Half IM base training and how to do it??

Quoted message said:

I understand and agree completely that you must run and bike your LSD at a HR under 80%, but what
on the other 3 days that I run? Do I have to run

also

Quoted message said:

this slow for the next 3 months and just building up the miles(kms.) and start the interval and
speed training after these 3 months? I'm afraid that I will loose my speed if I run always at this
pace. Or

isn't

Quoted message said:

this the case?

I'm no expert, but as I understand it, your base training should consist of relatively easy
run/bike (@ ~80%) w/ concentration on *slow* buildup of mileage. If you are worried about losing
speed, I have read in multiple places that, rather than doing speed workouts, to do 6-8 strides
after every run to maintain speed during your base training.

Good luck.

FWM

Kraftwerker said:

Hello,

I'm a bit puzzled with my preperation for doing my first 2 Half IM in Belgium next year. I read a
lot of books on the subject of training and more specifically on base training. They always speak
about building a foundation during at least 3 months. So the upcoming months are ideal for this
purpose. End of the season and preperation for 2004. Now my issue and problem. It is advised,
according to some books, to run & bike these months on a heartrate never higher then 80%. Others
say that you must do speed training during the base period. What is your opinion about this matter?
I understand and agree completely that you must run and bike your LSD at a HR under 80%, but what
on the other 3 days that I run? Do I have to run also this slow for the next 3 months and just
building up the miles(kms.) and start the interval and speed training after these 3 months? I'm
afraid that I will loose my speed if I run always at this pace. Or isn't this the case? Before I
did always Olympic distances.

Thanks for your reply.

"If triathlon would be easy they would call it football"

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Well here's my understanding of the whole thing. It's a bit shakey but here goes. The human
body can handle high level's of stress for only periods of time. This is what I believe the
"peaking" of a cyclical training program is based on. If one were to try and maintain "peak"
speed for all time. The body would eventually break down and then bad things happen. The
speed "racing speed" we are talking about are generally built up in a few weeks (4-12
depending on race and goals and preferences) prior to an important race. The goal is to peak
this "racing speed" at the right time and hopefull end up faster than the last peak. In
order to avoid the "burn out" we must allow the body to drop to a lower level of stress. In
the case of the buildup periods we are stressing a different system. During the buildup
period we are laying a base, hopefully stronger than last year. This "stronger base" will
allow us to place a stronger frame, "race speed" on top. All of this building will make for
a faster over person. I look at it this way In order to build a better bigger house I have
to have a better bigger foundation. Assuming I already have a house in order to build a
better bigger foundation the existing house will end up getting a little torn up, tattered
and dirty (Nothing new to anyone who's had there house remodeled) However once the new
foundation is layed we can set about to teh work of adding on the new addition to the house
and cleaning up the old house. In short I'd lay off almost entirely form speed work for a
period of time. That period of time will depend on your bodies ability to cope, race goals,
distances blah blah blah.... Doing speed work to a significant amount in comparison to the
amount of base building work will/can detract from your base building efforts. I've seen it
here alot of times and I've even stated it, I'd check out Joe Friels "Triathletes Training
Bible" Alot of this is covered and alot is taught about how and why to set up your
training/race plans.

~Matt

"Kraftwerker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I'm a bit puzzled with my preperation for doing my first 2 Half IM in Belgium next year. I read a
lot of books on the subject of training and more specifically on base training. They always speak
about building a foundation during at least 3 months. So the upcoming months are ideal for this
purpose. End of the season and preperation for 2004. Now my issue and problem. It is advised,
according to some books, to run & bike these months on a heartrate never higher then 80%. Others
say that you must do speed training during the base period. What is your opinion about this
matter? I understand and agree completely that you must run and bike your LSD at a HR under 80%,
but what on the other 3 days that I run? Do I have to run also this slow for the next 3 months and
just building up the miles(kms.) and start the interval and speed training after these 3 months?
I'm afraid that I will loose my speed if I run always at this pace. Or isn't this the case? Before
I did always Olympic distances.

Being that this is your first half, what do you expect? If you have been racing and placing in the
top 10 in your Olympic distances than you will probably have already been used to the stress that
some speed work entails. So, if you expect to place within this same area, you will need to be doing
some speed work dependent upon who you want to finish.

The reason that it is suggested that you do not do alot of speed work is because speed work is
harsh to your body. So buildin a good base early will allow your body to absorb the damage that the
speed work will do to you. Plus, you will be less likely to be injured during this building phase
without it.

Now, if you just want to finish, don't have too much worry about speed work at all. Just work on the
longer distances and then incorporate some hillwork which best simulates the hills that you may
encounter. This will better prepare you for the conditions that you will face race day rather than
having the speedwork that you will not use since you are not racing the clock.

Just a thought.

Hi, i´m a spanish triathlete, I´m doing the bachelor in Physiology of triathlon. I´m researching
about heart rate in Long Distance Triathlon.

In a half Ironman, 5 triathletes used a heart rate monitor (Polar s-810)3 weeks later to develop 3
field tests to determinate lactic treshold (LT) and Onset on Blood Lactate Acumulation (OBLA) to
establish 3 zones of intensity. Phase I (from rest to LT) or aerobic phase, Phase II, from LT to
OBLA, or transition phase, and phase III, from OBLA to maximum, or anaerobic phase.

In Half Ironman, the triathletes were in phase I of swimming 1% of time, 4% in phase II and 75% in
phase III. In cycling 4% in Phase I, 49% in phase II and 47% in phase III. In running, 5% in phase
I, 80% in phase II and 15% in phase III

(Jaime Menendez de Luarca) said:

Hi, i´m a spanish triathlete, I´m doing the bachelor in Physiology of triathlon. I´m researching
about heart rate in Long Distance Triathlon.

In a half Ironman, 5 triathletes used a heart rate monitor (Polar s-810)3 weeks later to develop 3
field tests to determinate lactic treshold (LT) and Onset on Blood Lactate Acumulation (OBLA) to
establish 3 zones of intensity. Phase I (from rest to LT) or aerobic phase, Phase II, from LT to
OBLA, or transition phase, and phase III, from OBLA to maximum, or anaerobic phase.

In Half Ironman, the triathletes were in phase I of swimming 1% of time, 4% in phase II and 75% in
phase III. In cycling 4% in Phase I, 49% in phase II and 47% in phase III. In running, 5% in phase
I, 80% in phase II and 15% in phase III

Where is this study at? First problem I see is that the swim portion only adds up to 80% of
the time. If I'm reading this right you're saying that in the swim these athletes spent 79%
of the time at or above LT in teh swim, 96% at or above LT in the Cycling and 95% at or
above LT in the run. These numbers seem very VERY high to me. I can't even imagine going
over LT for extended periods of time in a half IM. For me it would be suicide.

~Matt

The study is in Malaga (Spain)

The time in phase I phase II and phase III in swimming is 1%, 23% and 75%

Lactit treshold is like "aerobic treshold" and OBLA is like "anaerobic treshold".

I think the total time above LT is logical. What I think is veru intense is the time above OBLA,
although this time decreases when the most time in the race passes.

Sorry about my english

(Jaime Menendez de Luarca) said:

The study is in Malaga (Spain)

The time in phase I phase II and phase III in swimming is 1%, 23% and 75%

Lactit treshold is like "aerobic treshold" and OBLA is like "anaerobic treshold".

I think the total time above LT is logical. What I think is veru intense is the time above OBLA,
although this time decreases when the most time in the race passes.

Sorry about my english

No problem with your english, myabe some problem with the terminology and the study though.

LT = Lactate threshold, Lactate turnpoint not actually a point perse as much as a arc on a graph
where Lactate production increase dramatically in a short period.

Although Lactate apparently dos not directly effect muscle fuction presence or production of
lactate during intense excersie is accompanied with protons h+, that do. So unless I'm
missing something again Excersise at LT or above will eventually cause an athlete to stop.
Doing an 1/2 IM at LT or above is IMO just not possible and that is why I'd like to see the
full study.

You also mentioned LT = "Aerobic" I'm not sure where you got that. A few passages from
Noakes "Lore of running"

"The original explanation for the rise in blood lactate concentrations at the lactate turnpoint was
that at the turnpoint, the oxygen supply to the muscles was inadequte to cover ther oxygen demands.
The muscles therfore became "anaerobic" and as a result, released lactate in increasing amounts."

This seems to me to point out the term "Anerobic" refers to LT not "Aerobic"

Unfortunately later..

"First, muscles can release lactate even when their oxygen supply is more than adequete (Connet et
al 1984,1986)"

And

"Second their is no conclusive that muscles become anaerobic at intensities approximating LT (Connet
et al 1985) or even during maximal excercise (Graham & Saltin, 1989) for these reasons the term
anaerobic threshold is clearly inappropriate"

Of course I could be missing soemthing as usual but either your using LT differently than I
am or there is no way that these guys did a 1/2 at 90%+ of the time over LT. I cans see
playing the line at LT occasional crossing over it and easing back but not sustained.

~Matt

if you know spanish, the full text is in estadium.ya.comestadium.ya.comOpen ↗ (Frecuencia Cardiaca en Medio
Ironman) The photo is from a Long Distance Event Swimming in the North of Spain (8,4 miles=13,5 km),
I´m the guy who wears the speedo fast skin, and the girl in front of mine is my girlfriend.

It´s very interesting for me to know the terminology for treshold in England, USA, Australia
and others.

My director´s doctorate is Alejandro Lucia, colaborator with Noakes.

I use LT as "significant increase in lactate concentration in blood from rest values" Many
investigators situate this point near 2mMol/L, but I prefer to individualize for each subject. In
bpms is something like 140 bpm for cycling (in my case 118 bpm)

OBLA is the intensity of exersice where the lactate concentration in blood can not be "cleaned",
Mader et al situate OBLA in 4 mMol/L. In bpm, something like 175 bpm (in my case, 154 bpm)

In OBLA breathing is very fast and superficial, In LT breathing is easy and deep.

Is it normal now?

(Jaime Menendez de Luarca) said:

if you know spanish, the full text is in estadium.ya.comestadium.ya.comOpen ↗ (Frecuencia Cardiaca en Medio
Ironman) The photo is from a Long Distance Event Swimming in the North of Spain (8,4 miles=13,5
km), I´m the guy who wears the speedo fast skin, and the girl in front of mine is my girlfriend.

I'll check it out. I have several spanish speaking friends. Maybe they can translate for me.

Quoted message said:

It´s very interesting for me to know the terminology for treshold in England, USA, Australia
and others.

My director´s doctorate is Alejandro Lucia, colaborator with Noakes.

I use LT as "significant increase in lactate concentration in blood from rest values" Many
investigators situate this point near 2mMol/L, but I prefer to individualize for each subject. In
bpms is something like 140 bpm for cycling (in my case 118 bpm)

OBLA is the intensity of exersice where the lactate concentration in blood can not be "cleaned",
Mader et al situate OBLA in 4 mMol/L. In bpm, something like 175 bpm (in my case, 154 bpm)

In OBLA breathing is very fast and superficial, In LT breathing is easy and deep.

Is it normal now?

It seems a bit closer but I'm still having a hard time.

According to the numbers here you place the athletes above a point were lactate is
accumulating in the stream. 75% of the time for the swim, 47% of the time for the bike and
15% fro the run. Lets these athletes did around a 5 hr 1/2 IM, for easy figuring. 30 min
swim 3 hr bike and 1 1/2 hr run. That woudl put them at a point of accumulating lactate for
22.5 mins in the swim, 84.6 mins in the bike and 13 min in the run for a total of 120 min or
two hrs. Roughly 40% of the entire race was run accumulating lactate. These numbers alone I
woudl think would be feasible, something along the lines of an interval workout were you
were allowed a recovery period. Unfortunately this is a race and as you stated a good
portion of the rest of the time was spent at (LT to OBLA) During this transition period the
rate at which the lactate can be "cleaned" is considerabbly slower than the rate during an
interval recovery. I suppose that it is possible that an athlete play the line very closely.
In other words running at 101% (OBLA) for 5 minutes and the 99% (OBLA) at 5 minutes. I just
have a hard time beleveing that is possible for an endurance race such as a 1/2 IM. I'll
check out the study adn see what else I can dig up.

~Matt

Hi, i´m a spanish triathlete, I´m doing the bachelor in Physiology of triathlon. I´m researching
about heart rate in Long Distance Triathlon.

In a half Ironman, 5 triathletes used a heart rate monitor (Polar s-810)3 weeks later to develop 3
field tests to determinate lactic treshold (LT) and Onset on Blood Lactate Acumulation (OBLA) to
establish 3 zones of intensity. Phase I (from rest to LT) or aerobic phase, Phase II, from LT to
OBLA, or transition phase, and phase III, from OBLA to maximum, or anaerobic phase.

In Half Ironman, the triathletes were in phase I of swimming 1% of time, 4% in phase II and 75% in
phase III. In cycling 4% in Phase I, 49% in phase II and 47% in phase III. In running, 5% in phase
I, 80% in phase II and 15% in phase III