GPS with maps?

dkahn400 said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

I get a kick out of the post about gliders using GPS. I guess for
finding 'good air' and such but geeezzz, I flew for years with a
Texaco roadmap, looking out the window. I didn't know how to use the
nav gear in the A/C for a long time, didn't need it.

Navigation is not so straightforward in sailplanes where you need to
follow the energy rather than simply flying from point to point,
possibly taking a climb in cloud. The best route can sometimes be many
miles off track. GPS also allows you to stretch things much further if
you can quickly find the distance and bearing to the nearest airfields
rather than having to rely on keeping in range of a visually selected
field.

--
Dave...

How many sailplane pilots also have an instrument rating(flying in
clouds)?

As for flying looking outside, when I fly, I don't fly point to point,
I just fly around, make noise outta AvGas...no need for a GPS. Think
pilots and cyclists have gotten lazy, forgeotten those essential
skills, like basic nav.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

dkahn400 said:

Navigation is not so straightforward in sailplanes where you need to
follow the energy rather than simply flying from point to point,
possibly taking a climb in cloud. The best route can sometimes be many
miles off track. GPS also allows you to stretch things much further if
you can quickly find the distance and bearing to the nearest airfields
rather than having to rely on keeping in range of a visually selected
field.

Quoted message said:

How many sailplane pilots also have an instrument rating(flying in
clouds)?

Not required, in the UK at any rate. Sailplane pilots may enter cloud
from below provided they make a radio call and have a working
artificial horizon or turn and slip.

Quoted message said:

As for flying looking outside, when I fly, I don't fly point to point,
I just fly around, make noise outta AvGas...no need for a GPS. Think
pilots and cyclists have gotten lazy, forgeotten those essential
skills, like basic nav.

There may well be something in what you say although you haven't
answered my point about being able to locate safe landing areas when
soaring becomes marginal. A GPS reduces the navigational workload to
the point where a competitive cross-country pilot would be seriously
handicapped by flying without one.

To get somewhat back on topic I've found that a good GPS also makes a
big difference in long distance cycling. I dread to think about the
number of hours I've lost, not to mention the extra miles, after going
off course in Audax events. No matter how good a navigator you might be
some route sheets are simply impossible to follow.

I use a Garmin Geko 301. This is perfect for cycling, and would also be
excellent for geo-caching. It's very small and light with a rock solid
handlebar mount, and surprisingly powerful for such a simple looking
package. It has a built-in altimeter and electronic compass to
supplement the GPS. The downside to these is decreased battery life. I
seem to get 8 to 9 hours from a pair of NiMH AAA's. This is manageable
on an Audax if you remember to change the batteries at controls before
they have actually run out.

The 301 would not suit the OP as he is looking for built-in mapping and
routing, which the Geko does not have. You need to plot the route on a
computer and upload it to the GPS as a saved track. This then gives you
a choice of following a line on the screen or a pointer. On a road or
trail the line is better; off-road the pointer. It can all be done
using free software too - Gmap Pedometer plus Easy GPS and/or GPS
Babel.

--
Dave...

G.T. said:

David L. Johnson said:

Santa brought me a Garmin 205 roadrunner for the winter holiday
celebration, but I don't think this is what I need. It is primarily
a training device. What I need is to be able to figure out where I
am, and how to get where I need to go. I need maps and route
planning, not lap times and max speed (this I can get with a
computer). OK, the Garmin has a lot of options for a cyclocomputer, but I
got
one of those.

What do you recommend for displaying maps and routes? Fortunately,
Santa kept her receipts, and is OK with my exchanging this for
something more useful.

Oh, one last thing. I only use linux, so windows-only pc interfaces
are not favored. Apparently the Garmin can connect to my machine
using gsbabel, but I do want to get connected to my computer for
route planning.

If you find any good open source mapping software I'd be interested in
hearing about it. I use garmin-utils to look at my data but so far I
haven't found anything that I can use to put that data onto a map, or
to pull from a map and put the route onto my GPS.

Google on cgpsmapper and gpsmapedit.

But the learning curve is very steep.

The cgpsmapper website has references to mapcenter where various public
domain maps are located.

- Nigel (bare beginner with the above tools).

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Kristian M Zoerhoff said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

What do you recommend for displaying maps and routes? Fortunately,
Santa kept her receipts, and is OK with my exchanging this for
something more useful.

Santa brought me a Garmin eTrex Legend Cx. It has the full mapping
interface, and has a USB interface that will let schlep GPX data back
and forth (it auto- records movement in GPX format while in motion).
It'll be a day or two before I can really put it through its paces
[1], but it looks like just what you need.

Its a good unit for cycle use. I've used the Vista-C for about 18 months,
and now have a Vista-Cx following a warranty return which resulted in a free
upgrade.

The Vista Cx has the advantage of the height data working when no satellite
signal (tree cover, steep valleys, etc).

Or the GPSMao60cx (or csx) if you want the better receiver chips at expense
of more bulk.

At the cheaper end, I think the Geko 201 has a lot to commend it.

Quoted message said:

[1] The bicycle handlebar mount was not included. She's Santa, not
God.

For "tourist" riders with handlebar bags, make a plastic (or wood) bush to
fit the garmin mount to the bar bag frame.
It means your GPS comes off the bike with the bar bag, keeps the handlebar
free of GPS clutter, and also provides some more vibration protection. Tie
the GPS lanyard to the bike bag somewhere, such that the GPS cannot fall
into the front wheel !

www.nigelcliffe.photobook.org.uk
Scroll down to the bit on Garmin bar bag mount.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Kristian M Zoerhoff said:

[1] The bicycle handlebar mount was not included. She's Santa, not
God.

For "tourist" riders with handlebar bags, make a plastic (or wood) bush to
fit the garmin mount to the bar bag frame.
It means your GPS comes off the bike with the bar bag, keeps the handlebar
free of GPS clutter, and also provides some more vibration protection. Tie
the GPS lanyard to the bike bag somewhere, such that the GPS cannot fall
into the front wheel !

www.nigelcliffe.photobook.org.uk
Scroll down to the bit on Garmin bar bag mount.

My handlebar bag does not have an integrated frame, but I've done something
similar using the included belt clip holster and lanyard to clip to the top of
the bag, with the lanyard looped around the handlebar. I've done the same thing
with my camera phone to keep it handy.

--

__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ [email hidden]
(_)/ (_)

dkahn400 said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

dkahn400 said:

Navigation is not so straightforward in sailplanes where you need to
follow the energy rather than simply flying from point to point,
possibly taking a climb in cloud. The best route can sometimes be many
miles off track. GPS also allows you to stretch things much further if
you can quickly find the distance and bearing to the nearest airfields
rather than having to rely on keeping in range of a visually selected
field.

Quoted message said:

How many sailplane pilots also have an instrument rating(flying in
clouds)?

Not required, in the UK at any rate. Sailplane pilots may enter cloud
from below provided they make a radio call and have a working
artificial horizon or turn and slip.

Quoted message said:

As for flying looking outside, when I fly, I don't fly point to point,
I just fly around, make noise outta AvGas...no need for a GPS. Think
pilots and cyclists have gotten lazy, forgeotten those essential
skills, like basic nav.

There may well be something in what you say although you haven't
answered my point about being able to locate safe landing areas when
soaring becomes marginal.

If marginal, stay around the airpatch.

A GPS reduces the navigational workload to

Quoted message said:

the point where a competitive cross-country pilot would be seriously
handicapped by flying without one.

To get somewhat back on topic I've found that a good GPS also makes a
big difference in long distance cycling. I dread to think about the
number of hours I've lost, not to mention the extra miles, after going
off course in Audax events. No matter how good a navigator you might be
some route sheets are simply impossible to follow.

I use a Garmin Geko 301. This is perfect for cycling, and would also be
excellent for geo-caching. It's very small and light with a rock solid
handlebar mount, and surprisingly powerful for such a simple looking
package. It has a built-in altimeter and electronic compass to
supplement the GPS. The downside to these is decreased battery life. I
seem to get 8 to 9 hours from a pair of NiMH AAA's. This is manageable
on an Audax if you remember to change the batteries at controls before
they have actually run out.

The 301 would not suit the OP as he is looking for built-in mapping and
routing, which the Geko does not have. You need to plot the route on a
computer and upload it to the GPS as a saved track. This then gives you
a choice of following a line on the screen or a pointer. On a road or
trail the line is better; off-road the pointer. It can all be done
using free software too - Gmap Pedometer plus Easy GPS and/or GPS
Babel.

--
Dave...

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

dkahn400 said:

There may well be something in what you say although you haven't
answered my point about being able to locate safe landing areas when
soaring becomes marginal.

If marginal, stay around the airpatch.

So, cross country tasks only to be flown at distances and on days when
it isn't a challenge. That's the sport of soaring neatly consigned to
the trash can. :-)

--
Dave...

dkahn400 said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

dkahn400 said:

There may well be something in what you say although you haven't
answered my point about being able to locate safe landing areas when
soaring becomes marginal.

If marginal, stay around the airpatch.

So, cross country tasks only to be flown at distances and on days when
it isn't a challenge. That's the sport of soaring neatly consigned to
the trash can. :-)

--
Dave...

Ohh please..soaring and sailplanes have been around a lot longer than
GPS. Nice 'tool' but not essential in anyway to flying in anything. My
point once again that the skill of VFR navigation is being eroded by
gadgets like GPS. Go flying, rely on the GPS, GPS goes sneakers up, you
had better know how to do 'heading, time, airspeed' and be able to go
to use a chart. When I flew Fighters in the USN(way before GPS), first
thing we did when flying over unfamiliar ground, anywhere, is make a
chart..and then look at it, navigate with it. All was eyeball out.

If you are prepared to decide on your route beforehand, you can use the
Foretrex and Edge units effectively with a mapping program. I have been
using a Foretrex unit to plan 30-80 mile routes in the English
countryside for my CTC group. (I use Tracklogs for the mapping
software). If you go off route, you can still use the compass display
to guide you back to your location, i.e. it helps you make the right
decision at road junctions. I have recently changed over to the Edge,
but at the moment my unit has some bugs (not sure if it is just my unit
at the moment) whereby the map display gets confused and adds branches
to the route! It also doesn't appear to have an ODO function either
which is not deleted with the route information.

There are two 'navigation' type displays but on the road, me and my
buddies prefer the heads up map display, set to around 300ft zoom
level. It clearly shows the path ahead and is easier to use when
glancing down than the squiffy arrow display of the Foretrex.

I use mine on a Mac and a PC. I think I have seen Linux drivers too.

David L. Johnson said:

Santa brought me a Garmin 205 roadrunner for the winter holiday
celebration, but I don't think this is what I need. It is primarily a
training device. What I need is to be able to figure out where I am, and
how to get where I need to go. I need maps and route planning, not lap
times and max speed (this I can get with a computer).

OK, the Garmin has a lot of options for a cyclocomputer, but I got one of
those.

What do you recommend for displaying maps and routes? Fortunately, Santa
kept her receipts, and is OK with my exchanging this for something more
useful.

Oh, one last thing. I only use linux, so windows-only pc interfaces are
not favored. Apparently the Garmin can connect to my machine using
gsbabel, but I do want to get connected to my computer for route planning.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | It is probable that television drama of high caliber and
_`\(,_ | produced by first-rate artists will materially raise the level
(_)/ (_) | of dramatic taste in the nation. -- David Sarnoff, 1939

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

dkahn400 said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

dkahn400 wrote:
> There may well be something in what you say although you haven't
> answered my point about being able to locate safe landing areas when
> soaring becomes marginal.

If marginal, stay around the airpatch.

So, cross country tasks only to be flown at distances and on days when
it isn't a challenge. That's the sport of soaring neatly consigned to
the trash can. :-)

Ohh please..soaring and sailplanes have been around a lot longer than
GPS. Nice 'tool' but not essential in anyway to flying in anything.

Where did I say it was? My comment was to your suggestion that soaring
pilots should stay local if conditions are likely to get marginal, not
to do with GPS specifically. We flew long cross countries in marginal
conditions for many years without GPS. My point was that GPS allows
pilots to push on knowing they can reach friendly landable ground in
conditions in which we would once have had to remain within glide range
of visually selected fields.

Still, it's nice to know there are at least some power pilots about who
glance out the window occasionally. :-)

BTW this is getting way off topic so maybe we ought to move over to
rec.aviation.soaring?

--
Dave...

dkahn400 said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

dkahn400 said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> dkahn400 wrote:
> > There may well be something in what you say although you haven't
> > answered my point about being able to locate safe landing areas when
> > soaring becomes marginal.
>
> If marginal, stay around the airpatch.

So, cross country tasks only to be flown at distances and on days when
it isn't a challenge. That's the sport of soaring neatly consigned to
the trash can. :-)

Ohh please..soaring and sailplanes have been around a lot longer than
GPS. Nice 'tool' but not essential in anyway to flying in anything.

Where did I say it was? My comment was to your suggestion that soaring
pilots should stay local if conditions are likely to get marginal, not
to do with GPS specifically. We flew long cross countries in marginal
conditions for many years without GPS. My point was that GPS allows
pilots to push on knowing they can reach friendly landable ground in
conditions in which we would once have had to remain within glide range
of visually selected fields.

Still, it's nice to know there are at least some power pilots about who
glance out the window occasionally. :-)

BTW this is getting way off topic so maybe we ought to move over to
rec.aviation.soaring?

--
Dave...

No thanks. I'm guessing their is more than a little conflict between
powered and non powered flying, just like sail and power-boats..just
guessing. I trundled on down to the local sailplane place, and even tho
I have 5000 hrs of jet, bug smasher time and an ATP_still $3000 to get
a sailplane rating-no thanks.

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Well, it IS gonna snow here in the Republic tomorrow, and there is
STILL about a foot of snow still here so......I guess modern
technology has once again caused the erosion of skill, technique.
Namely, the ability to use a map and compass to figure out where you
are, where you are going and where you have been. ya may have seen
them, paper, lots of pretty colors and lines on them, easy to use,
light, solar powered.

Hey, I need a GPS to find Veccios under all that snow. What's your UTM
coordinates?

--
Mike DeMicco <[email hidden]>

Mike DeMicco said:

Hey, I need a GPS to find Veccios under all that snow. What's your UTM
coordinates?

Hi Mike,
My GPS shows:
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St
Boulder, CO 80302
303-440-3535
at 13T 476825 4429971

That's going to be a pretty long ride for you - I'd recommend waiting
for better weather.
Peter

Mike DeMicco said:

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Well, it IS gonna snow here in the Republic tomorrow, and there is
STILL about a foot of snow still here so......I guess modern
technology has once again caused the erosion of skill, technique.
Namely, the ability to use a map and compass to figure out where you
are, where you are going and where you have been. ya may have seen
them, paper, lots of pretty colors and lines on them, easy to use,
light, solar powered.

Hey, I need a GPS to find Veccios under all that snow. What's your UTM
coordinates?

--
Mike DeMicco <[email hidden]>

teehee..not only another blast but now it'sCOLD....I'm actually eyeing
a set of rollers...OMG!!