GT SS Rebirthing..

hippy said:

So the driveline is trashed and needs replacement on the
singlespeed. I don't want to use a derrailer as a tensioner
with new parts.. so...

Surly Singleator $135 or DMR Tension Seeker $119
Cons: fugly, less efficient, noisier, more to break
Pros: cheaper the frame mod.

<snip>

How about a cheaper tensioner?

hippy said:

So the driveline is trashed and needs replacement on the
singlespeed. I don't want to use a derrailer as a tensioner
with new parts.. so...

Surly Singleator $135 or DMR Tension Seeker $119
Cons: fugly, less efficient, noisier, more to break
Pros: cheaper the frame mod.

GripSport horizontal dropout modification $175
Cons: expensive, frame is forever ss, frame needs painting
Pros: neatest, quietest, frame is forever ss

I thought the frame mod. would be cheaper so I priced the
tensioners.. damn! I thought they were cheaper too! So,
now the frame mod. is looking good again. At the same
time, this bike was only $300.. BEFORE I ripped all the
parts off it for ss mode. I like the frame geometry, but it's still
just a cheapie.. even GripSport suggested I might be over
capitalising with this bike.. but to get something good would
cost $1k+ and I was supposed to be saving money!

Ahh [censored].. I dunno.. spend money on [censored], albeit cool
[censored] or dig deeper and replace it with something better.
Replacement would mean I probably couldn't leave it sitting
unlocked outside shops though and I'd end up keeping the
GT anyway.. maybe the derailler-tensioner IS the best
option. <bangs head on desk>

hippy apologizes for the preceeding brain dump

how cool do ya wanna be hipmeister????

"Baby I drive a chevrolet/it increases the chances of me getting laid" - The Cops

doesn't DHdirect.com.au still sell that surly tensioner knock off for about $50?

why not play around with the chainrings/cogs to get perfect tension.

koon

"Bikesoiler" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

hippy said:

So the driveline is trashed and needs replacement on the
singlespeed. I don't want to use a derrailer as a tensioner
with new parts.. so...

Surly Singleator $135 or DMR Tension Seeker $119
Cons: fugly, less efficient, noisier, more to break
Pros: cheaper the frame mod.

<snip>

'How about a cheaper tensioner?' (http://www.fortheriders.com/)

That's more like it! Know anyone with one?
Or.. will it last more than a week?
At that price though, I think I can safely be a
guinea pig.. eep.. eep..

hippy

"warrwych" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

how cool do ya wanna be hipmeister????

"Baby I drive a chevrolet/it increases the chances of me getting laid"
- The Cops

Having a cool single probably doesn't enhance my chances of
getting laid, unfortunately - although there was that flasher - but
it does increase the chance of it being nicked.
Having a crappier ss makes it less tempting to scum. But a crappy
frame covered in new parts could be almost as tempting?
I'm just wondering if it's worth upgrading the GT or if I should
move on?
With the ENO I could get Vegemite back on the road but
there's less incentive to jump stuff on the way to the shops :-)

hippy

"Koon Yong" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

doesn't DHdirect.com.au still sell that surly tensioner knock off for
about $50?

The tensioner from the link bikesoiler posted:
http://www.fortheriders.com/index.htm?459.htm&1
would work out to around $43.

Quoted message said:

why not play around with the chainrings/cogs to get perfect tension.

I don't like that method. As the chain wears out the tension
drops and top-tube "nut removal" can occur. There's other
solutions like half-links and filing the dropouts and stuff but for
all the hassle I'd rather fit a tensioner or mod. the frame.
Both of these allow the ratio to be changed easily too, which is
useful when moving from road to dirt, flat to hills.

hippy

Hippy said:

Ahh [censored].. I dunno.. spend money on [censored], albeit cool
[censored] or dig deeper and replace it with something better.
Replacement would mean I probably couldn't leave it sitting
unlocked outside shops though and I'd end up keeping the
GT anyway.. maybe the derailler-tensioner IS the best
option. <bangs head on desk>

Do you know anyone with welding or brazing kit down there? If you replaced the dropouts yourself and did it badly enough, nobody would ever steal it 🙂

Even better, if you fixed it, then if someone is unfortunate enough to nick it you'd only have to walk to the bottom of the nearest hill to retreive it.

Regards,

Suzy

"suzyj" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Do you know anyone with welding or brazing kit down there? If you
replaced the dropouts yourself and did it badly enough, nobody would
ever steal it 🙂

You're gonna keep trying to get me welding aren't you? ;-)
You do have a point, but if I'm barreling down a mountain
I'd prefer the rear wheel to stay attached to the bike. :-)

Quoted message said:

Even better, if you fixed it, then if someone is unfortunate enough to
nick it you'd only have to walk to the bottom of the nearest hill to
retreive it.

That's a great idea with only one drawback:
I'd probably never make it to the shops! ;-)
Bunnyhop.. forget to pedal.. unco crash..
I still ride this off-road, so I want it to stay "free"..

hippy ;-)

I never had a problem with the chain droping without using a tension device on a vert dropout bike.

I used 32x18 (free) for the trails and 42x16 (fixed) for the road on the same bike using a surly 1x1 double treaded hub. I had two sets of chains in the correct length to make changing gears easy. Didn't even bother to get SS-specific rings or chain (i.e. non shifting versions, unramped or not pinned) and my chain never came off in the 1.5 years I was riding that setup. In fact, the only time my chain ever came off was when I was using 32x16 with a surly tensioner. Came off a 3 feet drop, bounced around abit and my chain popped out.

With regards to chain stretch, my take is if the chain has become loose enough for it to derail, it's probably time to change it anyway.

happy upgrading.
koon

hippy said:

"Koon Yong" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

doesn't DHdirect.com.au still sell that surly tensioner knock off for
about $50?

The tensioner from the link bikesoiler posted:
http://www.fortheriders.com/index.htm?459.htm&1
would work out to around $43.

Quoted message said:

why not play around with the chainrings/cogs to get perfect tension.

I don't like that method. As the chain wears out the tension
drops and top-tube "nut removal" can occur. There's other
solutions like half-links and filing the dropouts and stuff but for
all the hassle I'd rather fit a tensioner or mod. the frame.
Both of these allow the ratio to be changed easily too, which is
useful when moving from road to dirt, flat to hills.

hippy

How tall are you hippy, I have a 18-19" singlespeed frame going cheap. It is a converted KHS ALuminium frame done by Grip Sport!

Go the chain tensioner - Sury, DMR whatever.
Sure $130-$150 is abit steep, but hassel & time spend on a cheaper option, ends up the same in the long run. Might need a spacer kit for the freewheel too - $80 if it's going onto a prev multispeeder.
My SS commute (Apollo Everest '90) 44/18 runs the DMR tensioner which is kinda crappy really - akward to tighen spring tension, makes wheel removal a [censored] etc - so I can't really see any reason why I'm recommending it maybe I want others to share in my pain.

"Koon Yong" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I never had a problem with the chain droping without using a tension
device on a vert dropout bike.

I used 32x18 (free) for the trails and 42x16 (fixed) for the road on
the same bike using a surly 1x1 double treaded hub. I had two sets of
chains in the correct length to make changing gears easy. Didn't even
bother to get SS-specific rings or chain (i.e. non shifting versions,
unramped or not pinned) and my chain never came off in the 1.5 years I
was riding that setup. In fact, the only time my chain ever came off
was when I was using 32x16 with a surly tensioner. Came off a 3 feet
drop, bounced around abit and my chain popped out.

With regards to chain stretch, my take is if the chain has become loose
enough for it to derail, it's probably time to change it anyway.

My initial setup was without derailer and it was too risky..
Because I was doing it cheap I didn't want to shell out for
a larger chainring so my setup ran too loose.. that's the root
of my issues with tensionerless..
I might have to make a date with my LBS for some
chainring/sprocket combo testing..
I swap between 32/15 and 32/17 on/off road. It'd be nice
to keep it to a rear cog swap rather than a chainring swap
too. I'll just have to checkout those ss calc websites and pick
appropriate gears, or order that cheap tensioner :-)

hippy

"rhino" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

How tall are you hippy, I have a 18-19" singlespeed frame going cheap.
It is a converted KHS ALuminium frame done by Grip Sport!

I think we've chatted before.. you won the Deluxe Dirt Crits, right?

I think it was out of my price range last time - but it was a complete
bike then, I think. I'd prefer to keep the GT (I'm very attached to it
now) but I still lust after an Inbred (kinky!). Once the GT has its
driveline and maybe headset replaced it'll be good as new.. just
the driveline is an issue.. ratios, tensioners, dropouts.. pah! ss's
were supposed to be simple damn it!! ;-)

hippy

"Marx SS" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Go the chain tensioner - Sury, DMR whatever.
Sure $130-$150 is abit steep, but hassel & time spend on a cheaper
option, ends up the same in the long run. Might need a spacer kit for

Yeah.. but I could get the dropouts modded for a little more.. that
was my boggle...

Quoted message said:

the freewheel too - $80 if it's going onto a prev multispeeder

$80 for a spacer kit!!!!! WTF?! You're talking about little alu or
plastic rings to hold the rear sprocket in the right place for good
chainline?? I put my spacers together with $0 used freewheels
from a parts bin..
..

Quoted message said:

My SS commute (Apollo Everest '90) 44/18 runs the DMR tensioner which
is kinda crappy really - akward to tighen spring tension, makes wheel
removal a [censored] etc - so I can't really see any reason why I'm
recommending it maybe I want others to share in my pain.

You're not in sales/marketing are you? ;-)

I really see no point in paying more for a chain tensioner
than a brand new derailer costs. The dropout mod or tensioner-free
options are still winning (closely followed by On-One purchase.. NOO!)

hippy ;-)

hippy said:

<further snipage>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Surly Singleator $135 or DMR Tension Seeker $119
Cons: fugly, less efficient, noisier, more to break
Pros: cheaper the frame mod.

<snip>

'How about a cheaper tensioner?' (http://www.fortheriders.com/)

That's more like it! Know anyone with one?
Or.. will it last more than a week?
At that price though, I think I can safely be a
guinea pig.. eep.. eep..

hippy

I think it was Gags who said he'd bought a tensioner from FTR.

I'd stick with the 'ole GT SS & just get the parts you need, ie chain, tensioner, cog & ring.
Service the whole bike while you're at it & she'll ride like new. 🙂

Koon Yong said:

I never had a problem with the chain droping without using a tension device on a vert dropout bike.

I used 32x18 (free) for the trails and 42x16 (fixed) for the road on the same bike using a surly 1x1 double treaded hub. I had two sets of chains in the correct length to make changing gears easy. Didn't even bother to get SS-specific rings or chain (i.e. non shifting versions, unramped or not pinned) and my chain never came off in the 1.5 years I was riding that setup. In fact, the only time my chain ever came off was when I was using 32x16 with a surly tensioner. Came off a 3 feet drop, bounced around abit and my chain popped out.

With regards to chain stretch, my take is if the chain has become loose enough for it to derail, it's probably time to change it anyway.

happy upgrading.
koon

Hippy. take a wander down to Peter Moore Cycles. Im thinkin he may either already have a ready-made vert-dropout mtb fram about (he was talking about starting to convert em to sell as every secon cutomer was hassling about SS/fixed!).
He has a framebuilder/mod guy there who Im guessin may be cheaper than $175 (and on the trainline to/from work 🙂 ).
This place is a treasure trove of stuff. not to mention Pete who is worth his (or better yet 'my'😉 weight in gold (or beer)

Make your own eccentric hub for almost no cost by filing some flats on your hub axle to allow for some more horizontal adjustment. Doing this together with using peak.org~fixinOpen ↗]Eric House's "perfect combination" calculator[/url], and going over Sheldon Brown's fixed gear page I'm sure you'll find a solution that doesn't require a tensioner at all and costs you very little if any money.

Sam

flyingdutch said:

He has a framebuilder/mod guy there who Im guessin may be cheaper than $175 (and on the trainline to/from work 🙂 ).

Treat getting the frame mod as getting a new bike, then its cheap and it is the best solution (according to hippy).
A badly patched paintjob will add to the defensive appearance.
That its SS forever is no great loss, the Cervelo would be another matter.

"Bikesoiler" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

hippy said:

<further snipage>

Quoted message said:

>
> Surly Singleator $135 or DMR Tension Seeker $119
> Cons: fugly, less efficient, noisier, more to break
> Pros: cheaper the frame mod.
>
> <snip>

'How about a cheaper tensioner?' (http://www.fortheriders.com/)

That's more like it! Know anyone with one?
Or.. will it last more than a week?
At that price though, I think I can safely be a
guinea pig.. eep.. eep..

hippy

I think it was Gags who said he'd bought a tensioner from FTR.

I'd stick with the 'ole GT SS & just get the parts you need, ie chain,
tensioner, cog & ring.
Service the whole bike while you're at it & she'll ride like new. 🙂
--
Bikesoiler

Yep, it was me......here is a picture of the tensioner that was about $35
from memory.
http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsl4xun/Picture%20007a.jpg

Here's the chain ring that was about $45 or so from memory.
http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsl4xun/Picture%20013a.jpg

And for anyone who is interested, here is a picture of the new Easton EA70
stem (same as the one I am currently selling on Ebay)
http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsl4xun/Picture%20014a.jpg

And, finally, one of the entire bike
http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsl4xun/Picture%20005a.jpg

Basically I got Chainring (38T), 2 x rear cogs (16t and 14t), the tensioner,
and the chain for about $115 or so. As you know Hippy, I am prob about the
same weight as you (if not heavier) and I have been riding my SS with the
new drivetrain for a couple of months and it has been great.

Ride On,

Gags