Greg v. Lance

If Greg wasn't the best or strongest rider...he must have been the smartest at the game! :-)

Ron Jenkins <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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Lance is obviously the dominate tour rider of his day. But Greg wasn't the best of his day. Fignon
was a better tour rider.

Don't forget that Fignon as well as Roche had physical problems. And Lemond only won '89 because
of the bars (don't forget the time he gained in the first long time trial) and in '90 he won but
wasn't the best rider.

Fignon won in '83, dominated in '84 and, in fairness, should also have won the Giro that year. And
in '89 he was the best rider. I think he also has a Tour of Spain victory but I'm not sure.

Ron

I would tend to offer a different viewpoint in that Lemond had more competition against more
talented riders than Armstrong has. Armstrong only really has Ulrich as a credible contender, who
although very talented is somewhat tactically naive and doesn't really have a killer instinct - he's
willing to settle for second place.

Lemond on the other hand competed against the very best Hinault and Fignon. Delgado and Roche were
very tactically astute and wouldn't ride second fiddle to any one - ask Giro winner Roberto
Viscentini what he thinks about Roche's desire to win. These are riders who never cared about
finishing second and would never lie down against any opposition.

No they did not.

Phil Liggit, when asked who was the most dominating rider he had seen in 30 years of cycling
broadcasting replied without hesitation: "Greg LeMond".

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P.O. Box 153 PLacida, FL 33946 [email hidden] www.FreeWheels.itgo.com Mo-Town Forever!
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"lazysegall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Brian Roth said:

[email hidden] wrote in message
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Lance Armstrong and Greg LeMond. Can anyone point me to specific results when Lance and Greg
raced in the same races? Did they ever reace in the same TdF? Worlds?

Their only TdF in common would be 1994, where Greg abandoned just

after

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returning from Great Britan. I don't think they ever did any Worlds together.

Comparing the two by when they raced together is crazy. Lance was an entirely differnt rider after
cancer and Lemond was a broken rider. If you want a comparison look at V02 max or something like
that. I know that they have been on this NG before. Some people here would be better at
interpreting though. There are all these other things to take into account that I don;t understand
well enough to explain.

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Posted via cyclingforums.com cyclingforums.comcyclingforums.comOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Lance Armstrong and Greg LeMond. Can anyone point me to specific results when Lance and Greg raced
in the same races? Did they ever reace in the same TdF? Worlds?

I believe in the 1992 Tour DuPont LeMond won the race and Armstrong placed 12th.

"Ron Jenkins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

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in '90 he won but wasn't the best rider.

Ummm ... he won, therefore he was the best rider that month;-)

s boardnbike.comboardnbike.comOpen ↗

Ron Jenkins <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Lance is obviously the dominate tour rider of his day. But Greg wasn't the best of his day. Fignon
was a better tour rider.

You must've made a wrong turn somewhere, Ron. This is rec.bicycles.racing, not rec.crack.smoking.

-RJ

Actually, I think Greg was smoking crack when he always seemed to be talking about winning 'the
double', or how many TdF's he would have won if only he hadn't been shot.

RJ

Ronaldo Jeremiah said:

Ron Jenkins <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Lance is obviously the dominate tour rider of his day. But Greg wasn't the best of his day.
Fignon was a better tour rider.

You must've made a wrong turn somewhere, Ron. This is rec.bicycles.racing, not rec.crack.smoking.

-RJ

"Ron Jenkins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Actually, I think Greg was smoking crack when he always seemed to be

talking about winning

Quoted message said:

'the double', or how many TdF's he would have won if only he hadn't

been shot.

I suggest that you buy the latest World Cycling long videos about LeMond's wins and then watch
Lance's wins. You'll see that they both had about the same competition and acquited themselves
equally. LeMond would do long breakaways which Lance doesn't really do.

Personally I think that Lance is a smarter rider than LeMond but I believe that LeMond was a
better racer.

A great deal of the difference these days that appear as good and bad days is that instead of
drinking water all night these days they rehydrate from a IV bag.

And in case you think that is usual, in the 1999 (I think) US Jr Championship, in Texas, they had
something like 2 dozen 17-18 year old racers plugged into IV's to rehydrate after the road race in
the medical tent. Guys that were carried in walked out looking like they could race again.

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Ron Jenkins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Actually, I think Greg was smoking crack when he always seemed to be

talking about winning

Quoted message said:

'the double', or how many TdF's he would have won if only he hadn't

been shot.

I suggest that you buy the latest World Cycling long videos about LeMond's wins and then watch
Lance's wins. You'll see that they both had about the same competition and acquited themselves
equally. LeMond would do long breakaways which Lance doesn't really do.

Personally I think that Lance is a smarter rider than LeMond but I believe that LeMond was a
better racer.

Armstrong is a very smart racer and tactician. He preparation is the best along with his
understanding of the requirements of having a strong/strongest team. He understands that racing the
Tour is a team sport and he has the best climbers at his disposable to help him win. How many
contenders have at their disposal super domestiques of the quality of Heras, Ruibero, Beltran (Heras
arguably the best climber racing today and a Tour contender in his own right) who can bring them to
within 30 minutes of a mountain stage finish. Armstrong then turns on the gas to gobble up one or
two minutes on his rivals. Even if he cant do this he knows that he will not lose too much time to
the specialist climbers when he's safely within 30 minutes of the finish. Any potential time that he
does lose to the climbers he will more than compensate for in the time trial.

By having such a strong team Armstrong is never isolated and open to attacks. He has limited the
possibilities of his opponents. His strong team and confidence in his ability on the final climb
means that he has effectively redefined how the Tour is won and limited the places in which it can
be won to correspond to his own strengths.

Lemond never had the strong team Armstrong had, which lead to a more open and unpredictable Tour.
When Lemond raced the big guns were left to fight it out way before the last 20-30 minutes of the
final climb.

Rik O'Shea said:

Lemond never had the strong team Armstrong had

La Vie Claire?

Rik O'Shea said:

Lemond never had the strong team Armstrong had, which lead to a more open and unpredictable Tour.
When Lemond raced the big guns were left to fight it out way before the last 20-30 minutes of the
final climb.

It is true that Lemond did not have dedicated team support early in his career, and certainly true
that he wom in 1989 in spite of having a trainwreck of a team behind him. One of the most
interesting aspects of the 1989 Tour was the interplay between PDM and Lemond and Delgado, both
ex-PDM. Lemond's victory gave PDM the dubious honor of having two straight Tour winners come
directly after leaving their team.

But it is also true that he never would have won in 1990 without the support of a much stronger team
at his disposal than Chiappucci had. If I have one major beef with the production of any WCP video
it is with the short treatment they give to the St. Etienne stage where Lemond used his superior
team strength at a much more critical point than at Luz Ardiden a few days later. There was an early
break with Pensec who was still a threat. The effort of the chase killed Carrera which allowed
Lemond to counterattack and move within striking distance of Chiappucci. If not for that loss
Chiappucci could have just followed Lemond in the remaining mountains instead of being forced to
attack. And the whole thing would have turned out differently.

Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

[email hidden] (Rik O'Shea) wrote in message
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Lemond never had the strong team Armstrong had

<snip>

Obviously you're right about ADR, but Gitane and La Vie Claire were, uh, pretty good teams.

-RJ