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GPS Vs COMPASS

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
26 July 2005
Last activity
2 August 2005
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Richard Baker
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  1. "Norman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Richard Baker said:

    I love them both, but you don't need batteries for a compass 🙂 When


    your

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    GPS fails, the compass is still there and working fine. Use the GPS, but
    never totally rely on it

    Richard


    A sweeping assumption. Compasses can fail, be affected by certain
    rocks and local anomalies rendering it useless. You also tend to need
    a map with a compass.
    I'd thought we had progressed in newsgroups from such arguements.


    We have. However, the thrill off navigating out of pea soup by your own
    devices cannot be reproduced with with a gps unit. No doubt if I was in a
    fly by wire plane over the Pacific i would think differently.......

    Graham

  2. The message <[email hidden]>
    from Norman <[email hidden]> contains these words:

    Quoted message said:

    I would think that in another 10 years no-one will be using the
    magnetic compass and it will go the same way as the slide rule and
    logarithms when the pocket calculator became available.

    Think again. If I am still walking in 10 years time I will still be
    using my compass to orient my map and to take bearings when it is not
    immediately obvious from the lie of the land which way to go. Why?
    Because I find it much simpler and much more flexible than faffing
    around with routes and waypoints for every possible eventuality. A GPS
    (I am on my second) is a wonderful instrument for showing where you have
    been and, in extremis, where you are, but they are a waste of effort for
    fair weather navigation and only of marginally greater assistance in the
    clag.

    --
    Roger Chapman so far this year 50 summits
    New - 27 (Marilyns 13, Nuttalls 5, Outlying Fells 10)
    Repeats - 23 (Marilyns 7, Nuttalls 14, Wainwrights 12, Outlying Fells 0)

  3. "One may "want" a GPS (which is fine) but sometimes just having all you
    need already in the bag with no need for batteries etc., is quite
    sufficient."

    On one level both can fail, you could drop a compass, you could drop a
    GPS. Both are fallible! Isn't it down to each individuals risk
    assessment, wrong phrase but I'm sure you'll understand where I'mcoming
    from....

    On all serious walks, I ALWAYS have a map, compass and GPS (plus spare
    sets of batteries [AAA take an insignificant amount of space and
    weight].

  4. "Graham Seed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Norman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Richard Baker said:

    I love them both, but you don't need batteries for a compass 🙂 When


    your

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    GPS fails, the compass is still there and working fine. Use the GPS,
    but
    never totally rely on it

    Richard


    A sweeping assumption. Compasses can fail, be affected by certain
    rocks and local anomalies rendering it useless. You also tend to need
    a map with a compass.
    I'd thought we had progressed in newsgroups from such arguements.


    We have. However, the thrill off navigating out of pea soup by your own
    devices cannot be reproduced with with a gps unit. No doubt if I was in a
    fly by wire plane over the Pacific i would think differently.......

    After very extensivley using my GPS in all kinds of weather conditions and
    keeping my Silva 4 in the map bag I've seen many times when my 16 channel
    GPS cannot sync with enough satellites to get a good enough fix, and
    sometimes locating me off cliffs. This glitches have normally been put down
    to *very* harsh weather conditions such as pea-soup's.

    Take the GPS, enjoy it. But learn to nav and map read

    Steve

  5. "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    "One may "want" a GPS (which is fine) but sometimes just having all you
    need already in the bag with no need for batteries etc., is quite
    sufficient."

    On one level both can fail, you could drop a compass, you could drop a
    GPS. Both are fallible! Isn't it down to each individuals risk
    assessment, wrong phrase but I'm sure you'll understand where I'mcoming
    from....

    On all serious walks, I ALWAYS have a map, compass and GPS (plus spare
    sets of batteries [AAA take an insignificant amount of space and
    weight].


    I was on Kinder with a mate, searching for aircraft wrecks, and he
    dropped down a hillside to investigate what looked like metal. It
    wasn't.... :-)
    When he got back up to the plateau he discovered he had lost the compass
    which had been hanging on its cord round his neck.

    Now if only he had a GPS with him he would have been able to track back
    his movements very closely. As it was, he gave up after searching back
    down the hillside for half an hour whilst I tried to guide him where I
    thought he had been, using ham radio walkie-talkies. ;-)
    --
    Gordon Harris

  6. In article <[email hidden]>, Steve Ray
    <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:


    "Graham Seed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Norman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 19:49:57 +0000 (UTC), "Richard Baker"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    >I love them both, but you don't need batteries for a compass 🙂 When


    your

    Quoted message said:

    >GPS fails, the compass is still there and working fine. Use the GPS,
    >but
    >never totally rely on it
    >
    >Richard
    >
    A sweeping assumption. Compasses can fail, be affected by certain
    rocks and local anomalies rendering it useless. You also tend to need
    a map with a compass.
    I'd thought we had progressed in newsgroups from such arguements.


    We have. However, the thrill off navigating out of pea soup by your own
    devices cannot be reproduced with with a gps unit. No doubt if I was in a
    fly by wire plane over the Pacific i would think differently.......

    After very extensivley using my GPS in all kinds of weather conditions and
    keeping my Silva 4 in the map bag I've seen many times when my 16 channel
    GPS cannot sync with enough satellites to get a good enough fix, and
    sometimes locating me off cliffs. This glitches have normally been put down
    to *very* harsh weather conditions such as pea-soup's.

    In practical terms weather does not affect GPS signals - it wouldn't be
    much use as a military tool if it did.

    If you are having trouble receiving a good mix of satellites (so that a
    good position is reported) the chances are the sky is significantly
    obscured by terrain or your body. It is also a possibility that your GPS
    receiver is not very healthy :-( what model is it?

    Quoted message said:


    Take the GPS, enjoy it. But learn to nav and map read

    Sound advice.

    --

    Dominic Sexton

  7. Graham Seed <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:


    However, the thrill off navigating out of pea soup by your own
    devices cannot be reproduced with with a gps unit.

    Actually it could be reproduced exactly. It would be interesting to
    have a GPS monitor your exact meandering as you found your way out of
    the mist. It could be quite revealing for de-briefing after
    navigation exercises using the basic compass method. You couldn't do
    that with a magnetic compass. :-)

    Quoted message said:

    No doubt if I was in a
    fly by wire plane over the Pacific i would think differently.......


    Last time I tried that I was told rather sharply to switch it off.
    It was after 9/11, and I think all flights ban them now, which is a
    pity.
    It was interesting to plot some of the ground features I saw on my first
    trip, and to note the Great Circle course we flew by checking the steady
    change of heading.

    They aren't essential, but they are jolly useful, and fun.
    --
    Gordon Harris

  8. <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    On all serious walks, I ALWAYS have a map, compass and GPS (plus spare
    sets of batteries [AAA take an insignificant amount of space and
    weight].

    Don't be so paranoid about knowing where you are. As ever the Chinese
    have a useful saying which I was told only last night as it happens: "A
    man must first get lost before he can find himself". Or something like
    that. I think the actual words the bloke in the local takeaway used
    when he was waving the meat cleaver in my face were "You best [censored]
    if you want to find your way home in one piece". Very wise people the
    Chinese but they get a bit touchy if they catch you in bed with their
    wife.

  9. Dave Fawthrop said:

    On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:56:28 +0100, Alan Bremner <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    Quoted message said:

    | Unless you're on a featureless mountainside in cloud, stop to consult
    | the map then push on to the summit, only to find that you've managed
    | to drop the map somewhere en route.

    Quoted message said:

    You were on a mountain without enough wind to blow said map down into the
    nearest valley? Hmmmmm

    It doesn't always blow a hooly up here in the Highlands, y'know.
    Besides, Ortlieb map cases don't fly very well. :-)

    Al
    --
    [This space intentionally left blank]

  10. Roy' roy said:

    If you'd dropped the GPS could you have back tracked to find it with the
    map?

    Haha! Possibly, as I was following a bearing so reversing it *should*
    have taken me back on more or less the same course. It would be
    trickier spotting a small GPS amongst boulders in clag than an Ortleib
    map case though. Maybe there's a case for carrying a backup GPS for
    just that eventuality? ;-J

    Al
    --
    [This space intentionally left blank]

  11. AndyP said:

    Don't be so paranoid about knowing where you are.

    You didn't snip the previous sentence...it's a risk assessment.

    Its about being safe, e.g. keeping alive.

    If you're in an area you're not familiar and the clag descends...!?!?

  12. <SNIP>Compasses can fail, be affected by certain
    rocks and local anomalies rendering it useless. You also tend to need
    a map with a compass. </SNIP>

    Quite ... reminds me of the time, up near Beachy Head, Sussex, taking a
    bearing on the Bell Tout lighthouse, "hmmm, we're miles out!!" ... only
    to notice that we were standing right next to a barn with a corrigated
    (sp??) iron roof. Very silly!!

    Norman said:

    A sweeping assumption. Compasses can fail, be affected by certain
    rocks and local anomalies rendering it useless. You also tend to need
    a map with a compass.

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  13. " Because I find it much simpler and much more flexible than faffing
    around with routes and waypoints for every possible eventuality"

    Using a GPS like that would be cheating?!?!?

    David.

  14. On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 19:44:42 +0100, Roger <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    The message <[email hidden]>
    from Norman <[email hidden]> contains these words:

    Quoted message said:

    I would think that in another 10 years no-one will be using the
    magnetic compass and it will go the same way as the slide rule and
    logarithms when the pocket calculator became available.

    Think again. If I am still walking in 10 years time I will still be
    using my compass to orient my map and to take bearings when it is not
    immediately obvious from the lie of the land which way to go. Why?
    Because I find it much simpler and much more flexible than faffing
    around with routes and waypoints for every possible eventuality. A GPS
    (I am on my second) is a wonderful instrument for showing where you have
    been and, in extremis, where you are, but they are a waste of effort for
    fair weather navigation and only of marginally greater assistance in the
    clag.


    Clearly you must be using your GPS merely as an emergency device which
    is a shame considering the cost and benefits it has to offer.

    There is generally no need to bother with routes unless you want to
    keep to a clearly defined path which in the UK is nearly always
    visually discernable anyway.

    My technique with a GPS is to mark the position of my intended
    destination waypoint by saving the coordinates or transferring the
    position via my PC. Then do the same for the start point, eg car in
    car park at starting point at the beginning of a trek by pressing the
    appropriate buttons. This can be done quickly either at home or when
    you arrive at the start.
    Normally, with a map, if you are walking up a hill etc it is usual to
    start at the bottom and gradually follow the path to the summit
    checking your route is correct by consulting your map in combination
    with compass triangulation fixes with a compass and noting/comparing
    localised terrain features with what you see around you and what is
    printed on your map. Most of the time there is no need to even look at
    a map because in clear visibility the route would be obvious by the
    errosion caused by thousands of boots churning up the ground or
    polishing the rock surfaces.

    My method is to make use of all three ie map, compass and GPS
    Using a GPS switch on and select find/goto the destination waypoint
    and set off walking towards the destination by walking in the
    direction the compass rose pointer indicates. If you want to use a
    magnetic compass with the GPS you can set the GPS to give magnetic
    variation compensated bearings and every now and then switch on your
    GPS note the indicated bearing to destination and then transfer this
    to your compass and use that bearing to steer with. Using this method
    you can wander around exploring as you go. If you want to get back on
    a path, find your position using the GPS, note coordinates, look at
    map and locate present position and then work out bearing to nearest
    point on path either by compass or entering coordinates of path
    waypoint and getting the bearing to this new path waypoint from GPS
    reading. Once on path put everything back in rucksack and plod up to
    the top.

    At top use car or start position as new destination and just do same
    procedure as previous or follow path down hill.

    Interestingly all ordnance survey maps are now corrected using GPS
    derived coordinates. The triangulation points on hill tops serve as a
    nostalgic reminder of the effort that went into producing the maps.

    I look forward to the day when one can buy a device that you can put
    in your pocket and when you want to know where you are you can just
    ask it to tell you or show you on a 1 in 25000 colour map.

    Norman

  15. <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Its about being safe, e.g. keeping alive.

    If you're in an area you're not familiar and the clag descends...!?!?

    Walking is a lot more than sticking one foot in front of the other,
    looking at the view and periodically stuffing your face with Kendal Mint
    Cake. It's about 'connecting'.... connecting with yourself, connecting
    with the land, connecting with the past, connecting with the future and
    connecting with all aspects of the spiritual universe in general.
    Connecting with satellites is only going to get in the way of all that.
    It's like when you were a confused teenager praying for God to help you
    get off with the girl next door whilst having 666 scrawled on your arm
    in biro and listening to Iron Maiden records backwards. God hates Iron
    Maiden so it's never going to happen. (IMHO, ASBO, DFS etc).

  16. "There is generally no need to bother with routes unless you want to
    keep to a clearly defined path which in the UK is nearly always
    visually discernable anyway."

    Are you sure!!!! Perhaps that statement is correct for most of the more
    popular hills and popular routes. However the majority of my walks
    seem to be pathless for a large proportion of the walk or perhaps I'm
    just perverse in my route selection?

  17. Norman said:

    Clearly you must be using your GPS merely as an emergency device which
    is a shame considering the cost and benefits it has to offer.

    Up to a point. If the benefits are something I have no particular
    interest in then there's really not much point me using them just
    because they're there. I have a GPS. I rarely take it walking because
    it's rarely worth the bother for what I want. So why bother at all?
    Because it's really good for ski touring, especially in Norway where
    lack of practice with the maps renders the 20m contour interval
    potentially a bit confusing at times.

    Quoted message said:

    There is generally no need to bother with routes unless you want to
    keep to a clearly defined path which in the UK is nearly always
    visually discernable anyway.

    Is it? I know we don't get so much snow any more, but it does rather
    cover paths when it's down. And there's plenty of cross country ro be
    done where paths don't exist to any real extent beyond what the sheep
    and deer have laid in for themselves. And so on.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  18. " It's about 'connecting'..."

    Sorry, fail to see the "connection" between safety and failing to
    connect with the environment?

  19. email hidden said:

    "There is generally no need to bother with routes unless you want to
    keep to a clearly defined path which in the UK is nearly always
    visually discernable anyway."

    Are you sure!!!! Perhaps that statement is correct for most of the more
    popular hills and popular routes. However the majority of my walks
    seem to be pathless for a large proportion of the walk or perhaps I'm
    just perverse in my route selection?

    No - I make up my route as I go along much of the time, and it's
    pathless a lot of the way. All I use the GPS for when walking is
    getting the occasional position check, or confirming that I'm at the
    summit, or sometimes marking a place I want more info on later.
    Mind you, I hardly ever use the compass either - and if I do it's just
    to get the map the right way. I just can't be bothered with all the
    fiddling about.
    --
    R
    o
    o
    n
    e
    y

    "I always knew the entire Green party were nutters" - Ken Livingstone

  20. Quoted message said:

    You didn't snip the previous sentence...it's a risk assessment.

    Its about being safe, e.g. keeping alive.

    If you're in an area you're not familiar and the clag descends...!?!?

    It's not difficult to come up with a what-if scenario to justify a GPS.
    Or a mobile 'phone, or a first aid kit, or... all sorts of things,
    really. But the fact is that not many people get into danger they can't
    extricate themselves from on the hill, and have been doing so for decades.

    If you feel happier with a GPS, take a GPS. But that's not the same as
    if you feel happier with a GPS, everyone should feel the same.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

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