"Green" fluorescent bulbs

On Apr 21, 10:46?am, "James Silverton"

not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not said:

I know the bulbs have been discussed here before but I reached a
personal milestone today. All the lamps in my house that can
take them now have coiled fluorescent bulbs apart from those on
a circuit with an in-switch dimmer. I am going to live with it
but having so many to notice has confirmed that most if not all
of the bulbs take several seconds to reach full brightness.
There are several brands, including GE, but I think all the
bulbs were probably made in China.

I hate those awful lamps. The light they emit is so cold it reminds
me of death. And they really do not save electric, because they do
not pruduce the same Lumens as what they claim is a corresponding
wattage incandescent lamp. The best way to save electric is to use
all the light you need when it's needed but to shut off the lamp when
not using it... too many people have their homes lit up like a
christmas tree... you can only be in one room at a time.

On Apr 21, 9:46�am, "James Silverton"

not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not said:

I know the bulbs have been discussed here before but I reached a
personal milestone today. All the lamps in my house that can
take them now have coiled fluorescent bulbs apart from those on
a circuit with an in-switch dimmer. I am going to live with it
but having so many to notice has confirmed that most if not all
of the bulbs take several seconds to reach full brightness.
There are several brands, including GE, but I think all the
bulbs were probably made in China.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not

Just recently re did our house too. Now it has all Green lights. The
thing I like the best about them is, they last so long!!

Rosie

Sheldon wrote on 21 Apr 2007 08:30:57 -0700:

S> On Apr 21, 10:46?am, "James Silverton"
S> <not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not> wrote:
am going to live with it but having so many to notice has
??>> confirmed that most if not all of the bulbs take several
??>> seconds to reach full brightness. There are several
??>> brands, including GE, but I think all the bulbs were
??>> probably made in China.

S> I hate those awful lamps. The light they emit is so cold it
S> reminds me of death. And they really do not save electric,
S> because they do not pruduce the same Lumens as what they
S> claim is a corresponding wattage incandescent lamp.

I can't agree with your comments on lumenicity; not immediately
perhaps as I said, but within a few seconds. The fluorescents
also come in several color shades like regular straight tubes
and are not always bright white.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not

In article <[email hidden]>, "James
Silverton" <not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not> says...

Quoted message said:

I know the bulbs have been discussed here before but I reached a
personal milestone today. All the lamps in my house that can
take them now have coiled fluorescent bulbs apart from those on
a circuit with an in-switch dimmer. I am going to live with it
but having so many to notice has confirmed that most if not all
of the bulbs take several seconds to reach full brightness.
There are several brands, including GE, but I think all the
bulbs were probably made in China.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not

Same here - the entire house is CFL's now, mostly the 13W soft white
variety. The office has 27W cool white.

Put it this way, the dining room and kitchen both have chandeliers with
five bulbs each. They used to have 60W bulbs in them for a total of 300W
per fixture, now it's 13W bubls for a total of 65W or a difference of
79% in energy usage.

Put it this way, those fixtures burn for approximately 6 hours an
evening. At 300W x 30 x 6 hours days I'd be consuming 54kWh, whereas at
65W x 30 x 6 hours it only comes out to about 11.7kWh. The cost
difference just for one fixture is $7.56 for standard bulbs, down to
$1.64 for the CFL bulbs.

That's one light fixture. The only thing I'm really concerned about is
disposal since CFL's do contain mercury. I'd like to see an incentivized
recycling plan in place for them.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

On Apr 21, 10:46?am, "James Silverton"

not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not said:

I know the bulbs have been discussed here before but I reached a
personal milestone today. All the lamps in my house that can
take them now have coiled fluorescent bulbs apart from those on
a circuit with an in-switch dimmer. I am going to live with it
but having so many to notice has confirmed that most if not all
of the bulbs take several seconds to reach full brightness.
There are several brands, including GE, but I think all the
bulbs were probably made in China.

I hate those awful lamps. The light they emit is so cold it reminds
me of death. And they really do not save electric, because they do
not pruduce the same Lumens as what they claim is a corresponding
wattage incandescent lamp. The best way to save electric is to use
all the light you need when it's needed but to shut off the lamp when
not using it... too many people have their homes lit up like a
christmas tree... you can only be in one room at a time.

Step into the 21st centry Sheldon, you can get the bulbs in soft-white
now.

And I beg to differ - the CFL's here put out PLENTY of light. I'm very
happy to have made the switch. Put it this way, during the winter it
drops my electric bill by almost $150 a month. Can't argue with that.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

On Apr 21, 9:46ï¿=3Fam, "James Silverton"

not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not said:

I know the bulbs have been discussed here before but I reached a
personal milestone today. All the lamps in my house that can
take them now have coiled fluorescent bulbs apart from those on
a circuit with an in-switch dimmer. I am going to live with it
but having so many to notice has confirmed that most if not all
of the bulbs take several seconds to reach full brightness.
There are several brands, including GE, but I think all the
bulbs were probably made in China.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not

Just recently re did our house too. Now it has all Green lights. The
thing I like the best about them is, they last so long!!

Rosie

If you think those last long wait for the next wave. It's going to be
LED based and the cool thing about LED's is that they're so small you
could actually have a bulb that puts out different colored light
depending on a switch setting.

T wrote on Sat, 21 Apr 2007 12:43:28 -0400:

T> In article
T> <[email hidden]>,
T> [email hidden] says...

T> If you think those last long wait for the next wave. It's
going to be
T> LED based and the cool thing about LED's is that they're so
small you
T> could actually have a bulb that puts out different colored
light
T> depending on a switch setting.

??>> On Apr 21, 9:46ï¿=3Fam, "James Silverton"
??>> <not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not> wrote:
??>>> I know the bulbs have been discussed here before but I
??>>> reached a personal milestone today. ??>>>
??>>> James Silverton
??>>> Potomac, Maryland

??>> Just recently re did our house too. Now it has all Green
??>> lights. The thing I like the best about them is, they last
??>> so long!!
??>>
??>> Rosie

As has been mentioned, municipalities are going to have to wake
up to the mercury disposal problem until LEDs become available
at reasonable prices. Given how long the fluorescents last, the
problem is not urgent yet but will become more acute. The
quality control of coiled fluorescents is not all that great and
accidents happen. I'll bet a number of green bulbs have already
been disposed of as garbage.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not

T said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

On Apr 21, 10:46?am, "James Silverton"

not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not said:

I know the bulbs have been discussed here before but I reached a
personal milestone today. All the lamps in my house that can
take them now have coiled fluorescent bulbs apart from those on
a circuit with an in-switch dimmer. I am going to live with it
but having so many to notice has confirmed that most if not all
of the bulbs take several seconds to reach full brightness.
There are several brands, including GE, but I think all the
bulbs were probably made in China.

Quoted message said:

I hate those awful lamps.  The light they emit is so cold it reminds
me of death.  And they really do not save electric, because they do
not pruduce the same Lumens as what they claim is a corresponding
wattage incandescent lamp.  The best way to save electric is to use
all the light you need when it's needed but to shut off the lamp when
not using it... too many people have their homes lit up like a
christmas tree... you can only be in one room at a time.

Step into the 21st centry Sheldon, you can get the bulbs in soft-white
now.

It's flourescent soft white (death white), nothing like incandescent
soft white.

Quoted message said:

And I beg to differ - the CFL's here put out PLENTY of light.

What the heck is PLENTY, is that an internationally recognized
scientific electrical lighting term.. that's just your subjectivity.
Those things do have their place, I use them in out of way places like
in my basement, garage door opener, attic, and for some outbuilding
lighting, in areas where lamps are less accessable so I want them to
last longer between replacement and don't really care about the
character of the light emitted. But they absolutely do not produce
the same light in quantity and character as incandescent, and not even
as standard flourescent tube lighting. Those thingies produce harsh
little spots of weak light that can't even be directed with reflectors
so are not much use as indirect, flood, or spot lighting, and the type
of light produced does not penetrate opaque shades/diffusers very
well, much of the available lumens are lost... they pretty much need
to be used bare bulb, and not only is the light they pruduce ugly, the
bulb itself is grotesquely ugli. As I said, they are great for use in
basements... I have a few down there in little fixtures that turn on
and off depending on whether it's day or night like typical night
lights. I find any flourescent lighting quite harsh, and I detest
having my house lit to look like a prison corridor... perhaps such a
setting makes you feel right to home.

Sheldon

James Silverton' not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not said:

As has been mentioned, municipalities are going to have to wake
up to the mercury disposal problem until LEDs become available at
reasonable prices. Given how long the fluorescents last, the problem is
not urgent yet but will become more acute. The quality control of coiled
fluorescents is not all that great and accidents happen. I'll bet a number
of green bulbs have already been disposed of as garbage.

From what I've read, the mercury problem is not that large over the lifespan
of the bulb compared to incandescent bulbs. The reason is the electricity
saved, which is largely generated by burning coal, would have put out even
more mercury into the environment than the compact fluorescent bulbs.

Here's a graph comparing the amount of mercury released, CFL vs.
incandescent:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CFL_bulb_mercury_use_environment.svg

The discussion of it is contained in the article here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_fluorescent_lamp

Of course if we didn't burn so much coal in the first place, we wouldn't
have this particular issue.

--
wff_ng_7 (at) verizon (dot) net

James Silverton' not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not said:

I know the bulbs have been discussed here before but I reached a personal
milestone today. All the lamps in my house that can take them now have
coiled fluorescent bulbs apart from those on a circuit with an in-switch
dimmer. I am going to live with it but having so many to notice has
confirmed that most if not all of the bulbs take several seconds to reach
full brightness. There are several brands, including GE, but I think all
the bulbs were probably made in China.

I replaced every incandescent light in my house that could be replaced with
CFL about 13 years ago. Since you list Potomac, MD as your location, you
might remember the promotion Pepco had in that time period. They gave out
coupons that essentially got you the new CFL bulbs for free. They only gave
you a limited number of coupons, but I figured out a way to get more. I went
around to all my coworkers who had Pepco as their power company and asked
them for any coupons they weren't using. That enabled me to replace all
those incandescent bulbs for free.

Most of those CFL bulbs are still working after 13 years. The three I
replaced were all very high usage locations. Those were in the outdoor porch
light that stays on from sunset until sunrise, one in a living room
torchiere that stays on from sunset until midnight. Both of those are on
timers. The third one was in the laundry room. All the rest are still the
originals I installed in 1994.

You are right about the start times and time to come to full intensity. That
varies dramatically between the different CFL bulbs I have. Some are
instant, others take a while to start or come to full intensity. The newer
ones appear to be better in both the start time, time to come to full
intensity, and color. I suspect that the phosphors used and the type of
ballast (magnetic or electronic) makes a difference in these attributes, and
probably also affects the cost. There's a wide range of cost for the same
wattage CFL bulb.

--
wff_ng_7 (at) verizon (dot) net

T said:

And I beg to differ - the CFL's here put out PLENTY of light. I'm very
happy to have made the switch. Put it this way, during the winter it
drops my electric bill by almost $150 a month. Can't argue with that.

$150? That seems like an enormous consumption to me.
My last bill was $38.12 and the one before that was $14.99.
Almost all of that is for gas (on the same bill).
Last's month's electricity was $4.44.

Most of that was my little electric heater, the dehumidifier
in my library, and my refrigerator. All my bulbs are
incandescent.

The only motivation I'd have for moving to CFL is that
ever since I got the dehumifier, I seem to be burning out
bulbs more quickly. The one on the ceiling of the kitchen
seems to burn out the most often, probably because it's
on almost all day.

On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:02:03 -0400, "James Silverton"

not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not said:

As has been mentioned, municipalities are going to have to wake
up to the mercury disposal problem until LEDs become available
at reasonable prices. Given how long the fluorescents last, the
problem is not urgent yet but will become more acute. The
quality control of coiled fluorescents is not all that great and
accidents happen. I'll bet a number of green bulbs have already
been disposed of as garbage.

I saw a newspaper article this week about recycling "green" bulbs. I
didn't know they could be recycled and I didn't know they had a
mercury issue up to this week.

sf
who bought clothing made from wood fiber fabric a couple of weeks ago.

--
See return address to reply by email

Mark Thorson said:

T said:

And I beg to differ - the CFL's here put out PLENTY of light. I'm
very happy to have made the switch. Put it this way, during the
winter it drops my electric bill by almost $150 a month. Can't argue
with that.

$150? That seems like an enormous consumption to me.

I did some head scratching about that one, too, Mark. Assuming that he is
talking about a single family residence, the only explanation that makes
sense is that he dropped a decimal point and really meant $1.50 :-)

--
"So long, so long, and thanks for all the fish!"
Dave
www.davebbq.com

wff_ng_7 wrote on Sat, 21 Apr 2007 17:46:24 GMT:

wn> "James Silverton" <not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not> wrote:
??>> I know the bulbs have been discussed here before but I
??>> reached a personal milestone today. All the lamps in my
??>> house that can take them now have coiled fluorescent bulbs
??>> apart from those on a circuit with an in-switch dimmer. I
??>> am going to live with it but having so many to notice has
??>> confirmed that most if not all of the bulbs take several
??>> seconds to reach full brightness. There are several
??>> brands, including GE, but I think all the bulbs were
??>> probably made in China.

wn> I replaced every incandescent light in my house that could
wn> be replaced with CFL about 13 years ago. Since you list
wn> Potomac, MD as your location, you might remember the

The Giant store was selling coiled fluorescents this week in
nominal equivalent wattages of 40, 60, 75 and 100w at $1 each.
That's what allowed me to complete the changeover.

wn> Most of those CFL bulbs are still working after 13 years.

wn> You are right about the start times and time to come to
wn> full intensity. That varies dramatically between the
wn> different CFL bulbs I have. Some are instant, others take a
wn> while to start or come to full intensity. The newer ones
wn> appear to be better in both the start time, time to come to
wn> full intensity, and color. I suspect that the phosphors
wn> used and the type of ballast (magnetic or electronic) makes
wn> a difference in these attributes, and probably also affects
wn> the cost. There's a wide range of cost for the same wattage
wn> CFL bulb.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not

Dave Bugg said:

Mark Thorson said:

T said:

And I beg to differ - the CFL's here put out PLENTY of light. I'm
very happy to have made the switch. Put it this way, during the
winter it drops my electric bill by almost $150 a month. Can't argue
with that.

$150? That seems like an enormous consumption to me.

I did some head scratching about that one, too, Mark. Assuming that he is
talking about a single family residence, the only explanation that makes
sense is that he dropped a decimal point and really meant $1.50 :-)

Either that, or he lives in a palace. The type with
a large servant staff. And a live-in chauffeur,
two cooks, a head groundskeeper, and unnumbered
Mexicans.

If he can save $150 _a_month_ by switching to CFL,
I'm all for that! He was wasting more electricity
in a month than I use in two years! And I thought
I was being wasteful by running my space heater
all day long.

Other than that, I'm with Sheldon. Incandescent
lights have a continuous spectrum. Fluorescents
have an oligochromatic spectrum, with big spikes
at the emission wavelengths of its phosphors and
very little light output at other wavelengths.

God only knows what weird diseases will someday
be attributed to flickering, oligochromatic light
exposure! :-)

sf said:

who bought clothing made from wood fiber fabric a couple of weeks ago.

I believe that's called "rayon". :-)

Mark Thorson said:

T said:

And I beg to differ - the CFL's here put out PLENTY of light. I'm very
happy to have made the switch. Put it this way, during the winter it
drops my electric bill by almost $150 a month. Can't argue with that.

$150?  That seems like an enormous consumption to me.
My last bill was $38.12 and the one before that was $14.99.
Almost all of that is for gas (on the same bill).
Last's month's electricity was $4.44.

$4.44 is a pretty puny electric bill... my minimum charge for no usage
is $15/mo. My typical electric bill is $175-$200/mo., and I don't
skimp on any of the nicities; central air is on constantly, set at 68F
(yeah, I know- brrrr), I run two fridges, I have my PC on about 18
hours a day, my TV is on 24/7, I use whatever lighting I need
including outside floods all night, and even use an electric
toothbrush... I really don't skimp, I just don't leave room lights on
unnecessarily, I have this fetish about leaving lights on when no one
is in the room. For me to cut my monthly electric bill by $150 I may
as well close up shop and set up a tent with a coleman lantern. To be
perfectly frank I don't believe a word this "T" character says, not a
syllable. And you, Thorazine, you pitiful [censored], what planet do
you come from where you pay $4.44/month for electric... I think
charging my 'lectric toothbrush may use that much... you have to be
paying more than $4.44/mo just to maintain your account even if you
use nada.

T said:

And I beg to differ - the CFL's here put out PLENTY of light. I'm very
happy to have made the switch. Put it this way, during the winter it
drops my electric bill by almost $150 a month. Can't argue with that.

Surely you aren't talking about a residential setting (unless you are
Gore or Edwards)? Our total electricity bill never reaches half of your
quoted savings.

Mark Thorson said:

Dave Bugg said:

Mark Thorson said:

T wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> And I beg to differ - the CFL's here put out PLENTY of light. I'm
> very happy to have made the switch. Put it this way, during the
> winter it drops my electric bill by almost $150 a month. Can't argue
> with that.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

$150?  That seems like an enormous consumption to me.

Quoted message said:

I did some head scratching about that one, too, Mark. Assuming that he is
talking about a single family residence, the only explanation that makes
sense is that he dropped a decimal point and really meant $1.50 :-)

Either that, or he lives in a palace.  The type with
a large servant staff.  And a live-in chauffeur,
two cooks, a head groundskeeper, and unnumbered
Mexicans.

If he can save $150 _a_month_ by switching to CFL,
I'm all for that!  He was wasting more electricity
in a month than I use in two years!  And I thought
I was being wasteful by running my space heater
all day long.

Other than that, I'm with Sheldon.  Incandescent
lights have a continuous spectrum.  Fluorescents
have an oligochromatic spectrum, with big spikes
at the emission wavelengths of its phosphors and
very little light output at other wavelengths.

God only knows what weird diseases will someday
be attributed to flickering, oligochromatic light
exposure!  :-)

Well, you'd be the perfect example. hehe