Your Bloody Soap Box · Public discussion

Great News : but a cautionary message

limerickman · 2005-01-20T16:53:35+00:00

I got some very good news today - helps make life a little bit more worthwhile. 18 months ago, a man came to see me in desperate straits. His business had gone badly wrong - so much so that he was in serious trouble. His creditors were after him, the bank was after him and his marriage and family were under serious pressure. He came to see me and we reviewed his situation and it was dire. His main customer had gone out of business owing him hundreds of thousands. Unfortunately, some other customers of his had started to default and withold payments to him, because my client was experiencing cash flow problems and could not get financing to complete their work. In addition he had borrowed money from the bank and they were looking for their repayments, plus he had a mortgage to pay, kids school fees etc. Effectively, he had a bucket of debt with no income. His bank were making serious noises about his mortgage situation (€500,000 house with a mortgage of €400,000). His wife had just up sticks and left him also. I listened to his story and I told him that I would help him but I would only help him if he was prepared to trust me 100%. That meant he would have to agree with my way of doing business and to do exactly what I said at all times. The reason I wanted this commitment, will become apparent. The first thing that I did was take his list of outstanding creditors and arranged to meet with them. These were the people to whom he owed money - except the bank. We went and met these people and we honestly told them what had happened, about how he couldn't collect money owed to him etc. We managed to get agreements with all these creditors for a moritorium. They agreed to the moritorium on the basis that I believed that with a little breathing space, my client could trade his way out of his problems and repay all monies owed. In the meantime, his bank had been contacted by his wife. She poured the poison in to their ear and they institiuted proceedings against him. I contacted his bank and asked to speak to someone in charge. I was told that no one could speak to me at the branch. My client was in an utter panic at the thought of his house being re-possessed. I wrote to the local branch where his mortgage was held and I received a curt reply from his manager. This is now where my client was to trust me 100%. I asked him to give me the keys in his pocket. He handed them over. I drove to the bank with my cleint and demanded to meet with the bank manager. I was told by staff that he was not available. I told the dolly bird behind the counter, that I was just here to repay the mortgage of the house, by handing back to the keys to the bank manager and I wanted him to sign the receipt for same ! My client nearly [censored] himself - the dollybird [censored] herself and ran in to the bank manager. The manager came huffing and puffing and asked us to step in to his office. I told him loudly, that there was no need for us to go in to his office, that we had received his letter and his threat, and that we were here to close the mortgage and to repay what was owed - and that we only need him to sign a receipt and for him to take the keys. The bank manager in the meantime was trying to steer us away from the other customers. I insisted that we can do the deal on the spot - clear the mortgage there and then. The manager said quietly that the letter that was sent was just procedural and that it was a shot across the bows and that the words used in the letter were not intentional. I explained to the manager that the words - are the words - and that we wanted to discharge my client from all obligations to his precious bank. I forced the keys in to his hand. He then turned and said "please, can't we settle this reasonably ?". Then I knew we had got him. We agreed to go in to his office and to talk. The manager agreed to a moritorium on mortgage repayment for 6 months. The bank wrote off the 4 months of mortgage interest repayments, missed. That was 16 months ago. Today my client has traded his way out of his problems - the business is up and running and he has (today) managed to repay the last of his creditors that he woed money to just before his troubles began. He has also managed to keep his house and things are looking positive. I enjoyed getting one over on the bank and I was happy for my client. People are easily intimidated when it comes to banks/institutions and if you're not prepared to see the whites of their eyes, they'll streamroll you. I hope that this example will emboldne people not to sit back and take [censored] from those banks.

Started by limerickman · 20 January 2005 · Last activity 21 January 2005 · 7 posts · 1,408 views

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01 / Original postGreat News : but a cautionary messagelimerickman · 20 Jan 2005 02 / This pagePosts 1–7Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #7FredC · 21 Jan 2005

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Original section: Your Bloody Soap Box
Published: 20 January 2005
Last activity: 21 January 2005
Original author: limerickman
Posts: 7
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 1,408
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Original post
limerickman
Archived post

20 January 2005, 16:53 UTC #1

I got some very good news today - helps make life a little bit more worthwhile.
18 months ago, a man came to see me in desperate straits.
His business had gone badly wrong - so much so that he was in serious trouble.
His creditors were after him, the bank was after him and his marriage and family were under serious pressure.
He came to see me and we reviewed his situation and it was dire.
His main customer had gone out of business owing him hundreds of thousands.
Unfortunately, some other customers of his had started to default and withold payments to him, because my client was experiencing cash flow problems and could not get financing to complete their work.
In addition he had borrowed money from the bank and they were looking for their repayments, plus he had a mortgage to pay, kids school fees etc.
Effectively, he had a bucket of debt with no income.
His bank were making serious noises about his mortgage situation (€500,000
house with a mortgage of €400,000).
His wife had just up sticks and left him also.
I listened to his story and I told him that I would help him but I would only help him if he was prepared to trust me 100%.
That meant he would have to agree with my way of doing business and to do
exactly what I said at all times.
The reason I wanted this commitment, will become apparent.
The first thing that I did was take his list of outstanding creditors and arranged to meet with them.
These were the people to whom he owed money - except the bank.
We went and met these people and we honestly told them what had happened, about how he couldn't collect money owed to him etc.
We managed to get agreements with all these creditors for a moritorium.
They agreed to the moritorium on the basis that I believed that with a little
breathing space, my client could trade his way out of his problems and repay
all monies owed.
In the meantime, his bank had been contacted by his wife.
She poured the poison in to their ear and they institiuted proceedings against him.
I contacted his bank and asked to speak to someone in charge.
I was told that no one could speak to me at the branch.
My client was in an utter panic at the thought of his house being re-possessed.
I wrote to the local branch where his mortgage was held and I received a curt
reply from his manager.
This is now where my client was to trust me 100%.
I asked him to give me the keys in his pocket.
He handed them over.
I drove to the bank with my cleint and demanded to meet with the bank manager.
I was told by staff that he was not available.
I told the dolly bird behind the counter, that I was just here to repay the mortgage of the house, by handing back to the keys to the bank manager and I wanted him to sign the receipt for same !
My client nearly [censored] himself - the dollybird [censored] herself and ran in to the bank manager.
The manager came huffing and puffing and asked us to step in to his office.
I told him loudly, that there was no need for us to go in to his office, that we
had received his letter and his threat, and that we were here to close the mortgage and to repay what was owed - and that we only need him to sign a receipt and for him to take the keys.
The bank manager in the meantime was trying to steer us away from the other customers.
I insisted that we can do the deal on the spot - clear the mortgage there and then.
The manager said quietly that the letter that was sent was just procedural and that it was a shot across the bows and that the words used in the letter
were not intentional.
I explained to the manager that the words - are the words - and that we wanted to discharge my client from all obligations to his precious bank.
I forced the keys in to his hand.
He then turned and said "please, can't we settle this reasonably ?".
Then I knew we had got him.
We agreed to go in to his office and to talk.
The manager agreed to a moritorium on mortgage repayment for 6 months.
The bank wrote off the 4 months of mortgage interest repayments, missed.
That was 16 months ago.
Today my client has traded his way out of his problems - the business is up and running and he has (today) managed to repay the last of his creditors that he woed money to just before his troubles began.
He has also managed to keep his house and things are looking positive.
I enjoyed getting one over on the bank and I was happy for my client.
People are easily intimidated when it comes to banks/institutions and if you're not prepared to see the whites of their eyes, they'll streamroll you.
I hope that this example will emboldne people not to sit back and take [censored] from those banks.

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Brian Cotgrove
Archived post

21 January 2005, 12:26 UTC #2

limerickman said:
I got some very good news today - helps make life a little bit more worthwhile. I enjoyed getting one over on the bank and I was happy for my client.
People are easily intimidated when it comes to banks/institutions and if you're not prepared to see the whites of their eyes, they'll streamroll you.
I hope that this example will emboldne people not to sit back and take [censored] from those banks.
G'day Lim, mate, where were you, when the ship hit the sand for me, that's a great story, you're a champion lad and that's for sure?
The banks are full of this stuff and as you say are prepare to steam roll those who have most to lose in such situations.
The thing that is happening here is they "CON" people into having a crerdit card, usually the type who just hasn't got a clue how to manage one. They offer all types of fancy enticements, reward points, frequent flyer points, points redeemably in shops and stores, ridiculous amounts of credit.
Just recently a young woman who earned approximately AUD$42.000 a year, had three credit cards with a total of AUD$19.000. Obviously she was having trouble keeping up with servicing this enormous burden, and had to seek help.
It all came ot light on TV because someone had blown the whistle about the Bank's practices, they were of course castigated for being so stupid, in giving this person such a free rein with the cards.
Has the practice stopped "NO" are the "Banks" still at it "YES", someone has to put the brakes on these people, but who is prepared to do it, the government isn't prepared to legislate and the banks aren't prepared to look inward, so it will just go on, "adinfinitum"?
KTWIM,ADLB,UITSWYDOTLC? TBC

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limerickman
Archived post

21 January 2005, 14:43 UTC #3

Brian Cotgrove said:
G'day Lim, mate, where were you, when the ship hit the sand for me, that's a great story, you're a champion lad and that's for sure?
The banks are full of this stuff and as you say are prepare to steam roll those who have most to lose in such situations.
The thing that is happening here is they "CON" people into having a crerdit card, usually the type who just hasn't got a clue how to manage one. They offer all types of fancy enticements, reward points, frequent flyer points, points redeemably in shops and stores, ridiculous amounts of credit.
Just recently a young woman who earned approximately AUD$42.000 a year, had three credit cards with a total of AUD$19.000. Obviously she was having trouble keeping up with servicing this enormous burden, and had to seek help.
It all came ot light on TV because someone had blown the whistle about the Bank's practices, they were of course castigated for being so stupid, in giving this person such a free rein with the cards.
Has the practice stopped "NO" are the "Banks" still at it "YES", someone has to put the brakes on these people, but who is prepared to do it, the government isn't prepared to legislate and the banks aren't prepared to look inward, so it will just go on, "adinfinitum"?
KTWIM,ADLB,UITSWYDOTLC? TBC
But Brian people don't have to use credit cards.
I know all about the enticements - free this, free that and people can let their heart rule their head.
I have little sympathy with people who get in to debt on credit cards, I have to be honest.
No one compels them to use these bloody things.
The old accountancy saying is more apt than ever "a sale isn't a sale, until the moneys been banked".
This applies both to the buyer and the seller.
The anecdote I gave was a genuine situation where a businessman had put a large propertion of eggs in to one basket and when that basket went out of business, it affected so many other things.
I have to say I do not like banks - but they are a necessity it seems.
The thing is that banking has changed utterly.
You need to remember this when dealing with banks - the only way they can make money is through loans and forcing people to repay.
It's not like the old days, where you had to grovel and beg and plead for money with the banks.
Those days are gone.
The loan book of banks is an unrecognised problem.
And here is some free advice - deposits in banks are far less than their loan books.
I would wager, that if every person demanded their deposits from the bank, that the banks would not be able to meet all demands.
That is my sincere conviction.
I think you'd see a "run on the bank".
That is why I called the banks bluff in the anecdote.
What can a bank do with a re-possessed house ?
It is a cost to them - in legal fee, re-sale fees, possible court fees.
It's not in their interests to take back something - even if there is little or no hope of repayment due on a mortgage, they will cave in.
Yep, I say screw the bank - cause believe me they're screwing all of us.

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jhuskey
Archived post

21 January 2005, 14:52 UTC #4

Brian Cotgrove said:
G'day Lim, mate, where were you, when the ship hit the sand for me, that's a great story, you're a champion lad and that's for sure?
The banks are full of this stuff and as you say are prepare to steam roll those who have most to lose in such situations.
The thing that is happening here is they "CON" people into having a crerdit card, usually the type who just hasn't got a clue how to manage one. They offer all types of fancy enticements, reward points, frequent flyer points, points redeemably in shops and stores, ridiculous amounts of credit.
Just recently a young woman who earned approximately AUD$42.000 a year, had three credit cards with a total of AUD$19.000. Obviously she was having trouble keeping up with servicing this enormous burden, and had to seek help.
It all came ot light on TV because someone had blown the whistle about the Bank's practices, they were of course castigated for being so stupid, in giving this person such a free rein with the cards.
Has the practice stopped "NO" are the "Banks" still at it "YES", someone has to put the brakes on these people, but who is prepared to do it, the government isn't prepared to legislate and the banks aren't prepared to look inward, so it will just go on, "adinfinitum"?
KTWIM,ADLB,UITSWYDOTLC? TBC
OK, let me stir the pot a little. I certainly don't want any more government control. I am more an advocate of personal responsibility.
Yes there are sharks out there ready to take advantage of the weak.
I am hopeful that the gentleman the Lim helped has learned a great lesson and will be a smarter business person for it.
Although we all make mistakes ,some expensive, we should learn from these mistakes and grow wiser.
I highly support personal choice and the rewards or consequences thereof.
I have made my mistakes ,but if I get snake bite again, it will certainly be a different colored snake.

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limerickman
Archived post

21 January 2005, 15:07 UTC #5

jhuskey said:
OK, let me stir the pot a little. I certainly don't want any more government control. I am more an advocate of personal responsibility.
Yes there are sharks out there ready to take advantage of the weak.
I am hopeful that the gentleman the Lim helped has learned a great lesson and will be a smarter business person for it.
Although we all make mistakes ,some expensive, we should learn from these mistakes and grow wiser.
I highly support personal choice and the rewards or consequences thereof.
I have made my mistakes ,but if I get snake bite again, it will certainly be a different colored snake.
I take your point - maybe just to clarify, the bloke I helped, 75% of his sales were to a reputable company.
That company went bust and he couldn't get one penny out of them.
That created a whole series of other problems for him both in his business life,
his ability to repay his mortgage - and most damning off all, his wife divorcing him in a nasty breakup.
She went to his bank and told them that he (her husband) was over a barrel !
OK maybe he was slightly lax in coming to rely on that one business to the extent that he had.
Maybe he shouldn't have bought a six room detached house for €500k.
Those issues didn't help.
I think we all ought to remember that we don't own a product/house until the loan that we have used to buy that loan/product has been repaid, in full.

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jhuskey
Archived post

21 January 2005, 15:23 UTC #6

limerickman said:
I take your point - maybe just to clarify, the bloke I helped, 75% of his sales were to a reputable company.
That company went bust and he couldn't get one penny out of them.
That created a whole series of other problems for him both in his business life,
his ability to repay his mortgage - and most damning off all, his wife divorcing him in a nasty breakup.
She went to his bank and told them that he (her husband) was over a barrel !
OK maybe he was slightly lax in coming to rely on that one business to the extent that he had.
Maybe he shouldn't have bought a six room detached house for €500k.
Those issues didn't help.
I think we all ought to remember that we don't own a product/house until the loan that we have used to buy that loan/product has been repaid, in full.
Too many live beyond their means and unfortunately many default and it is left to the rest of us to pick up the slack and pay the overages.
A business which shall remain namesless had a contract with a medium sized laundry service. This business was probably their biggest client and amassed a tab of over $100,000.00 American.
The laundry service went under due to cash flow difficulties.
The irony, the large business bought the laundry service very cheap.
Whether designed of inadvertant this guy is dishonest. I have dealt with him before and his business practices are questionable.
He skirts on the edge of legal or illegal.
Solution = Avoid business dealings with him or his kind.
I sat in his office 3 hours waiting to catch him, since he would not return my calls, to fullfill an obligation he had made.
He made good on it and that was the last time I dealt with him or his business.

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FredC
Archived post

21 January 2005, 17:31 UTC #7

jhuskey said:
Too many live beyond their means and unfortunately many default and it is left to the rest of us to pick up the slack and pay the overages.
A business which shall remain namesless had a contract with a medium sized laundry service. This business was probably their biggest client and amassed a tab of over $100,000.00 American.
The laundry service went under due to cash flow difficulties.
The irony, the large business bought the laundry service very cheap.
Whether designed of inadvertant this guy is dishonest. I have dealt with him before and his business practices are questionable.
He skirts on the edge of legal or illegal.
Solution = Avoid business dealings with him or his kind.
I sat in his office 3 hours waiting to catch him, since he would not return my calls, to fullfill an obligation he had made.
He made good on it and that was the last time I dealt with him or his business.

Well that one sounds as though it's straight out of the Marks and Spencer business procedures manual.

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