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Grousing about ride leaders

Started by Mike Kruger · · Last activity · 8 posts · 326 views

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Road Cycling
Published
24 June 2007
Last activity
27 June 2007
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Mike Kruger
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  1. A few questions about club ride leaders.

    It seems to me that complaining publicly to the ride leader during a ride is
    occasionally appropriate. I can think of two general sets of issues:

    1. Safety concerns
    2. Social contract concerns: if the ride is advertised to be at a 13-14 mph
    pace for 30 miles, going 16-18 mph for 40 miles isn't appropriate.

    (Perhaps there are other things that I'm forgetting.)

    But people often do complain -- possibly not realizing how petty and mean
    they sound -- and not every ride leader has a very thick skin. If you've
    ever seen this problem, how has it been dealt with?

  2. Mike Kruger said:

    But people often do complain -- possibly not realizing how petty and mean
    they sound -- and not every ride leader has a very thick skin. If you've
    ever seen this problem, how has it been dealt with?

    If I'm finding a group unsafe, I have a word with the worst offender. If
    that doesn't help, I get off. As for speed, the nominal leader usually
    isn't in control - it depends who turns up, and how hard they feeling like
    pushing. Again, if it's too fast or slow for me, I leave.

    --
    Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

  3. "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Mike Kruger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    A few questions about club ride leaders.

    It seems to me that complaining publicly to the ride leader during a


    ride

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    is occasionally appropriate. I can think of two general sets of issues:

    1. Safety concerns
    2. Social contract concerns: if the ride is advertised to be at a 13-14
    mph pace for 30 miles, going 16-18 mph for 40 miles isn't appropriate.

    (Perhaps there are other things that I'm forgetting.)

    But people often do complain -- possibly not realizing how petty and


    mean

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    they sound -- and not every ride leader has a very thick skin. If you've
    ever seen this problem, how has it been dealt with?

    There is only one way to deal with a rider complaint and that is to listen
    to him carefully and advise him that you will do what you can to correct


    the

    Quoted message said:

    problem. In other words, the customer is always right.

    However, I have seen ride leaders become argumentative. That is because


    they

    Quoted message said:

    are [censored] and should not be ride leaders in the first place. Very many
    week long bike tours especially are conducted by total [censored] who should
    not be conducting anything other than their own [censored]. It is really


    quite

    Quoted message said:

    incredible how stupid some of them can be.

    You need to have white collar types leading and conducting things. Blue
    collar types will always fail in the end because they have few if any


    people

    Quoted message said:

    (social) skills.

    I happen to be a While Collar type and an [censored] to boot. Well, that is,
    towards those that play the class game since I come from a very heavily
    laden blue collar background.

  4. Edward Dolan said:

    There is only one way to deal with a rider complaint and that is to listen
    to him carefully and advise him that you will do what you can to correct the
    problem. In other words, the customer is always right.

    I disagree. For one thing, ride participants are not customers. A ride
    is a cooperative venture. If the complaint is that the ride leader is
    not following the rules he/she set out at the beginning, or the
    generally-accepted rules of the club, that is one thing. But if a rider
    shows up expecting to be accomodated by changing the ride to his/her
    taste, despite how the ride was announced, that is the rider's problem.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    Become MicroSoft-free forever. Ask me how.

  5. As a ride leader, I've been putting MY expectations out front...

    1) I stop at stop signs. There will never be any uncertainty about
    what I will do at a stop sign.
    2) The ride pace is <x>. If you want to go faster, hope you've got a
    map.
    3) Don't come up or pass on anyone's right, unless you've been riding
    with them for years and they expect that sort of behavior from you. I
    don't know any of you that well.
    4) The maps are not classified documents. Go get one. If not, I
    guess you will be riding at the specified pace :-)
    5) We will regroup at these locations (depends on length of the ride)
    6) and I make everyone introduce themselves.

    I'll ask riders how the pace is for them during the ride, if I know
    they've been working pretty hard. I usually know which ones are
    working.

    I don't get complaints...

    Mike Kruger said:

    A few questions about club ride leaders.

    It seems to me that complaining publicly to the ride leader during a ride is
    occasionally appropriate. I can think of two general sets of issues:

    1. Safety concerns
    2. Social contract concerns: if the ride is advertised to be at a 13-14 mph
    pace for 30 miles, going 16-18 mph for 40 miles isn't appropriate.

    (Perhaps there are other things that I'm forgetting.)

    But people often do complain -- possibly not realizing how petty and mean
    they sound -- and not every ride leader has a very thick skin. If you've
    ever seen this problem, how has it been dealt with?

  6. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Mike Kruger said:

    A few questions about club ride leaders.

    It seems to me that complaining publicly to the ride leader during a ride is
    occasionally appropriate. I can think of two general sets of issues:

    1. Safety concerns
    2. Social contract concerns: if the ride is advertised to be at a 13-14 mph
    pace for 30 miles, going 16-18 mph for 40 miles isn't appropriate.

    (Perhaps there are other things that I'm forgetting.)

    But people often do complain -- possibly not realizing how petty and mean
    they sound -- and not every ride leader has a very thick skin. If you've
    ever seen this problem, how has it been dealt with?

    There's rides and then there's rides. The ones you seem to be discussing
    (15 mph, 30 mi) are pretty casual by boy-racer or
    audax/rando/Seattle-to-Portland standards. Which is fine, but the issues
    will be different.

    I assume that on these pie rides, the leader's safety responsibility
    generally amounts to ensuring the ride moves through intersections
    safely, keeping an eye out for dangerous riding in the pack, and
    hopefully picking out a route without any egregious hazards or outright
    errors.

    Social contract is clearly a concern: if the ride isn't as advertised,
    and it's a problem for some of the participants, the ride should be
    returned to the advertised form, or the ad should be changed.

    Our regular boy-racer club ride (2-3+ hours at 30 km/h, depending on how
    you finish it off; the first 2 hours is pretty much all together, and
    it's a no-drop ride with a designated sprint in the 3rd hour) has no
    designated leaders.

    There are, however, several riders who are more senior, or more
    experienced, in the club. They generally make sure that the ride doesn't
    drop people, that arrangements are made when someone has to stop for a
    flat or mechanical, and that the ride isn't going wildly over the speed
    parameters.

    Of course, this is a ride that has gone at 9 am every Saturday of the
    year for years and years. At least five, maybe even a decade. It's a
    well-established ride. All the regulars know the route off by heart,
    including the standard decision point on whether the ride will be done
    counterclockwise or clockwise (to fit best with the prevailing wind).

    If I was ever on a ride where I thought the safety issues were
    untenable, I'd either talk to the leader (if I felt it would help, and
    probably only if I knew them or the safety issue was outrageous and
    maybe endangering riders too inexperienced to understand the risk), or
    just drop off the ride. Life's too short to die on a bike. At least not
    for a few decades.

    I'm not really in the business of telling people how to run rides unless
    I've paid for the privilege.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
    "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
    to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

  7. "Lynne Fitz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    As a ride leader, I've been putting MY expectations out front...

    1) I stop at stop signs. There will never be any uncertainty about
    what I will do at a stop sign.

    I put this more generally, that we are going to obey the law, which includes
    stoping at stop lights and I usually phrase it, making an effort to stop at
    stop signs. I also say we are representing our club, and we will ride with
    courtesy to other road users.

    Quoted message said:

    2) The ride pace is <x>. If you want to go faster, hope you've got a map.

    Since I tend to lead kids'/family/beginners' rides, I usually have the
    opposite problem - people who are really unprepared even for a "leisurely"
    (10 - 12 mph) pace. With these rides it's nice to have another ride leader
    so someone can ride sweep (or be in the front) so the laggards can be
    mother-henned along.

    Quoted message said:

    5) We will regroup at these locations (depends on length of the ride)

    I tend to do stay-together rides, again, because of the type of riders I'm
    working with.

    Quoted message said:

    6) and I make everyone introduce themselves.

    Yes.

    Quoted message said:

    I'll ask riders how the pace is for them during the ride, if I know
    they've been working pretty hard. I usually know which ones are
    working.

    I also ask people not to leave the ride without telling me - otherwise, we
    might wait a long time for people to catch up who decided that they'd had
    enough.

    --
    Warm Regards,

    Claire Petersky
    http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
    See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

  8. Mike Kruger said:

    A few questions about club ride leaders.

    It seems to me that complaining publicly to the ride leader during a ride is
    occasionally appropriate. I can think of two general sets of issues:

    1. Safety concerns
    2. Social contract concerns: if the ride is advertised to be at a 13-14 mph
    pace for 30 miles, going 16-18 mph for 40 miles isn't appropriate.

    (Perhaps there are other things that I'm forgetting.)

    But people often do complain -- possibly not realizing how petty and mean
    they sound -- and not every ride leader has a very thick skin. If you've
    ever seen this problem, how has it been dealt with?

    In our club the saety issues pretty much take of themselves. We are
    club that probably averages an age in the mid 50's and almost all
    riders have many years of experience. We have very few examples of
    running lights or other obviously dangerous riding.
    The social contract, especially as to advertised speed is an issue in
    every single club have ever ridden with. When I'm leading a ride I
    will always sweep at or near the advertised speed. The exception is
    when I know all the riders well and the ride evolves(devolves) into a
    competitive ride. Then it is game on.
    But like any social contract it is a two way contract. so, most rides
    that I lead will go at ~18-20 mph on the flats and will be listed as
    such. So, I'm happy to sweep at 17 or 18 mph. But I won't sweep at 14
    mph.

    Part of the problem (I think) is that most clubs have a listing that
    uses an average speed. Well on many rides the average isn't very
    usefull. Around here we have lots of climbing. So, when we go up Mt
    Lemmon we will be climbing for a couple of hours at 7-9 mph and come
    back down at 30 mph. The average will be 14-16 mph and that doesn't
    sound very fast unless you understand that it includes 3 to 6000 feet
    if climbing depending how far we go. Or we can cruise out and back on
    a frontage road that is never more than a 1% grade at 20 mph for a
    much easier ride.

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