GT ~ zum 3.0

steve said:

I have been told in the past that there is no such bike that
will fit this request and that i would need both a road racing bike
and a mountain bike to fit my needs or maybe even a hybrid, but the
hybrid would not be suitable to go off road.

A road bike fitted with skinny high-pressure slick tyres will have
difficulty on all but the lightest off-road use.

An MTB /can/ be ridden on the road, just not as fast as a Proper Road
Bike. And knobbly tyres give less grip on tarmac than slicks. You will
work harder to go slower. If your main purpose of riding on the road is
for fitness, this will not be an issue - although you might not enjoy it
as much as if you had a PRB, and you won't be able to keep up with
others who /are/ riding PRBs.

A hybrid is a compromise, which means it is not as good as a road bike
on the road, and not as good as a MTB off-road. But it can be a very
good compromise, especially if you are on a budget.

The bike you are looking at is probably a reasonable choice, though I
know nothing about suspension forks so can't comment on the quality of
those fitted. London-based bike supermarket Evans classes it as a
commuter bike[1], although London commuters have little use for a triple
chainring and suspension fork. But that says more about Evans than it
says about the bike.

Assuming the one you are looking at is a similar spec to the 2006 model,
the tyres it comes with are for road use, so if you are going /very/
off-road you might want a spare set of tyres better suited for the
purpose and change as necessary. Otherwise something like Schwalbe
Marathon tyres would be a good compromise suitable for both road and
light off-road use.

Quoted message said:

Being relatively new to the current bike scene i wondered if you
knowledgeable people out there would agree that this would be the
ideal bike for my dilemma rather than have to buy two separate bikes?

No, two separate bikes would be the ideal, but as a compromise you could
do a lot worse.

d.

1.
<url:http://www.evanscycles.com/product.jsp;jsessionid=BF5518444337738D59F81B0647D91B5B.tc5?style=60056>

in message <[email hidden]>, steve

(') said:

I am currently looking for a bike to fit many differing situations.
First of all i require a bike for fitness, being used on tarmac and
secondly to use as a mountain bike both on forestry breaks and off road
(occasionally). i would say that i would be using the bike 60 % on
tarmac. I have been told in the past that there is no such bike that
will fit this request and that i would need both a road racing bike
and a mountain bike to fit my needs or maybe even a hybrid, but the
hybrid would not be suitable to go off road.

That's pretty much right. Cross bikes are perhaps the best compromise
solution if you want to do both on-road and off, and the most widely
available at present is probably the Specialized Tricross

http://www.simplythebike.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=193&products_id=1893

(but not that it comes as standard with a carbon seat post which is not
recommended for off-road use).

A lot of other makers make cross bikes, of course, but Specialized are
promoting the tricross more heavily than others. A cross bike isn't
suitable for super-technical off-road stuff, but will cope with
virtually all the off-road stuff most people actually do, and is much
better on the road than a mountain bike.

Quoted message said:

I have recently seen a 2005 GT zum 3.0 for £400 with lock-out forks
and suspension and is both light and seems quite nippy, and also has a
triple chainset which would be quite useful to tackle lake district
passes.

It's a hard tail mountain bike, like any one of a hundred other models of
hard tail mountain bike on the market at present. It isn't very well
specified for its price - the Claud Butler Cape Wrath at around the same
price has better components throughout.

Quoted message said:

Being relatively new to the current bike scene i wondered if you
knowledgeable people out there would agree that this would be the
ideal bike for my dilemma rather than have to buy two separate bikes?

No. It's a mountain bike. It will be reasonably good on technical
off-road sections, but really quite sluggish on the road.

Quoted message said:

or if you have any other suggestions i would be grateful for your
input.

Two bikes - if you can afford them - is the best solution. But short of
that, a cross bike will do what you want.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for
murther
-- Roburt Burns, 'Thanksgiving For a National Victory'

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, steve

(') said:

I am currently looking for a bike to fit many differing situations.
First of all i require a bike for fitness, being used on tarmac and
secondly to use as a mountain bike both on forestry breaks and off road
(occasionally). i would say that i would be using the bike 60 % on
tarmac. I have been told in the past that there is no such bike that
will fit this request and that i would need both a road racing bike
and a mountain bike to fit my needs or maybe even a hybrid, but the
hybrid would not be suitable to go off road.

That's pretty much right. Cross bikes are perhaps the best compromise
solution if you want to do both on-road and off, and the most widely
available at present is probably the Specialized Tricross

http://www.simplythebike.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=193&products_id=1893

(but not that it comes as standard with a carbon seat post which is not
recommended for off-road use).

A lot of other makers make cross bikes, of course, but Specialized are
promoting the tricross more heavily than others. A cross bike isn't
suitable for super-technical off-road stuff, but will cope with
virtually all the off-road stuff most people actually do, and is much
better on the road than a mountain bike.

Quoted message said:

I have recently seen a 2005 GT zum 3.0 for £400 with lock-out forks
and suspension and is both light and seems quite nippy, and also has a
triple chainset which would be quite useful to tackle lake district
passes.

It's a hard tail mountain bike, like any one of a hundred other models of
hard tail mountain bike on the market at present. It isn't very well
specified for its price - the Claud Butler Cape Wrath at around the same
price has better components throughout.

Quoted message said:

Being relatively new to the current bike scene i wondered if you
knowledgeable people out there would agree that this would be the
ideal bike for my dilemma rather than have to buy two separate bikes?

No. It's a mountain bike. It will be reasonably good on technical
off-road sections, but really quite sluggish on the road.

Quoted message said:

or if you have any other suggestions i would be grateful for your
input.

Two bikes - if you can afford them - is the best solution. But short of
that, a cross bike will do what you want.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for
murther
-- Roburt Burns, 'Thanksgiving For a National Victory'

Right. Forget hybrid/cross/sport/whatever bikes. You are on the right
track (hmm) with the GT zum. My everyday bike is an 18lb mountain bike
with a rigid pace fork. I fit the skinniest tyres available for
commuting fifteen miles a day and it and it goes like the clappers. If
I go off road I spend ten minutes in the shed and swap the slicks for
knobblies. Off road it copes with anything my 44 year old bones will.
Forget hybrids. They have no purpose. I will stick needles in my eyes
before I ride one.

steve' of urlhttp://groups.google.com/url said:

Being relatively new to the current bike scene i wondered if you
knowledgeable people out there would agree that this would be the
ideal bike for my dilemma rather than have to buy two separate bikes?
or if you have any other suggestions i would be grateful for your
input.

For a newbie, starting with a hybrid is a great idea. As davek says its
performance is a compromise, but it will be useable for both on and off
road. This way you can try everything and find out what sort of riding you
like doing, without spending a fortune on a good bike for the wrong purpose.
Then later when you know what your riding needs are, you can look for the
one (or two or more) perfect bikes for you.

Don't know anything about that particular bike though.
--
Steph Peters
Chorlton Wanderers Cycling Group
Monthly slow and easy rides from South Manchester
http://www.sandbenders.demon.co.uk/cycling/chwan.htm

Mickle said:

Forget hybrids. They have no purpose. I will stick needles in my eyes
before I ride one.

Hmmm... some might say that a mountain bike with a rigid fork and narrow
slicks is the very definition of a hybrid.

d.

davek said:

Mickle said:

Forget hybrids. They have no purpose. I will stick needles in my eyes
before I ride one.

Hmmm... some might say that a mountain bike with a rigid fork and narrow
slicks is the very definition of a hybrid.

d.

Der. No. Its a mountain bike with slicks. Thats my point. I think that
you will find that the very definition of a hybrid is a cycle with 700c
wheels and flat bars. 'Some' dont know what they are on about.
My bike is a mountain bike. I sometimes fit different tyres to it
according to the terrain I ride. I contend that a 'hybrid' is slower
off road than my mountain bike and that my mountain bike is no slower
on road than a 'hybrid'. Therefore, 'hybrids' are obsolete. They have
been obsolete since Specialized introduced the Fat Boy tyre.
If you would like to get into a discussion about rolling resistance or
aerodynamics bring it on.
Hybrids suck. Road bikes are road bikes. Hybrids are a marketing
exercise. Mountain bikes are, for most cyclists needs, the perfect all
round bike.

"Mickle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

davek said:

Mickle said:

Forget hybrids. They have no purpose. I will stick needles in my eyes
before I ride one.

Hmmm... some might say that a mountain bike with a rigid fork and narrow
slicks is the very definition of a hybrid.

Der. No. Its a mountain bike with slicks. Thats my point. I think that
you will find that the very definition of a hybrid is a cycle with 700c
wheels and flat bars. 'Some' dont know what they are on about.
My bike is a mountain bike.

Feel free to tone down the arrogance before you start telling everyone how
stupid they are.

--
Ambrose

Mickle said:

Hybrids suck. Road bikes are road bikes. Hybrids are a marketing
exercise. Mountain bikes are, for most cyclists needs, the perfect all
round bike.

Maybe for you, not for me. Some of us have no need to [censored] about on
hills, or beat the pants off other riders on the road. My bike does not
rely on brute force to change gear and I won't be needing to change the
cassette or brake pads ever and the chain should last for a long time.
Important factors for me are long term reliability and lack of
maintenance, you probably won't find those on a mountain bike.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

Change is inevitable...............except from a PhotoMe
passport booth

Woops! Someone didnt read the whole story. Steve did say that he wanted
to go off road from time to time.
Don, my bike does not rely on brute force to change gear, my last
cassette lasted for ten years, and my chains last a long time. Where do
you get your information from? For the most part the chains, cassettes
brake pads and rim material are the same on hybrids as they are on
mountain bikes. And by the way if you dont replace your brake pads ever
they will eat your rims eventually.
My point is that there is no significant difference in performance (all
other things being equal) between a bicycle with 26inch wheels and one
with 700c wheels.

Mickle said:

Woops! Someone didnt read the whole story. Steve did say that he wanted
to go off road from time to time.

Ah, but I was not replying to anything Steve wrote. You said ...

Quoted message said:

Hybrids suck. Road bikes are road bikes. Hybrids are a marketing
exercise. Mountain bikes are, for most cyclists needs, the perfect all
round bike.

Which is what I was replying to.

Quoted message said:

Don, my bike does not rely on brute force to change gear, my last
cassette lasted for ten years, and my chains last a long time. Where do
you get your information from? For the most part the chains, cassettes
brake pads and rim material are the same on hybrids as they are on
mountain bikes. And by the way if you dont replace your brake pads ever
they will eat your rims eventually.

If you use a derailer system, you rely on brute force to shift gear. You
are forcing the chain to come off the ring it is on and either climb or
drop to another ring. It is not an elegant system.

I will not need to change my cassette as I do not have one, I do not
need to change brake pads as I do not have any and my chain will last
longer than one fitted to a derailer bike as it is always in line and is
not being forced from side to side.

As for rim wear, I would assume that would be the last of your worries
is you fail to change a rim brake pad. Stopping the bike would get a bit
tricky too.

Quoted message said:

My point is that there is no significant difference in performance (all
other things being equal) between a bicycle with 26inch wheels and one
with 700c wheels.

That I have to agree with, mine has 26inch wheels.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

"I suppose they are vicious rascals, but it scarcely matters
what they are. I'm after what they know." (Gibson-Sterling, The
Difference Engine)

"Mickle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Der. No. Its a mountain bike with slicks. Thats my point. I think that
you will find that the very definition of a hybrid is a cycle with 700c
wheels and flat bars.

Hmm. Asked Gary Fisher about that one recently? Wasn't it him leading the
recent fad for bikes with 700c wheels and flat bars? He might have called
them something else, but that doesn't change what they are.

Quoted message said:

Therefore, 'hybrids' are obsolete. They have
been obsolete since Specialized introduced the Fat Boy tyre.

Hybrids are just normal bikes. They're what people rode before people got
all specialised about things.

clive

I disagree Don, the modern deraileur is a beautifully elegant system
which has a number of advantages over internal hub gears which (with
the possible exception of the Rohloff) are heavier and less efficient.
Hub gears may not be used in high torque/load applications like
mountain biking, tandeming or heavy touring. I appreciate that there
are some advantages but the real clincher for me is the extra time and
effort required to remove or replace the wheel. I can change the wheel
in my bike in seconds (and thinking about it, I could probably do it
with my eyes closed), without the need for any tools, without getting
chain oil on my person and without the need to readjust my chain
tension as the deraileur does it for me.

Hmm. Gary Fisher, the self proclaimed Father of mountain biking. He
disappeared up himself years ago. Ive encountered him on a couple of
occasions and know people who have met him and we are all of the
opinion that the man is a contemptious, pompous tw*t.
I agree that hybrids are just normal bikes but they certainly didnt
exist before mountain bikes came along. The hybrid bike as we know it
today was an invention of the taiwanese manufacturers who, having
suffered when they jumped on the BMX band wagon as it ground to a halt,
were desperate to maintain production capacity when they realised that
mountain bikes sales were sliding. Before mountain bikes there were
racers, tourers and three speeds. I dont recall ever seeing a
lightweight production flat handlebar multi speed bike before the mid
eighties. The industry finds itself in a similar situation today.
Mountain bike sales are in decline and Taiwan is busy trying to invent
new niche products, witness Giants FCR C1 and Mr Fishers 29er. Fad is
right.

in message <[email hidden]>,

Mickle (') said:

davek said:

Mickle said:

Forget hybrids. They have no purpose. I will stick needles in my
eyes before I ride one.

Hmmm... some might say that a mountain bike with a rigid fork and
narrow slicks is the very definition of a hybrid.

Der. No. Its a mountain bike with slicks. Thats my point. I think that
you will find that the very definition of a hybrid is a cycle with 700c
wheels and flat bars. 'Some' dont know what they are on about.
My bike is a mountain bike. I sometimes fit different tyres to it
according to the terrain I ride. I contend that a 'hybrid' is slower
off road than my mountain bike and that my mountain bike is no slower
on road than a 'hybrid'. Therefore, 'hybrids' are obsolete. They have
been obsolete since Specialized introduced the Fat Boy tyre.
If you would like to get into a discussion about rolling resistance or
aerodynamics bring it on.
Hybrids suck. Road bikes are road bikes. Hybrids are a marketing
exercise. Mountain bikes are, for most cyclists needs, the perfect all
round bike.

Your bike sounds to me like a hybrid. Good mountain bikes have too high a
bottom bracket, too slack angles, and too low gearing to be much use on
the road, irrespective of tyres. The 700c wheeled hybrid is a fairly
recent invention anyway - originally all hybrids had 26" wheels.

But I'd agree with you that a hybrid is neither fish nor fowl, and not
much good for anything.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Good grief, I can remember when England won the Ashes.

in message <[email hidden]>,

Mickle (') said:

Woops! Someone didnt read the whole story. Steve did say that he wanted
to go off road from time to time.
Don, my bike does not rely on brute force to change gear, my last
cassette lasted for ten years, and my chains last a long time. Where do
you get your information from?

If your cassette lasted ten years, you either don't ride off road or else
you don't ride much at all. I'm obsessive about keeping my chain clean
and well lubricated, and I replace them well before they reach their
wear limit; but I can't make a mountain bike cassette last more than two
years. Friends who race seriously get through cassettes in under six
months.

Quoted message said:

For the most part the chains, cassettes
brake pads and rim material are the same on hybrids as they are on
mountain bikes. And by the way if you dont replace your brake pads ever
they will eat your rims eventually.

His bike doesn't have either a cassette or brake pads.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Q: Whats a webmaster?
A: Like a spider, but nowhere near as intelligent.

I commuted fifteen miles a day plus dirt rides every other weekend for
five years, then it went on my GFs bike and she does about 2500 miles
per year on bike paths, light trails and gritty tow paths. When you add
it all up it does sound extraordinary but its true. 1996 XTR. Only ever
used sram or whipperman chains and never degreased them, neither of us
mash or shifts or trundle around in a high gear. Its still good now, I
only took it off because I was bored of looking at it.

Mickle said:

Der. No. Its a mountain bike with slicks. Thats my point. I think that
you will find that the very definition of a hybrid is a cycle with 700c
wheels and flat bars.

I'd better complain to the Edinburgh Bicycle Co-operative - the
so-called "hybrid" they sold me had 26" wheels!

Quoted message said:

'Some' dont know what they are on about.

Ain't it so.

Quoted message said:

I contend that a 'hybrid' is slower
off road than my mountain bike and that my mountain bike is no slower
on road than a 'hybrid'.

Your MTB only matches the performance on-road of a hybrid because you
have swapped out the knobbly tyres and locked out the fork. In other
words, you have removed two of the defining characteristics that made it
a mountain bike.

Quoted message said:

Therefore, 'hybrids' are obsolete.

Whatever.

d.

Mickle said:

I disagree Don, the modern deraileur is a beautifully elegant system
which has a number of advantages over internal hub gears which (with
the possible exception of the Rohloff) are heavier and less efficient.
Hub gears may not be used in high torque/load applications like
mountain biking, tandeming or heavy touring. I appreciate that there
are some advantages but the real clincher for me is the extra time and
effort required to remove or replace the wheel. I can change the wheel
in my bike in seconds (and thinking about it, I could probably do it
with my eyes closed), without the need for any tools, without getting
chain oil on my person and without the need to readjust my chain
tension as the deraileur does it for me.

Mick, I know you are new to this Usenet lark (at least using this
identity), but could you please quote a little of what you are
responding to. No need to quote the entire thread either, just the thing
you are commenting on. It makes it a bit easier for the rest of us.

I can see the need to get a wheel off quickly if you are in a race, but
if there is no hurry, why rush?. Now that I know what to do, getting the
wheels off is not a problem, sure I need tools, but as I always carry
them that is not an issue. Mind you I still have not figured out why my
from wheel has a QR when you need to disconnect the brake first. For me
the issue is not about weight or efficiency, if that was the case I
would be whippet thin and super fit. I am neither. What drove my
decision for hub gears and roller brakes was the minimal maintenance and
fiddling around needed on a regular basis. OK, when you need to get the
wheels off to change a tyre or tube they require a bit more effort, but
life is all about compromise.

The design of the modern deraileur system still relys on brute force to
shift the chain onto a new ring and this will cause wear.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

"The war isn't the war between the blacks and the whites, the
liberals and the conservatives, or the Federation and the
Romulans. It's between the clueful and the clueless." (an
anonymous poster on cypherpunks list)

Mickle said:

Ive worked in the cycle trade for nearly twenty years, Ive

<snip huge and boring bragging list>

Yet you will stick needles in your eyes before you use a hybrid?

/right.../

Quoted message said:

If
you dont agree with what I write then show me the science.

How about several million people who happily get on with bikes you claim
have "no purpose"...

Quoted message said:

I reserve the right to get pissy when people write/talk [censored].

The fact that you get pissy every time you write or say anything must
jar a bit after a while, I'd think... ;-/

Quoted message said:

I didnt tell everyone how stupid they are.

/right.../

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/