Grand Tour winners

Bob Martin said:

Just to keep things in perspective :

Merckx won 11 GTs : 5 Tours, 5 Giros and 1 Vuelta

Hinault won 10 GTs : 5 Tours, 3 Giros and 2 Vueltas

Indurain won 7 GTs : 5 Tours and 2 Giros.

Armstrong won 7 Tours.

The first 3 achieved the feat of winning 2 GTs in the same year.

Thanks for the perspective. It's like saying that if Tiger had won 7 Masters
and only 7 Masters that would make him the greatest golfer of all time, of
course we know he's conquered all major titles, but that's my point.

This must mean that LA is the greatest TDF rider ever.

"Manco" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:UbPEe.5269$dM3.56@trnddc04...

Quoted message said:

Bob Martin said:

Just to keep things in perspective :

Merckx won 11 GTs : 5 Tours, 5 Giros and 1 Vuelta

Hinault won 10 GTs : 5 Tours, 3 Giros and 2 Vueltas

Indurain won 7 GTs : 5 Tours and 2 Giros.

Armstrong won 7 Tours.

The first 3 achieved the feat of winning 2 GTs in the same year.

Thanks for the perspective. It's like saying that if Tiger had won 7
Masters and only 7 Masters that would make him the greatest golfer of all
time, of course we know he's conquered all major titles, but that's my
point.

Suppose we do, will you shut up and go away?

MikeW said:

This must mean that LA is the greatest TDF rider ever.

"Manco" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:UbPEe.5269$dM3.56@trnddc04...

Quoted message said:

Bob Martin said:

Just to keep things in perspective :

Merckx won 11 GTs : 5 Tours, 5 Giros and 1 Vuelta

Hinault won 10 GTs : 5 Tours, 3 Giros and 2 Vueltas

Indurain won 7 GTs : 5 Tours and 2 Giros.

Armstrong won 7 Tours.

The first 3 achieved the feat of winning 2 GTs in the same year.

Thanks for the perspective. It's like saying that if Tiger had won 7
Masters and only 7 Masters that would make him the greatest golfer of all
time, of course we know he's conquered all major titles, but that's my
point.

"Bob Martin" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think that if some champions don't participate different tour it's because
they do know they won't be able to win all of them.

Bob Martin said:

Just to keep things in perspective :

Merckx won 11 GTs : 5 Tours, 5 Giros and 1 Vuelta

Hinault won 10 GTs : 5 Tours, 3 Giros and 2 Vueltas

Indurain won 7 GTs : 5 Tours and 2 Giros.

Armstrong won 7 Tours.

The first 3 achieved the feat of winning 2 GTs in the same year.

OK, now lets keep *this* in perspective. These days, *all* the riders
in the world who have a good chance on GC focus their season on the
Tour. The competition is extremely tough; the best of the best at their
best. It is a much tougher race to win than the Giro or Vuelta... which
are deemed important only by local riders who do not have a chance in
the Tour!

In the old days it was a different story. Pretty much everyone raced
all the races all year, and did their best. As long as everyone is
doing the same thing, the racers are on a level playing field. There
was no single race that all the riders focused on... the Tour just
wasn't that big of a deal.

If Lance wanted to win the Giro and Vuelta in the same year, it would
have been easy... but then he would have compromised his conditioning
for the Tour... which is the true world championship, since it is the
only race in the world where all the best riders show up to win. He
also could have won a sizeable number of classics and world
championships... but he didn't compete in them because he didn't need
to or wish to.

Merckx was clearly dominant in his day... and Armstrong was in his. If
Armstrong had raced in Merckx's day, I imagine Merckx would have bested
him more often than not... but he is the only rider in history that I
would put above him... and I'm not sure about that.

BTW, I'm not a big Lance fan... but I can still appreciate the
incredible talent, determination, and focus it takes to win the
toughest race in the world against the best riders, 7 years in a row...
when one bad day or one unlucky moment could have lost it.

"Ron Ruff" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bob Martin said:

Just to keep things in perspective :

Merckx won 11 GTs : 5 Tours, 5 Giros and 1 Vuelta

Hinault won 10 GTs : 5 Tours, 3 Giros and 2 Vueltas

Indurain won 7 GTs : 5 Tours and 2 Giros.

Armstrong won 7 Tours.

The first 3 achieved the feat of winning 2 GTs in the same year.

OK, now lets keep *this* in perspective. These days, *all* the riders
in the world who have a good chance on GC focus their season on the
Tour. The competition is extremely tough; the best of the best at their
best. It is a much tougher race to win than the Giro or Vuelta... which
are deemed important only by local riders who do not have a chance in
the Tour!

In the old days it was a different story. Pretty much everyone raced
all the races all year, and did their best. As long as everyone is
doing the same thing, the racers are on a level playing field. There
was no single race that all the riders focused on... the Tour just
wasn't that big of a deal.

If Lance wanted to win the Giro and Vuelta in the same year, it would
have been easy... but then he would have compromised his conditioning
for the Tour... which is the true world championship, since it is the
only race in the world where all the best riders show up to win. He
also could have won a sizeable number of classics and world
championships... but he didn't compete in them because he didn't need
to or wish to.

Merckx was clearly dominant in his day... and Armstrong was in his. If
Armstrong had raced in Merckx's day, I imagine Merckx would have bested
him more often than not... but he is the only rider in history that I
would put above him... and I'm not sure about that.

BTW, I'm not a big Lance fan... but I can still appreciate the
incredible talent, determination, and focus it takes to win the
toughest race in the world against the best riders, 7 years in a row...
when one bad day or one unlucky moment could have lost it.

yes the problem is that when a leader start to focus only on the tour the
contender do the same, and finally all is different. I think the Giro should
increase its marketing to make the situation more balanced, and mountains
stage in Italy are particulary nice.

Fausto Coppi won 7 GTs: 5 Giros, 2 Tours (+KoM). He was the first rider to
double Giro/Tour in the same year (1949) repeating in 1952. He surely could
have won more without WWII (the Giro was interrupted between 1941-45 and the
Tour between 1940-46), as he had won his first Giro in 1940. Also he was not
training and peacefully waiting for the war to finish, he was in the Italian
army and was a prisoner in Africa for several months.

"Bob Martin" <[email hidden]> escribió en el mensaje
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just to keep things in perspective :

Merckx won 11 GTs : 5 Tours, 5 Giros and 1 Vuelta

Hinault won 10 GTs : 5 Tours, 3 Giros and 2 Vueltas

Indurain won 7 GTs : 5 Tours and 2 Giros.

Armstrong won 7 Tours.

The first 3 achieved the feat of winning 2 GTs in the same year.

Fausto Coppi won 7 GTs: 5 Giros, 2 Tours (+KoM). He was the first rider to
double Giro/Tour in the same year (1949) repeating in 1952. He surely could
have won more without WWII (the Giro was interrupted between 1941-45 and the
Tour between 1940-46), as he had won his first Giro in 1940. Also he was not
training and peacefully waiting for the war to finish, he was in the Italian
army and was a prisoner in Africa for several months.

"Bob Martin" <[email hidden]> escribió en el mensaje
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just to keep things in perspective :

Merckx won 11 GTs : 5 Tours, 5 Giros and 1 Vuelta

Hinault won 10 GTs : 5 Tours, 3 Giros and 2 Vueltas

Indurain won 7 GTs : 5 Tours and 2 Giros.

Armstrong won 7 Tours.

The first 3 achieved the feat of winning 2 GTs in the same year.

Fausto Coppi won 7 GTs: 5 Giros, 2 Tours (+KoM). He was the first rider to
double Giro/Tour in the same year (1949) repeating in 1952. He surely could
have won more without WWII (the Giro was interrupted between 1941-45 and the
Tour between 1940-46), as he had won his first Giro in 1940. Also he was not
training and peacefully waiting for the war to finish, he was in the Italian
army and was a prisoner in Africa for several months.

"Bob Martin" <[email hidden]> escribió en el mensaje
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just to keep things in perspective :

Merckx won 11 GTs : 5 Tours, 5 Giros and 1 Vuelta

Hinault won 10 GTs : 5 Tours, 3 Giros and 2 Vueltas

Indurain won 7 GTs : 5 Tours and 2 Giros.

Armstrong won 7 Tours.

The first 3 achieved the feat of winning 2 GTs in the same year.

Fausto Coppi won 7 GTs: 5 Giros, 2 Tours (+KoM). He was the first rider to
double Giro/Tour in the same year (1949) repeating in 1952. He surely could
have won more without WWII (the Giro was interrupted between 1941-45 and the
Tour between 1940-46), as he had won his first Giro in 1940. Also he was not
training and peacefully waiting for the war to finish, he was in the Italian
army and was a prisoner in Africa for several months.

"Bob Martin" <[email hidden]> escribió en el mensaje
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just to keep things in perspective :

Merckx won 11 GTs : 5 Tours, 5 Giros and 1 Vuelta

Hinault won 10 GTs : 5 Tours, 3 Giros and 2 Vueltas

Indurain won 7 GTs : 5 Tours and 2 Giros.

Armstrong won 7 Tours.

The first 3 achieved the feat of winning 2 GTs in the same year.

Fausto Coppi won 7 GTs: 5 Giros, 2 Tours (+KoM). He was the first rider to
double Giro/Tour in the same year (1949) repeating in 1952. He surely could
have won more without WWII (the Giro was interrupted between 1941-45 and the
Tour between 1940-46), as he had won his first Giro in 1940. Also he was not
training and peacefully waiting for the war to finish, he was in the Italian
army and was a prisoner in Africa for several months.

"Bob Martin" <[email hidden]> escribió en el mensaje
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just to keep things in perspective :

Merckx won 11 GTs : 5 Tours, 5 Giros and 1 Vuelta

Hinault won 10 GTs : 5 Tours, 3 Giros and 2 Vueltas

Indurain won 7 GTs : 5 Tours and 2 Giros.

Armstrong won 7 Tours.

The first 3 achieved the feat of winning 2 GTs in the same year.

Fausto Coppi won 7 GTs: 5 Giros, 2 Tours (+KoM). He was the first rider to
double Giro/Tour in the same year (1949) repeating in 1952. He surely could
have won more without WWII (the Giro was interrupted between 1941-45 and the
Tour between 1940-46), as he had won his first Giro in 1940. Also he was not
training and peacefully waiting for the war to finish, he was in the Italian
army and was a prisoner in Africa for several months.

"Bob Martin" <[email hidden]> escribió en el mensaje
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just to keep things in perspective :

Merckx won 11 GTs : 5 Tours, 5 Giros and 1 Vuelta

Hinault won 10 GTs : 5 Tours, 3 Giros and 2 Vueltas

Indurain won 7 GTs : 5 Tours and 2 Giros.

Armstrong won 7 Tours.

The first 3 achieved the feat of winning 2 GTs in the same year.

Ron Ruff said:

It [TdF] is a much tougher race to win than the Giro or Vuelta... which
are deemed important only by local riders who do not have a chance in
the Tour!

Basso.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

Ron Ruff said:

It [TdF] is a much tougher race to win than the Giro or Vuelta... which
are deemed important only by local riders who do not have a chance in
the Tour!

Basso.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

Ron Ruff said:

It [TdF] is a much tougher race to win than the Giro or Vuelta... which
are deemed important only by local riders who do not have a chance in
the Tour!

Basso.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

Ron Ruff said:

It [TdF] is a much tougher race to win than the Giro or Vuelta... which
are deemed important only by local riders who do not have a chance in
the Tour!

Basso.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

Ron Ruff said:

It [TdF] is a much tougher race to win than the Giro or Vuelta... which
are deemed important only by local riders who do not have a chance in
the Tour!

Basso.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

Ron Ruff said:

It [TdF] is a much tougher race to win than the Giro or Vuelta... which
are deemed important only by local riders who do not have a chance in
the Tour!

Basso.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

Ron Ruff said:

It [TdF] is a much tougher race to win than the Giro or Vuelta... which
are deemed important only by local riders who do not have a chance in
the Tour!

Basso.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu