Grand slam for Discovery!?

Quoted message said:

What are the chances that Discovery Channel rider will win La Vuelta?
Does Beltran's early exit from the Tour give him a better opportunity?

+historic question: does team Grand Slam ever happened in the past?

Not sure about the historic, I'll leave that to Bob and benjo, but I
think they've got a hell of a shot at it. If they really shoose to go
for it they are going to be hard to beat IMO.
Bill C

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What are the chances that Discovery Channel rider will win La Vuelta?
Does Beltran's early exit from the Tour give him a better opportunity?

+historic question: does team Grand Slam ever happened in the past?

Not sure about the historic, I'll leave that to Bob and benjo, but I
think they've got a hell of a shot at it. If they really shoose to go
for it they are going to be hard to beat IMO.
Bill C

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What are the chances that Discovery Channel rider will win La Vuelta?
Does Beltran's early exit from the Tour give him a better opportunity?

+historic question: does team Grand Slam ever happened in the past?

Not sure about the historic, I'll leave that to Bob and benjo, but I
think they've got a hell of a shot at it. If they really shoose to go
for it they are going to be hard to beat IMO.
Bill C

Hard to beat? I don't see it. They don't have the team for it. Who's the GC
guy? They shot their wad in the TouR. I don't see anyone who can challange a
Valverde, Gonzales, or Heras (should he find his form, as he usually does.)

trg said:

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What are the chances that Discovery Channel rider will win La Vuelta?
Does Beltran's early exit from the Tour give him a better opportunity?

+historic question: does team Grand Slam ever happened in the past?

Not sure about the historic, I'll leave that to Bob and benjo, but I
think they've got a hell of a shot at it. If they really shoose to go
for it they are going to be hard to beat IMO.
Bill C

Hard to beat? I don't see it. They don't have the team for it. Who's the GC
guy? They shot their wad in the TouR. I don't see anyone who can challange a
Valverde, Gonzales, or Heras (should he find his form, as he usually does..)

I'm going out on a limb and saying Danielson or Beltran, though I
think Danielson is too young yet. I think Heras is a write off this
year. I don't see Valverde being on form, so Maybe Gonzales. The big
question becomes how much of a team do they send? Traditionally at this
point they pack it in pretty much. My thought is that if they decide to
focus Hincappie on GC then this would be a good chance for him to
stretch it out and be an elite domestique here too whilie bettering his
climbing. I don't think these climbs suit him at all, but he could be a
huge help getting a leader to the first 1/3 of the climbs.
Gonna be fun to watch, and see what happens.
Bill C

Dans le message de
news:[email hidden],
[email hidden] <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a
déclaré :

Quoted message said:

What are the chances that Discovery Channel rider will win La Vuelta?
Does Beltran's early exit from the Tour give him a better opportunity?

+historic question: does team Grand Slam ever happened in the past?

You need advice for a betting line in Las Vegas, or something ?

You may be (doubtful) interested to know that tomorrow is the
HEW-Cyclclassics Cup, a Pro Tour event, and usually a good competition.

Racing happens all the time. You just have a limited vocabulary.
--
Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

Sandy said:

Dans le message de
news:[email hidden],
[email hidden] <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a
déclaré :

Quoted message said:

What are the chances that Discovery Channel rider will win La Vuelta?
Does Beltran's early exit from the Tour give him a better opportunity?

+historic question: does team Grand Slam ever happened in the past?

You need advice for a betting line in Las Vegas, or something ?

You may be (doubtful) interested to know that tomorrow is the
HEW-Cyclclassics Cup, a Pro Tour event, and usually a good competition.

Racing happens all the time. You just have a limited vocabulary.
--
Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

That's easy Wesseman drives the train, then Jan leads out Zabel for
the win. Why even ask.
Bill C
Bill C

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

trg said:

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What are the chances that Discovery Channel rider will win La Vuelta?
Does Beltran's early exit from the Tour give him a better opportunity?

+historic question: does team Grand Slam ever happened in the past?

Not sure about the historic, I'll leave that to Bob and benjo, but I
think they've got a hell of a shot at it. If they really shoose to go
for it they are going to be hard to beat IMO.
Bill C

Hard to beat? I don't see it. They don't have the team for it. Who's the
GC
guy? They shot their wad in the TouR. I don't see anyone who can challange
a
Valverde, Gonzales, or Heras (should he find his form, as he usually
does.)

I'm going out on a limb and saying Danielson or Beltran, though I
think Danielson is too young yet. I think Heras is a write off this
year. I don't see Valverde being on form, so Maybe Gonzales. The big
question becomes how much of a team do they send? Traditionally at this
point they pack it in pretty much. My thought is that if they decide to
focus Hincappie on GC then this would be a good chance for him to
stretch it out and be an elite domestique here too whilie bettering his
climbing. I don't think these climbs suit him at all, but he could be a
huge help getting a leader to the first 1/3 of the climbs.
Gonna be fun to watch, and see what happens.

My prediction - Azevedo, Beltran and Danielson will make a nearly unbeatable
threesome. The question will be which one will peak at the right time.

Heras WILL find his form. But unless there's enough really steep climbing in
La Vuelta, he won't shine.

Valverde will really look spectacular as usual but have his usual bad
(REALLY BAD) day.

Beloki will come into form but he's still to heavy for the climbs.

Aitor is a big question mark.

I don't believe any single team has won all three grand tours
in a year. Up until 1967 it wouldn't have been possible
due to the Tour being contested as national teams rather
than trade teams. Off the top of my head I'd say the
closest anyone has come has been Banesto in 1992. Indurain
took the Giro and Tour and Delgado got 3rd in the Vuelta.

Bill C said:

I'm going out on a limb and saying Danielson or Beltran, though I
think Danielson is too young yet. I think Heras is a write off this
year. I don't see Valverde being on form, so Maybe Gonzales. The big
question becomes how much of a team do they send? Traditionally at this
point they pack it in pretty much. My thought is that if they decide to
focus Hincappie on GC then this would be a good chance for him to
stretch it out and be an elite domestique here too whilie bettering his
climbing. I don't think these climbs suit him at all, but he could be a
huge help getting a leader to the first 1/3 of the climbs.
Gonna be fun to watch, and see what happens.
Bill C

Hincapie has been going great guns since March. He won't
be there.

Heras won for Postal with a lunch meat supporting cast.
So it certainly is possible. Azevedo has cracked the top
ten in the Tour twice, so he's certainly capable of it.
He didn't look like it in July of this year though.

Danielson isn't that young but he's still lunch meat in
my book until he wins something where the field isn't
packed with teams like Jittery F Joes.

They've got another guy besides LANCE! and Salvoldelllli
that has stood on a podium in a grand tour. Maybe Popo.

Bob Schwartz
[email hidden]

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Heras won for Postal with a lunch meat supporting cast.
So it certainly is possible.

WTF are you talking about? If you think back, the only reason Heras won
that year was because postal shattered the field in a cross wind one day and
he had Landis in a break up ahead who waited for him to drag his sorry ass
to the finish after he dropped everyone on a climb. In other words, postal
made up for Hreas's deficiencies.

-Andy B.

Andy B. said:

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Heras won for Postal with a lunch meat supporting cast.
So it certainly is possible.

WTF are you talking about? If you think back, the only reason Heras won
that year was because postal shattered the field in a cross wind one day and
he had Landis in a break up ahead who waited for him to drag his sorry ass
to the finish after he dropped everyone on a climb. In other words, postal
made up for Hreas's deficiencies.

-Andy B.

Sounds like revisionist history.
Cross wind? Do you want to say that 1'09'' lost by Valverde on stage 12
was decisive? But at the end Heras was ahead of Valverde by 2'25 mostly
due to TTs.
Time gaps between Heras and Valverde on TTs:
TTT - 35'
1st ITT - 13'
2nd ITT - 59'
3rd ITT - 14'

Coming last week Heras was more than 5 minutes behind Nozal.
Landis being ahead on stage 19 wasn't such a big deal because Heras
didn't "dropped everyone on a climb" as you said. Quite to the contrary
Heras had a strong company that included all top 10 GC riders except
main rivals Nozal and Igor and the teammate Beltran. IMO, 2003 Vuelta
was a story of the race lost by young Nozal who succumbed to the
pressure applied individually by Roberto Heras. US Postal role was at
best secondary.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Andy B. said:

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Heras won for Postal with a lunch meat supporting cast.
So it certainly is possible.

WTF are you talking about? If you think back, the only reason Heras won
that year was because postal shattered the field in a cross wind one day
and
he had Landis in a break up ahead who waited for him to drag his sorry
ass
to the finish after he dropped everyone on a climb. In other words,
postal
made up for Hreas's deficiencies.

-Andy B.

Sounds like revisionist history.
Cross wind? Do you want to say that 1'09'' lost by Valverde on stage 12
was decisive? But at the end Heras was ahead of Valverde by 2'25 mostly
due to TTs.

Are you saying that eliminating 3 major rivals is insignificant? Could
Heras have done this himself?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2003/vuelta03/?id=results/stage12

Quoted message said:

Time gaps between Heras and Valverde on TTs:
TTT - 35'
1st ITT - 13'
2nd ITT - 59'
3rd ITT - 14'

Coming last week Heras was more than 5 minutes behind Nozal.
Landis being ahead on stage 19 wasn't such a big deal because Heras
didn't "dropped everyone on a climb" as you said. Quite to the contrary
Heras had a strong company that included all top 10 GC riders except
main rivals Nozal and Igor and the teammate Beltran.

Gee, that's not significant is it?

Quoted message said:

IMO, 2003 Vuelta
was a story of the race lost by young Nozal who succumbed to the
pressure applied individually by Roberto Heras. US Postal role was at
best secondary.

Some other opinions:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2003/vuelta03/?id=news/sep03/sep04news

So do you think that Roberto would have won without postal?

Postal was plenty strong that year and I doubt Heras would have won without
them.

-Andy B.

Andy B. said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Andy B. said:

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Heras won for Postal with a lunch meat supporting cast.
> So it certainly is possible.

WTF are you talking about? If you think back, the only reason Heras won
that year was because postal shattered the field in a cross wind one day
and
he had Landis in a break up ahead who waited for him to drag his sorry
ass
to the finish after he dropped everyone on a climb. In other words,
postal
made up for Hreas's deficiencies.

-Andy B.

Sounds like revisionist history.
Cross wind? Do you want to say that 1'09'' lost by Valverde on stage 12
was decisive? But at the end Heras was ahead of Valverde by 2'25 mostly
due to TTs.

Are you saying that eliminating 3 major rivals is insignificant? Could
Heras have done this himself?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2003/vuelta03/?id=results/stage12

No. But with other strong team, yes.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Time gaps between Heras and Valverde on TTs:
TTT - 35'
1st ITT - 13'
2nd ITT - 59'
3rd ITT - 14'

Coming last week Heras was more than 5 minutes behind Nozal.
Landis being ahead on stage 19 wasn't such a big deal because Heras
didn't "dropped everyone on a climb" as you said. Quite to the contrary
Heras had a strong company that included all top 10 GC riders except
main rivals Nozal and Igor and the teammate Beltran.

Gee, that's not significant is it?

Nozal & Igor behind was significant. Having Landis for the company was
not. There were better descenders than Landis in the front group that
were interested in keeping escape clear.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

IMO, 2003 Vuelta
was a story of the race lost by young Nozal who succumbed to the
pressure applied individually by Roberto Heras. US Postal role was at
best secondary.

Some other opinions:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2003/vuelta03/?id=news/sep03/sep04news

So do you think that Roberto would have won without postal?

Postal was plenty strong that year and I doubt Heras would have won without
them.

-Andy B.

IMO, being the member of Banesto or Kelme Heras would have won that
race easier than he did with USPS. ONCE is a trickier question - I
don't pretend to know how internal team politics would work.

Bill C said:

Sandy said:

Dans le message de
news:[email hidden],
[email hidden] <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a
déclaré :

Quoted message said:

What are the chances that Discovery Channel rider will win La Vuelta?
Does Beltran's early exit from the Tour give him a better opportunity?

+historic question: does team Grand Slam ever happened in the past?

You need advice for a betting line in Las Vegas, or something ?

You may be (doubtful) interested to know that tomorrow is the
HEW-Cyclclassics Cup, a Pro Tour event, and usually a good competition.

Racing happens all the time. You just have a limited vocabulary.
--
Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

That's easy Wesseman drives the train, then Jan leads out Zabel for
the win. Why even ask.
Bill C
Bill C

Damn! I've got to stop picking them to win anything. This is
depressing.
Bill C

<[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What are the chances that Discovery Channel rider will win La Vuelta?
Does Beltran's early exit from the Tour give him a better opportunity?

+historic question: does team Grand Slam ever happened in the past?

I just heard that Beltran and some teammates werre hit by a car while
training fot the Vuelta in Southern Spain. No further details.

Quoted message said:

Landis being ahead on stage 19 wasn't such a big deal because Heras
didn't "dropped everyone on a climb" as you said.

He did drop everyone on the Navacerrada climb, but was soon caught and
helped by the Kelme and ibanesto guys, who had other ambitions.

US Postal was also pretty supportive at the TTT, 2nd at 10".

USP in Vuelta 2003? Yeah, that team sucked.

Jenko

Beltran is out of the Vuelta from a training collision with a (&*^(&*%
motorcyclist who got four riders in one swell foop.

You can tell that Spain is getting more middle class.

Tom Kunich said:

Beltran is out of the Vuelta from a training collision with a (&*^(&*%
motorcyclist who got four riders in one swell foop.

You can tell that Spain is getting more middle class.

Where have you seen Beltran eliminated?

Richard Adams said...

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

Beltran is out of the Vuelta from a training collision with a (&*^(&*%
motorcyclist who got four riders in one swell foop.

You can tell that Spain is getting more middle class.

Where have you seen Beltran eliminated?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/aug05/aug01news2

Half way down.

--
Andrew
http://www.cageofmonkeys.co.uk

Tom Kunich said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Beltran is out of the Vuelta from a training collision with a (&*^(&*%
motorcyclist who got four riders in one swell foop.

Richard Adams said...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where have you seen Beltran eliminated?

Andrew said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/aug05/aug01news2

Half way down.

Eliminated ? All it says is:
'"At this moment, I don't know if I'll be able to take part in the
Vuelta", the 34 year-old said, although his injuries were confirmed to be
only minor at the hospital later. '

Unless of course Jeff is using <FONT COLOR="white"> for the next paragraph.