Gravy and Sauces...

Bill said:

I would appreciate instructions for making various "gravies" across
the full spectrum including gravies for mashed potatoes, gravies for
chipped ham on toast, "au jus" for roast beef. Some gravies are white
while others are dark. Red Eye gravy uses pan drippings and coffee.
What is a "Roux"? What are the basic rules for making "Sauces"?

I know there are those of you who have one "special" gravy or sauce
that your friends and family members just rave about when you make
it...please share it with us!

Not asking much are you? :-)
There are lots of different sauces and different processes for making
them. Some use a basic white sauce to which various things can be added
for flavour. You start off by using melting butter in a pan and adding a
more or less equal part of flour, stirring them together and cooking for
a short time on low heat to make a roux. Then add liquid and stir
constantly and continue cooking long enough to get the flour taste out of
it. You can then add cheese, herbs, stock, mushrooms etc.

There are different ways to make gravy. You should first pour off excess
fat from the pan. Then you can either put flour directly into the pan to
make a roux, or you can degrease the pan with a liquid, like wine or
broth, and add a slurry of flour mixed with cold water. Adding flour to
hot liquid is more likely to end up as a lot of little lumps of flour.
Cook long enough to get rid of the flour taste. Seasoning should be done
at the end.

Sauces in stir fry dishes are usually made by adding some broth to the
dish in the wok and then adding a slurry of corn starch and water and
some Soy sauce. Corn starch cooks very quickly and is results in a more
or less clear, glossy sauce.

Butter can also be used for sauces, or butter and cream. One dish I like
to cook once in a while is Mango Chicken. Chicken breasts are fried
still golden brown in butter. Chopped onion and sliced peppers are then
fried in the remaining butter, and then I add mango chutney, red wine
vinegar, dijon mustard and heavy cream. The butter and cream reduce into
a nice creamy sauce.

Bill said:

I would appreciate instructions for making various "gravies" across
the full spectrum including gravies for mashed potatoes, gravies for
chipped ham on toast, "au jus" for roast beef. Some gravies are white
while others are dark. Red Eye gravy uses pan drippings and coffee.
What is a "Roux"? What are the basic rules for making "Sauces"?

That subject is a couple of books worth of info. My suggestion is to
go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauce

.....for correct terminology and then use google to find specifics
on each sauce, as some of the wikipedia examples are in "gallons"
measurements.

nb.

Bill said:

I would appreciate instructions for making various "gravies" across
the full spectrum including gravies for mashed potatoes, gravies for
chipped ham on toast, "au jus" for roast beef. Some gravies are white
while others are dark. Red Eye gravy uses pan drippings and coffee.
What is a "Roux"? What are the basic rules for making "Sauces"?

[snip]

Check out this site for a description and history of sauces. It also
has several recommendations for books on sauces.
http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodsauces.html

Personally, I find the most essential tip for sauce making is taste,
taste, taste. Never serve a sauce that you didn't test taste several
times while you were making it, or they'll boot you right out of the
saucier chef's club. Second tip would be about texture, but here you
need both experience and probably some learning from one of the books
referenced above. -aem

Wow, a complete answer to this would be huge.

I got interested in cooking a few years ago, but unfortunately I don't have
a lot of time to devote to it. As a result, I tend to learn a way of making
things, then branch off into variations. For sauces, I tend to go with a
modified Veloute' (it's a french white mother sauce made with stock). And
keep in mind, I'm not an expert. I've just come up with something that
works for me.

The basic idea is to make a roux, then mix in stock for flavoring, then
simmer to thicken.

Melt 4 tablespoons of unsalted butter in a saucepan over medium heat (or use
an equivalent amount of pan drippings, but essentially you need 4
tablespoons of fat). When the butter foams, take pan off heat and stir in 4
tablespons of flour. Put the pan back on the heat and cook, stirring every
few minutes. Cook the roux until it's the desired color... it will get
darker as it cooks. For a pure veloute', a blonde roux (straw-colored) is
called for. I cook it to whatever color best fits the desired use and
flavor (good and brown if I'm mixing in a beef stock, for example). To stop
the cooking, transfer the roux to a cool mixing bowl. Now to mix in the
stock. General rule: hot roux, use cold stock... cold roux, use hot stock.
Otherwise it won't blend smoothly.

Place the roux back in the saucepan (off the heat) and whisk in 1-cup of
liquid (chicken stock, beef stock, vegetable stock, wine, whatever). Put
pan back on medium heat and whisk in another cup. When well combined,
season with salt and pepper (white pepper for blond roux, black for the
darker shades), reduce heat and simmer for 20-30 minutes or until desired
thickness. Don't forget to skim frequently at this point. And keep in mind
the sauce will thicken as it stands.

Just before simmering, you can flavor it with whatever you want. Sauteed
garlic or shallots, tomato paste, cream, whatever you want to get a flavor
to compliment your dish.

It's a very flexible base recipe, and tastes fine on it's own, but adding
the extras can really make it special.

"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I would appreciate instructions for making various "gravies" across
the full spectrum including gravies for mashed potatoes, gravies for
chipped ham on toast, "au jus" for roast beef. Some gravies are white
while others are dark. Red Eye gravy uses pan drippings and coffee.
What is a "Roux"? What are the basic rules for making "Sauces"?

I know there are those of you who have one "special" gravy or sauce
that your friends and family members just rave about when you make
it...please share it with us!

Bill

Bill said:

I would appreciate instructions for making various "gravies" across
the full spectrum including gravies for mashed potatoes, gravies for
chipped ham on toast, "au jus" for roast beef. Some gravies are white
while others are dark. Red Eye gravy uses pan drippings and coffee.
What is a "Roux"? What are the basic rules for making "Sauces"?

I know there are those of you who have one "special" gravy or sauce
that your friends and family members just rave about when you make
it...please share it with us!

Bill

Bill,

No offense, buddy, but what you've asked for could fill one or more books!

Some chefs spend their entire careers trying to master the entire
spectrum of sauces and gravies.

So... I'm going to limit myself to a single gravy. My grandmother's
fried chicken milk gravy. Serve over mashed potatoes, biscuits, or toast.

After pan frying a chicken, pour off most of the left over fat. Scrape
up the little carmelized "bits" from the bottom of the skillet. These
will provide your gravy with lots of flavor.

Mix in a bit of flour into the oil, and stir over low heat. This is a
roux--a mixture of flour and oil. Cook it for a couple minutes to
eliminate the "floury" taste.

Carefully pour in cold milk. The amount of milk sort of depends upon how
much flour you have. Pour it in slowly and leave a little out for
thinning the gravy later if necessary.

(When mixing a roux and fluid, one should be hot and the other cold;
otherwise they won't thicken right.)

Continue to cook over low heat, stirring constantly. Do not boil, let
the gravy simmer, a few slow bubbles is all you want. As the gravy
thickens, remember that it'll thicken even more as it cools. Takes a bit
of experience to know exactly how thick to let the gravy get in the pan.
When the desired thickness, pour off into a gravy boat and serve.

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 15:45:49 -0700, PastaLover <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bill said:

I would appreciate instructions for making various "gravies" across
the full spectrum including gravies for mashed potatoes, gravies for
chipped ham on toast, "au jus" for roast beef. Some gravies are white
while others are dark. Red Eye gravy uses pan drippings and coffee.
What is a "Roux"? What are the basic rules for making "Sauces"?

I know there are those of you who have one "special" gravy or sauce
that your friends and family members just rave about when you make
it...please share it with us!

See if you can find the book, "Sauces," by James Peterson. It's very
comprehensive.

Carol

PastaLover said:

Bill said:

I would appreciate instructions for making various "gravies" across
the full spectrum including gravies for mashed potatoes, gravies for
chipped ham on toast, "au jus" for roast beef. Some gravies are white
while others are dark. Red Eye gravy uses pan drippings and coffee.
What is a "Roux"? What are the basic rules for making "Sauces"?

I know there are those of you who have one "special" gravy or sauce
that your friends and family members just rave about when you make
it...please share it with us!

Bill

Bill,

No offense, buddy, but what you've asked for could fill one or more books!

Some chefs spend their entire careers trying to master the entire
spectrum of sauces and gravies.

So... I'm going to limit myself to a single gravy. My grandmother's
fried chicken milk gravy. Serve over mashed potatoes, biscuits, or toast.

After pan frying a chicken, pour off most of the left over fat. Scrape
up the little carmelized "bits" from the bottom of the skillet. These
will provide your gravy with lots of flavor.

Mix in a bit of flour into the oil, and stir over low heat. This is a
roux--a mixture of flour and oil. Cook it for a couple minutes to
eliminate the "floury" taste.

Carefully pour in cold milk. The amount of milk sort of depends upon how
much flour you have. Pour it in slowly and leave a little out for
thinning the gravy later if necessary.

(When mixing a roux and fluid, one should be hot and the other cold;
otherwise they won't thicken right.)

Continue to cook over low heat, stirring constantly. Do not boil, let
the gravy simmer, a few slow bubbles is all you want. As the gravy
thickens, remember that it'll thicken even more as it cools. Takes a bit
of experience to know exactly how thick to let the gravy get in the pan.
When the desired thickness, pour off into a gravy boat and serve.

Easiest way to learn it is to google "Mother Sauce" See there is a
standard recipe for a type of sauce to which flavourings are added to
create a mulitude of sauces of the same gendre. This standardized sauce
is called a Mother Sauce and there are but a handful of them for
european sauces. Example a cheese sauce...1 tbsp butter 1 tbsp flour 1
cup milk. heat over medium heat a pot; put in the butter and the flour.
Stir and cook till you get a even coloured blondish paste and the flour
looses it's raw taste. Add milk bring to a boil, then simmer till it
thickens. Remove from heat and add 1 cup shredded cheddar cheese
gradually/in stages; stirring until cheese melts and the sauce gets
smooth...optional additions are mustard, nutmeg cayanne pepper (pinch of
each). See the milk flour and butter is a mother white sauce. There are
other strengths of it say 2 tbsp flour to 1 tbsp butter to 1 cup milk
etc...creates a thicker sauce but basically it is the same idea/recipe.
Now if you brown the flour it doesn't thicken as well and the browner
the flour the less it thickens (think gumbos)...So it is a flavour trade
off. Cooked Flour and butter mix is a "Roux". Just flour and butter
mixes (uncooked) has a different french name which I forget, but is also
used to thicken mixtures/fluids/broths.

PastaLover said:

(When mixing a roux and fluid, one should be hot and the other cold;
otherwise they won't thicken right.)

I disagree.

Since it's usually impractical to let the roux cool to cold, I assume
you mean the roux hot and the liquid cold. If so, claim is incorrect.
The chances of creating lumps is greatly increased by adding cold
liquids to hot rouxs. Warming ...not necessarilly hot, but at least
warm... the liquid before adding to a roux alleviates this potential
problem. A good professional whip also increases the success of a
good, lumpless sauce/gravy. I should qualify this by saying this is
particularly true when making large amounts of sauce/gravy quickly.
If one has the time to slowing dribble cold liquids into small amounts
of roux using a fork or some other non-dedicated utensil, the
likelyhood of lumps is reduced. Otherwise, there is absolutely no
difference in the ability of hot/cold liquids to thicken, as they
don't do any thickening at all till they heat up.

nb

notbob said:

Since it's usually impractical to let the roux cool to cold, I assume
you mean the roux hot and the liquid cold. If so, claim is incorrect.
The chances of creating lumps is greatly increased by adding cold
liquids to hot rouxs. Warming ...not necessarilly hot, but at least
warm... the liquid before adding to a roux alleviates this potential
problem. A good professional whip also increases the success of a
good, lumpless sauce/gravy. I should qualify this by saying this is
particularly true when making large amounts of sauce/gravy quickly.
If one has the time to slowing dribble cold liquids into small amounts
of roux using a fork or some other non-dedicated utensil, the
likelyhood of lumps is reduced. Otherwise, there is absolutely no
difference in the ability of hot/cold liquids to thicken, as they
don't do any thickening at all till they heat up.

I can't say that I ever noticed a difference between hot and cold liquids.
I always use a hot roux, making it and then adding the liquid. What I do
find to be very important is adding the liquid a little at a time at
first, and whisking constantly.

notbob said:

Since it's usually impractical to let the roux cool to cold, I assume
you mean the roux hot and the liquid cold. If so, claim is incorrect.
The chances of creating lumps is greatly increased by adding cold
liquids to hot rouxs. Warming ...not necessarilly hot, but at least
warm... the liquid before adding to a roux alleviates this potential
problem. A good professional whip also increases the success of a
good, lumpless sauce/gravy. I should qualify this by saying this is
particularly true when making large amounts of sauce/gravy quickly.
If one has the time to slowing dribble cold liquids into small amounts
of roux using a fork or some other non-dedicated utensil, the
likelyhood of lumps is reduced. Otherwise, there is absolutely no
difference in the ability of hot/cold liquids to thicken, as they
don't do any thickening at all till they heat up.

Emeril disagrees with you.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that Emeril disagrees. :-)

Bob

Dave Smith said:

notbob said:

Since it's usually impractical to let the roux cool to cold, I assume
you mean the roux hot and the liquid cold. If so, claim is incorrect.
The chances of creating lumps is greatly increased by adding cold
liquids to hot rouxs. Warming ...not necessarilly hot, but at least
warm... the liquid before adding to a roux alleviates this potential
problem. A good professional whip also increases the success of a
good, lumpless sauce/gravy. I should qualify this by saying this is
particularly true when making large amounts of sauce/gravy quickly.
If one has the time to slowing dribble cold liquids into small amounts
of roux using a fork or some other non-dedicated utensil, the
likelyhood of lumps is reduced. Otherwise, there is absolutely no
difference in the ability of hot/cold liquids to thicken, as they
don't do any thickening at all till they heat up.

I can't say that I ever noticed a difference between hot and cold liquids.
I always use a hot roux, making it and then adding the liquid. What I do
find to be very important is adding the liquid a little at a time at
first, and whisking constantly.

I've always found that if the butter and flour are incorperated...
Paste like. Ann you add enough say 1/4 cup of liquid (a good
splash)...enough to disolve the paste when well stirred, then add the
rest of the liquid. I get no lumps.

I learned it hot roux and cold liquid, and that works fine for me. I whisk
the liquid in slowly, and I get no lumps. And by cold liquid, I mean room
temperature, not removed from the fridge.

"notbob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

PastaLover said:

(When mixing a roux and fluid, one should be hot and the other cold;
otherwise they won't thicken right.)

I disagree.

Since it's usually impractical to let the roux cool to cold, I assume
you mean the roux hot and the liquid cold. If so, claim is incorrect.
The chances of creating lumps is greatly increased by adding cold
liquids to hot rouxs. Warming ...not necessarilly hot, but at least
warm... the liquid before adding to a roux alleviates this potential
problem. A good professional whip also increases the success of a
good, lumpless sauce/gravy. I should qualify this by saying this is
particularly true when making large amounts of sauce/gravy quickly.
If one has the time to slowing dribble cold liquids into small amounts
of roux using a fork or some other non-dedicated utensil, the
likelyhood of lumps is reduced. Otherwise, there is absolutely no
difference in the ability of hot/cold liquids to thicken, as they
don't do any thickening at all till they heat up.

nb

Matthew Givens said:

I learned it hot roux and cold liquid, and that works fine for me. I whisk
the liquid in slowly, and I get no lumps. And by cold liquid, I mean room
temperature, not removed from the fridge.

I learned it from my grandmother, and she used milk right from the
fridge. Never a lump.

Depending upon the liquid, I'll use room temp or from fridge. The amount
you mix in at a time, and proper mixing technique has more to do with
lumps/no lumps than the temp.

Quoted message said:

"notbob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

PastaLover said:

(When mixing a roux and fluid, one should be hot and the other cold;
otherwise they won't thicken right.)

I disagree.

Since it's usually impractical to let the roux cool to cold, I assume
you mean the roux hot and the liquid cold. If so, claim is incorrect.
The chances of creating lumps is greatly increased by adding cold
liquids to hot rouxs. Warming ...not necessarilly hot, but at least
warm... the liquid before adding to a roux alleviates this potential
problem. A good professional whip also increases the success of a
good, lumpless sauce/gravy. I should qualify this by saying this is
particularly true when making large amounts of sauce/gravy quickly.
If one has the time to slowing dribble cold liquids into small amounts
of roux using a fork or some other non-dedicated utensil, the
likelyhood of lumps is reduced. Otherwise, there is absolutely no
difference in the ability of hot/cold liquids to thicken, as they
don't do any thickening at all till they heat up.

nb

Matthew Givens said:

I learned it hot roux and cold liquid, and that works fine for me. I whisk
the liquid in slowly, and I get no lumps. And by cold liquid, I mean room
temperature, not removed from the fridge.

"notbob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

PastaLover said:

(When mixing a roux and fluid, one should be hot and the other cold;
otherwise they won't thicken right.)

I disagree.

Since it's usually impractical to let the roux cool to cold, I assume
you mean the roux hot and the liquid cold. If so, claim is incorrect.
The chances of creating lumps is greatly increased by adding cold
liquids to hot rouxs. Warming ...not necessarilly hot, but at least
warm... the liquid before adding to a roux alleviates this potential
problem. A good professional whip also increases the success of a
good, lumpless sauce/gravy. I should qualify this by saying this is
particularly true when making large amounts of sauce/gravy quickly.
If one has the time to slowing dribble cold liquids into small amounts
of roux using a fork or some other non-dedicated utensil, the
likelyhood of lumps is reduced. Otherwise, there is absolutely no
difference in the ability of hot/cold liquids to thicken, as they
don't do any thickening at all till they heat up.

nb

NotBob, you are incorrect in disagreeing with the other two posters above.
My 40 years of cooking notwithstanding, the chefs of the Food Network are
saying the one hot/one cold rule of sauces/gravies. A number of them -
including Emeril and Alton Brown - expounded on the point. AB had an
entire segment about sauces and gravies.

As far as large batches, I made sauces and gravies in quantities of one
gallon to 20 gallons on a daily basis for 10 years in the restaurant
business. I had professional pots and professional whisks. I used the
hot/cold method - as I had always done at home. There is absolutely no
difference in technique in making a pint or a gallon or more.

You said:

Quoted message said:

The chances of creating lumps is greatly increased by adding cold
liquids to hot rouxs.

This is just the opposite. The "proof", if one can call it that, is Milk
Gravy. In all the tons of milk gravy I have made, or seen, or tasted, I
have never seen lumpy milk gravy. Southerners always pour cold milk
into the hot roux and it is always smooth. Milk gravy is the first gravy
we learn to make because it is virtually foolproof - though I don't know
that all those grandmothers knew why.

You said:

Quoted message said:

If one has the time to slowing dribble cold liquids into small amounts
of roux using a fork or some other non-dedicated utensil, the
likelyhood of lumps is reduced.

Here you acknowledged that cold liquids into roux {assuming the
adjective "hot"} reduces the likelihood of lumps. That is the
point being made by the others in this part of the discussion. Your
perception that the batch size
or only a small amount of liquid added to the roux at one time makes a
difference in the incidence of lumpiness is incorrect. I always dumped
all my liquid in at once and then whisked because it took both my hands to
lift the gallon or more of liquid up and pour it in the pot. I never
drizzled and I never used a fork - even at home. AAMOF, drizzling is the
worst thing one can do - no matter the batch size.

(NB)

Quoted message said:

Otherwise, there is absolutely no

Quoted message said:

difference in the ability of hot/cold liquids to thicken, as they
don't do any thickening at all till they heat up.

the "ability to thicken" has absolutely nothing to do with hot/cold. It
has to do with hot/cold preventing lumps.

I do agree with you that the terms "hot/cold" are not totally literal. It
doesn't mean that the temps must be on the oppsite ends of the scale. And
I do consider warm, lukewarm, room temp, cool, etc. to be on the "cold"
side when dealing with "hot" roux. I've never had a problem as long as the
liquid was a fair measure cooler than the roux. (The reverse is true, as
well, and is most commonly used in [and AKA] tempering, as well as in
thickening).

Elaine, too

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 10:53:37 -0500, Bill <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I would appreciate instructions for making various "gravies" across
the full spectrum including gravies for mashed potatoes, gravies for
chipped ham on toast, "au jus" for roast beef. Some gravies are white
while others are dark. Red Eye gravy uses pan drippings and coffee.
What is a "Roux"? What are the basic rules for making "Sauces"?

I know there are those of you who have one "special" gravy or sauce
that your friends and family members just rave about when you make
it...please share it with us!

Bill

oh boy! Thanks for all your responses! I am going to have fun
experimenting with all these suggestions!

Bill

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill said:

I would appreciate instructions for making various "gravies" across
the full spectrum including gravies for mashed potatoes, gravies for
chipped ham on toast, "au jus" for roast beef. Some gravies are white
while others are dark. Red Eye gravy uses pan drippings and coffee.
What is a "Roux"? What are the basic rules for making "Sauces"?
Bill

Check a basic cookbook - Better Homes & Gardens, Betty Crocker,
Pillsbury. They all contain instruction and recipes for various gravies
and methods for making same.
--
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 1-1-2006, Sam I Am! and Hello!

In article <[email hidden]>,

notbob said:

problem. A good professional whip also increases the success of a

And in the hands of a good professional whipper, why, the results can be
really something.
--
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 1-1-2006, Sam I Am! and Hello!

Bill said:

I would appreciate instructions for making various "gravies" across
the full spectrum including gravies for mashed potatoes, gravies for
chipped ham on toast, "au jus" for roast beef. Some gravies are white
while others are dark. Red Eye gravy uses pan drippings and coffee.
What is a "Roux"? What are the basic rules for making "Sauces"?

I know there are those of you who have one "special" gravy or sauce
that your friends and family members just rave about when you make
it...please share it with us!

Bill

Gosh, you have a huge order there. I make a fair number of sauces or
gravies ranging from meat gravies to veggies sauses including salsa and
chili sauce. I'd say the ones I get the most request for are my beef
gravy, chili sauce (old homecanned recipe), and salsa - also homecanned.
The salsa verde is gaining in popularity but then my cheese sauce is
always popular. DH likes my sausage gravy but I only make that a couple
times a year. I do a lot of homecanning so have all kinds of sauces.
Most of my gravies, cheese, white sauces, or wine sauces are done on the
fly without canning. It would take me ages to type out all the recipes
and I'm still trying to catch up so I just don't have the time. I would
suggest a basic cookbook that tells you how to make the basic sauces
then add your own touches from there.

~patches~ said:

Bill said:

I would appreciate instructions for making various "gravies" across
the full spectrum including gravies for mashed potatoes, gravies for
chipped ham on toast, "au jus" for roast beef. Some gravies are white
while others are dark. Red Eye gravy uses pan drippings and coffee.
What is a "Roux"? What are the basic rules for making "Sauces"?

I know there are those of you who have one "special" gravy or sauce
that your friends and family members just rave about when you make
it...please share it with us!

Bill

Gosh, you have a huge order there. I make a fair number of sauces or
gravies ranging from meat gravies to veggies sauses including salsa and
chili sauce. I'd say the ones I get the most request for are my beef
gravy, chili sauce (old homecanned recipe), and salsa - also homecanned.
The salsa verde is gaining in popularity but then my cheese sauce is
always popular. DH likes my sausage gravy but I only make that a couple
times a year. I do a lot of homecanning so have all kinds of sauces.
Most of my gravies, cheese, white sauces, or wine sauces are done on the
fly without canning. It would take me ages to type out all the recipes
and I'm still trying to catch up so I just don't have the time. I would
suggest a basic cookbook that tells you how to make the basic sauces
then add your own touches from there.

thanks to everyone for the advice!