GPS questions

"Tumbleweed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Looking at getting a GPS. I can either go for a basic model (which will

let

Quoted message said:

me work out where on a map I am if I get lost), or one where you can
actually store routes and see which way to turn at each junction (I'll be

on

Quoted message said:

road, not off).
However, from what I can see most of the mapping units only contain major
roads, rather than all the little country lanes etc I'll be trying to in

use.

Quoted message said:

Is this correct, so that I should only be looking at a basic unit, or are
there downloadable maps that contain all the little lanes and bridlepaths,
etc?

Also, any other considerations for a GPS on a bike?

Basic units (such as the plain vanilla e-trex) allow you to store routes
which will show you where and which way to turn etc. What they will not do
is provide a map overlay on this data so you either need to take it on faith
that your programming was right or check on a paper map. (I navigated for
six weeks round India using exactly that method).

Sophisticated units with map overlays show you a bit of the map on screen.
Whether local roads are shown depends what level of map overlay you have.
In principle you can put any level of overlay in from 'Motorways of Europe'
down to 'My Back Garden full scae'.

It seems you may have a misconception of what a GPS does. It shows you
where you are, it allows you to set target points and follow a heading
towards them and, if you link these target points up it allows you to follow
a track. While you need a map (or better, mapping software as this speeds
up the whole operation) to set the location of these target points are
simply locations in the GPS memory that are compared with where you are
(based on the location of satellites in the sky).

For on bike use you need (IMHO)

* A small, hand-held unit with a handle bar clamp.

* A clear display.

* Simple software to programme in your planned routes (GPS Trackmaker
is shareware that works. You will need to scan in an OS or equivalent map)

T

"Tony W" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tumbleweed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Looking at getting a GPS. I can either go for a basic model (which will

let

Quoted message said:

me work out where on a map I am if I get lost), or one where you can
actually store routes and see which way to turn at each junction (I'll

be

Quoted message said:

on

Quoted message said:

road, not off).
However, from what I can see most of the mapping units only contain

major

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

roads, rather than all the little country lanes etc I'll be trying to in

use.

Quoted message said:

Is this correct, so that I should only be looking at a basic unit, or

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

there downloadable maps that contain all the little lanes and

bridlepaths,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

etc?

Also, any other considerations for a GPS on a bike?

Basic units (such as the plain vanilla e-trex) allow you to store routes
which will show you where and which way to turn etc. What they will not

do

Quoted message said:

is provide a map overlay on this data so you either need to take it on

faith

Quoted message said:

that your programming was right or check on a paper map. (I navigated for
six weeks round India using exactly that method).

Sophisticated units with map overlays show you a bit of the map on screen.
Whether local roads are shown depends what level of map overlay you have.
In principle you can put any level of overlay in from 'Motorways of

Europe'

Quoted message said:

down to 'My Back Garden full scae'.

It seems you may have a misconception of what a GPS does. It shows you
where you are, it allows you to set target points and follow a heading
towards them and, if you link these target points up it allows you to

follow

Quoted message said:

a track. While you need a map (or better, mapping software as this speeds
up the whole operation) to set the location of these target points are
simply locations in the GPS memory that are compared with where you are
(based on the location of satellites in the sky).

Thanks, no i understand that, I was really asking (obviously not very well
:-) if there are downloadable maps for mapping capable GPS units that
contain *all* the UK roads, not just the majors. But it sounds like I might
as well go for a cheaper unit, scan in my own maps (and set the coordinates
appropriately I presume), and then set the way points myself. 'thinking
aloud' that would also let me define my exact route rather than fight with
whatever algorithm is used to determine a route in the device.

So as you suggest later (snipped) I could scan maps in, (or go for a
purchased map system), and then plot my own routes and then upload. Sounds
like the way to go.

SWMBO will also be pleased, as that will be cheaper , £150 or less for the
unit, rather than £250+ :-)

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

"Tumbleweed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thanks, no i understand that, I was really asking (obviously not very well
:-) if there are downloadable maps for mapping capable GPS units that
contain *all* the UK roads, not just the majors. But it sounds like I

might

Quoted message said:

as well go for a cheaper unit, scan in my own maps (and set the

coordinates

Quoted message said:

appropriately I presume), and then set the way points myself. 'thinking
aloud' that would also let me define my exact route rather than fight with
whatever algorithm is used to determine a route in the device.

So as you suggest later (snipped) I could scan maps in, (or go for a
purchased map system), and then plot my own routes and then upload. Sounds
like the way to go.

SWMBO will also be pleased, as that will be cheaper , £150 or less for the
unit, rather than £250+ :-)

To some extent it depends what you are looking for from your GPS. I have
used mine principally for route finding in places I don't know or targeting
specific places (e.g. if I am driving to see a client).

For the former I use Trackmaker -- though there are better systems with
proper software maps available that will generate tracks (Memory map for
one). I don't know if 'route finding' software can also produce GPS
tracks -- my guess would be that it can but this is less interesting for me
when cycling ('cos I don't want to use the M25!!)

For the latter I tend to use www.streetmap.co.uk, feed in a postcode, read
off and manually enter the location coordinates. This is great because I
just turn the GPS on once I'm within, say, 5 miles and follow my nose to the
door.

I've found the basic e-trex perfect for just about everything I've wanted to
do with it (including downloading some white knuckle MTB routes in Spain;
finding WTF I am when lost in deepest Hertfordshire; planning and following
a route for six weeks in India and planning and leading a CTC ride; carrying
in the car to find clients, friends and others; carrying in strange places
(e.g. Tokyo and Delhi) so I could find my way back to my hotel -- though NY
skyscrapers bugger the signal there :~( -- etc. One time it would have
been useful but I didn't have it was to relocate my car in the car park of
the Mall of America (claimed to be the biggest shopping Mall in the world --
definitely the Work of Stan) in Minneapolis. An out by one error on the
exit doors there lost me over an hour and nearly cost me my flight back to
Blighty -- panic? Me, Yes!!

SWMBO will be delighted -- the savings will buy a nice ***** (fill in gaps
to suit your SWMBO)

T

T

"Tony W" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tumbleweed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thanks, no i understand that, I was really asking (obviously not very

well

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

:-) if there are downloadable maps for mapping capable GPS units that
contain *all* the UK roads, not just the majors. But it sounds like I

might

Quoted message said:

as well go for a cheaper unit, scan in my own maps (and set the

coordinates

Quoted message said:

appropriately I presume), and then set the way points myself. 'thinking
aloud' that would also let me define my exact route rather than fight

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

whatever algorithm is used to determine a route in the device.

So as you suggest later (snipped) I could scan maps in, (or go for a
purchased map system), and then plot my own routes and then upload.

Sounds

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

like the way to go.

SWMBO will also be pleased, as that will be cheaper , £150 or less for

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

unit, rather than £250+ :-)

To some extent it depends what you are looking for from your GPS. I have
used mine principally for route finding in places I don't know or

targeting

Quoted message said:

specific places (e.g. if I am driving to see a client).

For the former I use Trackmaker -- though there are better systems with
proper software maps available that will generate tracks (Memory map for
one). I don't know if 'route finding' software can also produce GPS
tracks -- my guess would be that it can but this is less interesting for

me

Quoted message said:

when cycling ('cos I don't want to use the M25!!)

For the latter I tend to use www.streetmap.co.uk, feed in a postcode, read
off and manually enter the location coordinates. This is great because I
just turn the GPS on once I'm within, say, 5 miles and follow my nose to

the

Quoted message said:

door.

I've found the basic e-trex perfect for just about everything I've wanted

to

Quoted message said:

do with it (including downloading some white knuckle MTB routes in Spain;
finding WTF I am when lost in deepest Hertfordshire; planning and

following

Quoted message said:

a route for six weeks in India and planning and leading a CTC ride;

carrying

Quoted message said:

in the car to find clients, friends and others; carrying in strange places
(e.g. Tokyo and Delhi) so I could find my way back to my hotel -- though

NY

Quoted message said:

skyscrapers bugger the signal there :~( -- etc. One time it would have
been useful but I didn't have it was to relocate my car in the car park of
the Mall of America (claimed to be the biggest shopping Mall in the

world --

Quoted message said:

definitely the Work of Stan) in Minneapolis. An out by one error on the
exit doors there lost me over an hour and nearly cost me my flight back to
Blighty -- panic? Me, Yes!!

SWMBO will be delighted -- the savings will buy a nice ***** (fill in gaps
to suit your SWMBO)

T

T

Is that you Joe ? From the name and message content it sounds like it!

FYI - I have just bought the Memory Map OS CDs for the South half of the
UK - partly for "the trip" (assuming I'm talking to Joe! - I've e-mailed
direct anyway)

Rob

Quoted message said:

"RG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is that you Joe ?

No

"Tony W" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"RG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is that you Joe ?

No

I didn't mean you ! - I meant was Tumbleweed called Joe ?

RG

Tumbleweed said:

Looking at getting a GPS. I can either go for a basic model (which
will let me work out where on a map I am if I get lost), or one where
you can actually store routes and see which way to turn at each
junction (I'll be on road, not off).
However, from what I can see most of the mapping units only contain
major roads, rather than all the little country lanes etc I'll be
trying to use. Is this correct, so that I should only be looking at a
basic unit, or are there downloadable maps that contain all the
little lanes and bridlepaths, etc?

Also, any other considerations for a GPS on a bike?

Have you considered a PocketPC/GPS? Running software such as Memory-Map
(www.memory-map.co.uk) 1:25000 or 1:50000 OS maps.

--
Darren Griffin
PocketGPSWorld - www.pocketgpsworld.com
The Premier GPS Resource for News, Reviews and Forums

I have a Garmin 12 and a Garmin emap; the 12 only shows you a position reference, whilst the emap has a built in map that can be augmented with downloadable maps that are contained on a CD. However, you are right in thinking that the downloadable maps aren't always very detailed - in some of the more remote parts of Britain (such as areas of Shropshire) the downloaded maps aren't very good, often missing smaller roads, and sometimes being less detailed than the maps already built into the unit. The Garmin 12 does seem to react to movement more accurately than the emap, but I do like the moving map facility - even if the unit doesn't show your actual road you can still get a good idea of where you actually are, and this can be checked against a map. The 12 does of course allow you to enter waypoints before a trip, and I used to use a piece of free software (sorry, can't remember the name), that allowed you to scan a map into your computer, plot a route, and upload the route to your GPS. This is a hell of a nuisance though and I would certainly go for a built in map; I once input an airfield that I wanted to fly to and got the coordinates wrong - fortunately I noticed before flying but it could have been a problem. Incidentally the Garmin emap has an adaptor that will clip it onto handlebars, and I have found this to be perfectly safe.
You can also use the emap in the car if you want, and this is really quite useful for longer distance navigation.

Tumbleweed said:

Looking at getting a GPS. I can either go for a basic model (which will let
me work out where on a map I am if I get lost), or one where you can
actually store routes and see which way to turn at each junction (I'll be on
road, not off).
However, from what I can see most of the mapping units only contain major
roads, rather than all the little country lanes etc I'll be trying to use.
Is this correct, so that I should only be looking at a basic unit, or are
there downloadable maps that contain all the little lanes and bridlepaths,
etc?

Also, any other considerations for a GPS on a bike?

Garmin's MapSource software seems to contain most UK roads. It also
appears to contain NCN routes, and it even had a muddy track across
a field that I had in one of my routes! Most minor roads are there.

I use MapSource for having maps on the GPS unit, but I plan the
routes using TrackLogs (OS maps on the PC). There are other suppliers
of similar sw, such as Anquet. The OS maps obviously do contain every
road in the country, and also have the NCN routes (though they're not
all 100% accurate as often the route hasn't been finalised when the
maps are done).

I find that having the map on the unit is useful because it adds context
you don't get from the track alone.

Simon

Quoted message said:

Looking at getting a GPS. I can either go for a basic model (which will let
me work out where on a map I am if I get lost), or one where you can
actually store routes and see which way to turn at each junction (I'll be on
road, not off).
However, from what I can see most of the mapping units only contain major
roads, rather than all the little country lanes etc I'll be trying to use.
Is this correct, so that I should only be looking at a basic unit, or are
there downloadable maps that contain all the little lanes and bridlepaths,
etc?

Some of the latest GPS's have downloadable maps that are very detailed
(though not always 100% accurate). These units can do full navigation
(they automatically calculate a route along roads between two points
and give turn-by-turn directions with automatic recalculation if you
miss a turn).

The downloadable US street map I have (I live in California) includes
a database of shops, restaurants, filling stations, etc. I don't know
if the same is true of the equivalent European maps.

I have a Garmin GPSMAP 60CS with all of the above features. ISTR that
Garmin just brought out a cheaper model (less memory, probably a
smaller display) that does the same. The bad news is that the
downloadable maps are quite pricey.

The GPSMAP 60CS also includes a compass and barometric (i.e. accurate)
altimeter.

Take a look at these links:

http://www.garmin.com/products/gpsmap60cs/
http://www.garmin.com/cartography/mapSource/cityselectEuro.jsp

There is a live demo on the 2nd link - you can see exactly what the
coverage is like where you live.

--
Peter Headland

Tumbleweed said:

Looking at getting a GPS. I can either go for a basic model (which will let
me work out where on a map I am if I get lost), or one where you can
actually store routes and see which way to turn at each junction (I'll be on
road, not off).
However, from what I can see most of the mapping units only contain major
roads, rather than all the little country lanes etc I'll be trying to use.
Is this correct, so that I should only be looking at a basic unit, or are
there downloadable maps that contain all the little lanes and bridlepaths,
etc?

Also, any other considerations for a GPS on a bike?

I can comment on the Garmin 60C which I use for cycle touring in the UK and
France. It can display maps and does auto-routing (which can tell you when
to turn, etc...)
I find it great for touring, but you have to buy the European map (City
Select Europe) if you want to see anything else than the major motorways
(the garmin basemap). Unfortunately this costs almost 200 quid and it is the
only UK product that allows auto-routing on the 60C.

So the 60C+maps will cost you about £550 (expensive I know!). If you go for
a simple non-mapping product, prices start at £100.

A PDA+GPS would be cheaper that 550 quid but they are not waterproof and
battery life isn't as good (I get about 20h).

As for the UK maps in City Select, all the roads are shown even the minor
ones. Only footpaths and small unpaved roads are not shown. The maps are
therefore not very useful if you do a lot of mountain biking, but on the
road this is perfect. It also allows you to cycle through unfamiliar cities
without being lost at every crossroads...

Hope this helps,
Arnaud.