GPS for mountain walking

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from
the wonderful person Dundonald <[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

I've recently aquired a taste for walking mountains after completing
the 3 peaks and welsh 3000's as charity events organised by my
employers. I'm aware that there's no substitute for a good OS map and
compass but I'm looking for a GPS unit that I can have fun with but
also that can help me get more out of my walking. I've done a bit of
research by visiting shops, all of which only stock a brand called
Garmin. I've googled this group for ideas on best GPS but most of the
recent questions / threads seem to be for mountain biking so are not
particularly relevant for me.

I am very new to GPS but hopefully I could may be receive some guidance
from you chaps/ladies as to what units might best suit my needs.
Budget is up to £250 ish at a push £300 tops but the cheaper the deal
with most value for money the better! At the end of the day I want a
good quality sold reliable unit that I can use for a long time.

I'm not sure if these are possible / out there but I figured I'd give
it a go at least anyway.

- large internal memory and / or accept a memory card such as SD
- I'd like to if possible see an OS map on screen pin pointing my
position?
- trace and record a route that I might walk (would have loved to have
done this when I did welsh 3k's) and if possible download and plot that
route against a map that I can see on PC?
- all the usual basic stuff like current altitude, height gain, walking
distance, avg speed bla bla bla
- good battery life
- i'd like to be able to download routes from the internet (walking
sites, news groups etc) if possible that I can key in to the GPS and
guide me on a walk. For example, I'm yet to complete the snowdon horse
shoe in one shot, if I could download a route such as that and follow
the GPS promptings to take me on it that would be great!
- record a route and retrace steps backward?
- is there a device that I can use on mountain walking as per above but
one that I can have a little fun with in every day life such as
downloading maps to the device for normal streets / roads etc?

I have a ton of other stuff I'd like but like I say I'm new to this
game both walking and GPS so I'm not sure what can and / or can't be
done.

Any help appreciated.

Start by reading http://www.gpsinformation.net/

Basically most GPSs will do most of what you want, but you can't have an
OS map on the screen unless you got with a PDA type, which are
relatively fragile with lousy battery life.

You might be able to pick up a cheap Garmin 60c, since they just
announced the 60Cx, with removable memory cards (the 60C has 56MB built
in .. runs for 20-30 hours on 2 AA cells, is colour, and does most of
what you want). Else a n Extrex C (colour). I'd recommend colour .. it's
tres useful, and well within your budget.

Yes, you can also use it in you car, but if you want good UK Streetmap
data to load that'll cost you a significant amount of the cost of the
GPS unit (on top). You can only buy the whole of Europe these days.

Garmin are probably the market leader, Magellan second, everyone else
way third. Developing your own maps for loading onto a Garmin is not
hard, but it is a lot of work. You can have UK contour maps for free
(just contours, summits, coastline, and trig pillars) coz some idiot
already did them.

You =will= need =some= PC software to go with it .. there are freebies,
and there are the ones which come with raster OS maps (which cost
money). The latter at least allows you to plan a route, upload the plan
to the GPS, and later on download where you really went, display on the
map, fly through in 3D or whatever. Again, budget some money (but not
outrageous if you only need digital OS maps for a small part of the
country .. want the lot at 1:25k?, get a mortgage).

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.

"Dundonald" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Any help appreciated.

Make sure that the batteries have sufficient capacity for your planned
outings and emergencies, even when they're cold. Be sceptical of printed
claims. I use a Garmin GPS12, and certainly wouldn't trust my life to it.
It's fine in the car, driven off the car's electrics.

--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm

On 11 Jan 2006 15:21:21 -0800, "Dundonald" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I'm aware that there's no substitute for a good OS map and
compass

Harvey?
--

Paul Rooney

Dundonald said:

- trace and record a route that I might walk (would have loved to have
done this when I did welsh 3k's) and if possible download and plot that
route against a map that I can see on PC?

Not too up on what the very latest GPS's will do, so I'll leave that to
others.
What I have found is a completely *FREE* way of plotting your GPS tracks
onto Google Earth which you may find interesting.

Download a piece of software called GpsDump from
http://www.multinett.no/~stein.sorensen/body_gpsdump.htm

It will extract all track points from your GPS (Garmin & Magellan
supported), and convert them into a .KML file. Open the file in Google
Earth & hey presto! you can see where you've been :-)

GpsDump is designed for the free flight community (hang-gliders,
paragliders etc) and is biased towards that use, but it works equally
well for walking as well. Can also be used to upload waypoints, but
this is slightly clunky, and probably best left to the likes of
MemoryMap, Anquet etc.

--
Dave McLaughlin

[censored] Sapiens Non Urinat In Ventum

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 00:05:40 -0000, "Malcolm Stewart"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| "Dundonald" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
| news:[email hidden]...
| > Any help appreciated.
|
| Make sure that the batteries have sufficient capacity for your planned
| outings and emergencies, even when they're cold. Be sceptical of printed
| claims. I use a Garmin GPS12, and certainly wouldn't trust my life to it.
| It's fine in the car, driven off the car's electrics.

I would *never* trust my life to a GPS, not only because the present system
is run by the US DoD. OS Explorer maps and a compass are a different
matter.

I use NiMh rechargable, recharged before each trip, and carry a pocketfull
of spares. The dead ones are recharged as soon as I get back to the car.
--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
17,000 free e-books at Project Gutenberg! http://www.gutenberg.net
For Yorkshire Dialect go to www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/

Dave McLaughlin said:

Dundonald said:

- trace and record a route that I might walk (would have loved to have
done this when I did welsh 3k's) and if possible download and plot that
route against a map that I can see on PC?

Not too up on what the very latest GPS's will do, so I'll leave that to
others.
What I have found is a completely *FREE* way of plotting your GPS tracks
onto Google Earth which you may find interesting.

Download a piece of software called GpsDump from
http://www.multinett.no/~stein.sorensen/body_gpsdump.htm

It will extract all track points from your GPS (Garmin & Magellan
supported), and convert them into a .KML file. Open the file in Google
Earth & hey presto! you can see where you've been :-)

GpsDump is designed for the free flight community (hang-gliders,
paragliders etc) and is biased towards that use, but it works equally
well for walking as well. Can also be used to upload waypoints, but
this is slightly clunky, and probably best left to the likes of
MemoryMap, Anquet etc.

--
Dave McLaughlin

[censored] Sapiens Non Urinat In Ventum

GPSU (www.gpsu.co.uk) will also do the .KML file thing, plus it is
great at data conversion. I use it a supplement to Anquet. The free
version handles a limited number of waypoints, but it's so good that
you'll want to pay the small sum to upgrade.

druidh

PS - I have nothing to do with GPSU other than as a happy user.

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the
wonderful person Dave Fawthrop <[email hidden]>
said
<snip>

Quoted message said:

|. I use a Garmin GPS12, and certainly wouldn't trust my life to it.
| It's fine in the car, driven off the car's electrics.

I would *never* trust my life to a GPS, not only because the present system
is run by the US DoD. OS Explorer maps and a compass are a different
matter.

I wouldn't trust my life to an OS explorer map either - plenty of places
that'll send you over a cliff if you don't have you eyes and
intelligence switched on.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.

Dundonald said:

I've recently aquired a taste for walking mountains after completing
the 3 peaks and welsh 3000's as charity events organised by my
employers.

Oh Oh! That's how all mad baggers start. Just one and then another and
before you know where you are you are ticking lists and looking for
new ones to tick.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Why do people want GPS ? for hundreds of years humans have walked up hills
without. You can't beat a good compass and a map. Also up here in the Lakes
the paths are so worn that its difficult to get lost on the popular routes,
you don't even need a map! I've never seen a sheep farmer in the back of
the Shap fells miles from the nearest road with GPS, only a good sense of
direction.
"Dundonald" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
I've recently aquired a taste for walking mountains after completing
the 3 peaks and welsh 3000's as charity events organised by my
employers. I'm aware that there's no substitute for a good OS map and
compass but I'm looking for a GPS unit that I can have fun with but
also that can help me get more out of my walking. I've done a bit of
research by visiting shops, all of which only stock a brand called
Garmin. I've googled this group for ideas on best GPS but most of the
recent questions / threads seem to be for mountain biking so are not
particularly relevant for me.

I am very new to GPS but hopefully I could may be receive some guidance
from you chaps/ladies as to what units might best suit my needs.
Budget is up to £250 ish at a push £300 tops but the cheaper the deal
with most value for money the better! At the end of the day I want a
good quality sold reliable unit that I can use for a long time.

I'm not sure if these are possible / out there but I figured I'd give
it a go at least anyway.

- large internal memory and / or accept a memory card such as SD
- I'd like to if possible see an OS map on screen pin pointing my
position?
- trace and record a route that I might walk (would have loved to have
done this when I did welsh 3k's) and if possible download and plot that
route against a map that I can see on PC?
- all the usual basic stuff like current altitude, height gain, walking
distance, avg speed bla bla bla
- good battery life
- i'd like to be able to download routes from the internet (walking
sites, news groups etc) if possible that I can key in to the GPS and
guide me on a walk. For example, I'm yet to complete the snowdon horse
shoe in one shot, if I could download a route such as that and follow
the GPS promptings to take me on it that would be great!
- record a route and retrace steps backward?
- is there a device that I can use on mountain walking as per above but
one that I can have a little fun with in every day life such as
downloading maps to the device for normal streets / roads etc?

I have a ton of other stuff I'd like but like I say I'm new to this
game both walking and GPS so I'm not sure what can and / or can't be
done.

Any help appreciated.

In article <[email hidden]>,
Dundonald <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I'm aware that there's no substitute for a good OS map and
compass but I'm looking for a GPS unit that I can have fun with

Guaranteed not to upset the Luddites :-)

Where's West ?............>

--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Dave McLaughlin
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

It will extract all track points from your GPS (Garmin & Magellan
supported), and convert them into a .KML file. Open the file in Google
Earth & hey presto! you can see where you've been :-)

Sounds good - sort of ...retro-navigation. :-)
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Jack Livesey
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Why do people want GPS ? for hundreds of years humans have walked up hills
without. You can't beat a good compass and a map.

For goodness sake go away !

For hundreds of years people walked and didn't need cards ......!

People cooked food without food-processors, electric ovens, gas ovens,
microwave ovens ,,etc. etc.....

Bye for now - and don't come back until you come up with something
original.

--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

The message <[email hidden]>
from Phil Cook <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've recently aquired a taste for walking mountains after completing
the 3 peaks and welsh 3000's as charity events organised by my
employers.

Quoted message said:

Oh Oh! That's how all mad baggers start. Just one and then another and
before you know where you are you are ticking lists and looking for
new ones to tick.

But this one seems a bit exceptional. The 3 Peaks is the sort of walk
most can do with a little application but the Welsh 3000s is a different
ball game. Even experienced and fit walkers often fail on the Welsh
3000s.

--
Roger Chapman so far this year nothing

Roger said:

The message <[email hidden]>
from Phil Cook <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've recently aquired a taste for walking mountains after completing
the 3 peaks and welsh 3000's as charity events organised by my
employers.

Quoted message said:

Oh Oh! That's how all mad baggers start. Just one and then another and
before you know where you are you are ticking lists and looking for
new ones to tick.

But this one seems a bit exceptional. The 3 Peaks is the sort of walk
most can do with a little application but the Welsh 3000s is a different
ball game. Even experienced and fit walkers often fail on the Welsh
3000s.

Really? I ask in a polite and surprised way. As I say I'm relatively
new to mountain walking (I did 3 peaks 2004 and welsh 3000's 2005) but
my general level of fitness really helped (gym 4x per week in last 5
years). The welsh 3000's was hard but I just guessed that most that
attack it are aware of the challenge and complete it ok.

Jack Livesey said:

Why do people want GPS ?

LIke I say, I want one for a bit of fun but also one so that I can use
as a tool to help me explore different routes, not necessarily the well
trodden ones.

Quoted message said:

for hundreds of years humans have walked up hills
without. You can't beat a good compass and a map.

Totally agree, GPS should be used as an additional tool that can help
navigation. BUT, it's fun to use it and then take the data back to the
PC afterward.

Quoted message said:

Also up here in the Lakes
the paths are so worn that its difficult to get lost on the popular routes,
you don't even need a map! I've never seen a sheep farmer in the back of
the Shap fells miles from the nearest road with GPS, only a good sense of
direction.

Paul Rooney <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Harvey?

You still walking with that big rabbit?
--
Gordon Harris

Jack Livesey <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Why do people want GPS ? for hundreds of years humans have walked up hills
without. You can't beat a good compass and a map.

Oh yes you can!

Watch out - there's a GPS behind you....
--
Gordon Harris

GSV Three Minds in a Can said:

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from
the wonderful person Dundonald <[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

I've recently aquired a taste for walking mountains after completing
the 3 peaks and welsh 3000's as charity events organised by my
employers. I'm aware that there's no substitute for a good OS map and
compass but I'm looking for a GPS unit that I can have fun with but
also that can help me get more out of my walking. I've done a bit of
research by visiting shops, all of which only stock a brand called
Garmin. I've googled this group for ideas on best GPS but most of the
recent questions / threads seem to be for mountain biking so are not
particularly relevant for me.

I am very new to GPS but hopefully I could may be receive some guidance
from you chaps/ladies as to what units might best suit my needs.
Budget is up to £250 ish at a push £300 tops but the cheaper the deal
with most value for money the better! At the end of the day I want a
good quality sold reliable unit that I can use for a long time.

I'm not sure if these are possible / out there but I figured I'd give
it a go at least anyway.

- large internal memory and / or accept a memory card such as SD
- I'd like to if possible see an OS map on screen pin pointing my
position?
- trace and record a route that I might walk (would have loved to have
done this when I did welsh 3k's) and if possible download and plot that
route against a map that I can see on PC?
- all the usual basic stuff like current altitude, height gain, walking
distance, avg speed bla bla bla
- good battery life
- i'd like to be able to download routes from the internet (walking
sites, news groups etc) if possible that I can key in to the GPS and
guide me on a walk. For example, I'm yet to complete the snowdon horse
shoe in one shot, if I could download a route such as that and follow
the GPS promptings to take me on it that would be great!
- record a route and retrace steps backward?
- is there a device that I can use on mountain walking as per above but
one that I can have a little fun with in every day life such as
downloading maps to the device for normal streets / roads etc?

I have a ton of other stuff I'd like but like I say I'm new to this
game both walking and GPS so I'm not sure what can and / or can't be
done.

Any help appreciated.

Start by reading http://www.gpsinformation.net/

Basically most GPSs will do most of what you want, but you can't have an
OS map on the screen unless you got with a PDA type, which are
relatively fragile with lousy battery life.

Thanks mate I'll take a look at the site you suggested. I don't want a
PDA type. The blacks store I went in to talked of a garmin etrex vista,
it supposedly being the top model. When I went in to the store I knew
nothing of GPS, so I came home and looked up on the internet. I
couldn't find any information on this model from either garmin.com or
garmin.co.uk under their product lists. The blacks.co.uk site doesn't
give a lot of detail on it either.

Quoted message said:

You might be able to pick up a cheap Garmin 60c, since they just
announced the 60Cx, with removable memory cards (the 60C has 56MB built
in .. runs for 20-30 hours on 2 AA cells, is colour, and does most of
what you want). Else a n Extrex C (colour). I'd recommend colour .. it's
tres useful, and well within your budget.

How does the 60c and 60Cx compare with the etrex vista that blacks are
trying to flog me? I did see these models on the garmin websites so
I'll take a look at what they do. But it would be interesting for me
to see how they compare to the etrex range that blacks flog.

Quoted message said:

Yes, you can also use it in you car, but if you want good UK Streetmap
data to load that'll cost you a significant amount of the cost of the
GPS unit (on top). You can only buy the whole of Europe these days.

Garmin are probably the market leader, Magellan second, everyone else
way third. Developing your own maps for loading onto a Garmin is not
hard, but it is a lot of work. You can have UK contour maps for free
(just contours, summits, coastline, and trig pillars) coz some idiot
already did them.

You =will= need =some= PC software to go with it .. there are freebies,
and there are the ones which come with raster OS maps (which cost
money). The latter at least allows you to plan a route, upload the plan
to the GPS, and later on download where you really went, display on the
map, fly through in 3D or whatever. Again, budget some money (but not
outrageous if you only need digital OS maps for a small part of the
country .. want the lot at 1:25k?, get a mortgage).

I know, crazy. I can't remember where I saw it, I think again it might
have been blacks but I'm sure I remember seeing UK maps for sale at
over £200. Crazy.

Quoted message said:

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.

In article <[email hidden]>,
Dundonald <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Thanks mate I'll take a look at the site you suggested. I don't want a
PDA type. The blacks store I went in to talked of a garmin etrex vista,
it supposedly being the top model. When I went in to the store I knew
nothing of GPS, so I came home and looked up on the internet. I
couldn't find any information on this model from either garmin.com

http://www.garmin.com/products/etrexVista/index.jsp

Personally I don't rate mapping GPS receivers off road (mainly due to
the small screens meaning either a small area on display or zoomed out
to a larger area with a lack of detail) so use a Garmin Geko 201 most of
the time. No maps but v small and light.

Magellan have an OS mapping product for loading into some of their GPS
receivers:

http://www.magellangps.com/en/products/product.asp?PRODID=1026

There is a preview maps link from that page and you can zoom in and have
a look round the maps. They are not as good as a real OS map but they
are not too bad.

Garmin have supposedly been negotiating with the OS for well over a year
but have yet to launch a product.

--

Dominic Sexton