Guesstimating Race Data

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by packfill [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]
...What is the best way to go?

The best way to go is to race with a power meter and get actual race data that can be incredibly valuable in terms of identifying strengths, weaknesses, and opportunities for improvement.

But if that's not an option and you get so much race day advantage out of your non power wheelset then I'd stick with what you've been doing and estimate IF and from it TSS to drive your PMC so that you can roughly track training load. Assuming your racing is a relatively small amount of your overall training year as in maybe 30 to 40 days out of a couple of hundred training days your PMC should still be relatively accurate and useful from a load management standpoint.

FWIW, when I still used PT wheelsets I quickly learned that my lighter non PT wheelset did less to improve my race results than racing with decent tires on my PT wheelset and using what I learned from the race data to target specific areas of improvement. YMMV...

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by packfill [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

In the past I would often take a stab at inputting some data for races since my race wheels do not record power. Looking back, I'm not sure if this is useful or not. I hate ignoring what are quality sessions in crits, TTs or road races but other than a CTL/TSB proxy it seems like a distortion. A few seasons ago I decided not to guess at non cycling workouts, but races seem like the gold standard and ignoring them is as bad as guessing....

What is the best way to go?

Racing is much different than training. It is all about management. If you keep track of your heart rate, you should be able to manage a race.

Crank or pedal based power meter?
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Thanks for the feedback Dave. I think I may just do the early season races with the PT wheel although it is a very practical 32 spoke box rim set up and look at the data. If nothing else it may inform my later season guesstimates.

I appreciate the feedback on the minimal differences between wheels. After so much marketing hype, I feel like, after paying the fee and driving, I should be on the light aero wheels. Maybe not so much.

I do agree that race results are about managing efforts, the data from the PM seems like it would be important. I do about 30 days of racing, many with 2 races on the day, but that is a drop in the ocean of annual data. Thanks for the sanity check.

As an aside, I know it sounds crazy, but at the cost of an SRM I would be terrified of destroying it in some stupid crit pile up....

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting the pm is all that valuable during the race, but the data you collect can be extremely valuable in terms of understanding strengths, weaknesses and areas to focus on for improvement. Unless you're talking TT or solo breakaway pacing it generally pays to race the race and not worry about the PM numbers during the race.

SRMs aren't all that fragile and cranksets don't generally take a lot of abuse in a crash. I'd be far more concerned about trashing an expensive carbon wheelset or frame in a crash than destroying an SRM crank.

-Dave

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by throckmorton [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Crank or pedal based power meter?
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I'm going to get Garmins pedal based unit as soon as it's available, it'll be much easier to transfer between bikes!

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by steve [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

I'm going to get Garmins pedal based unit as soon as it's available, it'll be much easier to transfer between bikes!

Hmmmm, could you really change a pair of pedals faster than this:

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Hmmmm, could you really change a pair of pedals faster than this:

Changing pedals would be 60 seconds more tops? Maybe less if you weren't taking off a pair from the bike that you are transferring the pedals too. I really think speed of switch is a negligible selling point if you are deciding between crank and pedal PMs. More compelling points to consider on both sides would be:

-price
-durability (pedal/cleat units are unproven)
-cyclocross (prob not going to want to use the garmins)
-accuracy (also yet to be determined with pedal/cleat units)
-interchangability (1. pedal/crank interface is universal while bottom brackets standards vary. 2. do you want the same chainrings on your bikes? If not you are adding some time and grime to your switch)
-Right and Left leg power (not available with a crank unit)

So, pedal/cleat might be the perfect choice for some but out of the question for others.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by throckmorton [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Changing pedals would be 60 seconds more tops? Maybe less if you weren't taking off a pair from the bike that you are transferring the pedals too. I really think speed of switch is a negligible selling point if you are deciding between crank and pedal PMs. More compelling points to consider on both sides would be:

-price
-durability (pedal/cleat units are unproven)
-cyclocross (prob not going to want to use the garmins)
-accuracy (also yet to be determined with pedal/cleat units)
-interchangability (1. pedal/crank interface is universal while bottom brackets standards vary. 2. do you want the same chainrings on your bikes? If not you are adding some time and grime to your switch)
-Right and Left leg power (not available with a crank unit)

So, pedal/cleat might be the perfect choice for some but out of the question for others.

some additional:
Allow time to correctly install the pedal's PM unit to ensure it's properly aligned etc. This takes some time with the Look/Polar units it would seem.
L-R power is over rated as an issue / selling point.
Some riders may use use different pedal/cleat systems on different bikes (road/track/MTB/CX).
Pedals are the most portable unit though, which is handy when traveling and using a borrowed/hired bike.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by Alex Simmons [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

some additional:
Allow time to correctly install the pedal's PM unit to ensure it's properly aligned etc. This takes some time with the Look/Polar units it would seem.
L-R power is over rated as an issue / selling point.
Some riders may use use different pedal/cleat systems on different bikes (road/track/MTB/CX).
Pedals are the most portable unit though, which is handy when traveling and using a borrowed/hired bike.

The Garmin Vector doesn't require any special alignment of the PM unit.

I think the whole "time to change between bikes" is a non-issue. Whether your changing pedals (including the Look/Polar system) or cranks, it's just doesn't take too long at all. The very few times when such a change could be time critical would, IMHO, be the result of either pour planning or [censored] just happening.

L/R training might not be terribly useful now, but that does not preclude it becoming useful after perhaps new training knowledge and/or techniques are developed.

Variation of axles within a manufacturer's pedal and range and between manufacturers is what is limiting the universality of axle strain measuring systems. If Brim Brothers actually bring a product to market, their approach may lead to a more universal application, but I think the wire running outside of the shoe is a concern. Certainly a power unit that doesn't require buying a new pedal body periodically is attractive.

Not a lot has been said on this, but I think Shimano and Campagnolo are in interesting positions because they could conceivably integrate a power meter (quite possibly of their own making and of a different sort) into their e-gruppos. I could envision completely new FlightDecks, ErgoBrains, and possibly third part head units that could plug into an e-gruppos wiring loom and read a few different sensors. Someone once claimed to me, before Di2 came out, the Shimano was not only working on an e-gruppo but was also considering making power measurement a capability of that system.

I don't know about you, but I'm kind of a wuss when it comes to my threshold tests, so races are when I get my best data.