluzak chose this
option.

Another option is to use a universal joint as was done on the Velocar. We used this on our prototype
that unfortunately never made it to the market place. The bike handled beautifully.
home.comcast.netview.cgi photo.html SiteID 435Open ↗
285.html click on photos, it's the first picture.

[censored] Ryan

richard ryan said:

Another option is to use a universal joint

I've often wondered why this is not more common on ASS bikes. No doubt someone can enlighten me :-)

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗ Advance
notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP. Obviously there will be a week of downtime
between the engineer removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same equipment on
the same line in the same exchange and billing it to the new ISP.

Just zis Guy said:

richard ryan said:

Another option is to use a universal joint

I've often wondered why this is not more common on ASS bikes. No doubt someone can
enlighten me :-)

< groups.google.comgroupsOpen ↗
um=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dpeek%2Buniversal%2Bjoint%2Bgroup:alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent%26hl%3Den%26lr%-
3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26group%3Dalt.rec.bicycles.recumbent%26selm%3Da38q9o%25242eu6%25241%2540george.awod-
.com%26rnum%3D1

Quoted message said:

< ihpva.orgUJoint.txtOpen ↗ >

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 10:40:10 -0500, Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote:

<groups.google.comgroupsOpen ↗
m=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dpeek%2Buniversal%2Bjoint%2Bgroup:alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent%26hl%3Den%26lr%3-
D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26group%3Dalt.rec.bicycles.recumbent%26selm%3Da38q9o%25242eu6%25241%2540george.awod.-
com%26rnum%3D1>

Thanks, Tom. I would not normally consider a Hooke's joint in that application anyway, even if
Robert Hooke is one of my heroes - I was thinking more along the lines of a CV joint, but the angles
are still against me I guess. The steerer on my (SWB) ASS bike is at about 45 degrees. I'll carry on
living with tiller effect :-)

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗ Advance
notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP. Obviously there will be a week of downtime
between the engineer removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same equipment on
the same line in the same exchange and billing it to the new ISP.

Rotator tried the "U" joint method in 1982 several times with every available joint. There always
seem to have a detectable amount of "slack" between the handle bar movement and the fork movement.
The higher quality units had less but still had some "dead time" between right and left turning
movements. The Haluzak lwb has a kind of Rotator "Pursuit" look to it. The two factories less then a
mile apart. As part of the design process of our Pursuit model we tried a steep head angle such as
Haluzak's new one. Benefit of the design is the hand movement is so much less. Negatives: a quarter
of a millimeter misalignment between the wheels was easily felt, a fairing mounted to the fork and
handlebar like an Easy Racer created a very poor bike in windy situations, in testing no amount of
castor (trail), plus or minus, was good at 65 mph. 11 years development has yielded Pursuits down to
19 pounds for large riders. With 54 speeds Not to brag ..... Speedy

Just zis Guy said:

richard ryan said:

Another option is to use a universal joint

I've often wondered why this is not more common on ASS bikes. No doubt someone can
enlighten me :-)

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗ Advance
notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP. Obviously there will be a week of
downtime between the engineer removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same
equipment on the same line in the same exchange and billing it to the new ISP.

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- newsfeeds.comnewsfeeds.comOpen ↗ - The #1
Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

We also tried every available U-joint made in the USA, even the $60 one we tried had about 4
or 5 thousandths play in it. But the one that the Taiwanese engineers found for us had zero
play. [censored] Ryan

"S. Delaire "Rotatorrecumbent"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rotator tried the "U" joint method in 1982 several times with every available joint. There always
seem to have a detectable amount of "slack" between the handle bar movement and the fork movement.
The higher quality units had less but still had some "dead time" between right and left turning
movements. The Haluzak lwb has a kind of Rotator "Pursuit" look to it. The two factories less then
a mile apart. As part of the design process of our Pursuit model we tried a steep head angle such
as Haluzak's new one. Benefit of the design is the hand movement is so much less. Negatives: a
quarter of a millimeter misalignment between the wheels was easily felt, a fairing mounted to the
fork and handlebar like an Easy Racer created a very poor bike in windy situations, in testing no
amount of castor (trail), plus or minus, was good at 65 mph. 11 years development has yielded
Pursuits down to 19 pounds for large riders. With 54 speeds Not to brag ..... Speedy

Just zis Guy said:

richard ryan said:

Another option is to use a universal joint

I've often wondered why this is not more common on ASS bikes. No doubt someone can enlighten
me :-)

Guy