GPS equipment for trails.

Caher said:

Hi all,
My imagination has been caught by a trail I saw in a magazine during
the week and I was wondering the advantage of having GPS equipment to help
navigate around.
Does anyone use one? Are they programmable? Or do they deflect
concentration from the trail?
Regards

Yep use one all the time when I'm going cross country. I have an ancient
Garmin GPS 12 with handlebar mount (essential add on in my opinion) and
find it very useful indeed. Combined with decent mapping software it
makes life on obscure trails through unknown areas much easier.

--
Regards

Tony Hogarty
(Take out the garbage to reply)

Caher said:

Does anyone use one?

Occasionally.

Quoted message said:

Are they programmable?

Yes, if you have suitable software and a data link cable it's easy, if
you do it by hand it's a PITA. However, you don't need to program them
to tell you where you are, only if you want to put in a set of waypoints
to guide you along a preset route. In practice you only need to know
which strategic junction you might be at and a map to work out where
next, and you want the map along anyway as there's far more information
on it and it enables contingency planning on the fly.

Quoted message said:

Or do they deflect concentration from the trail?

That would be up to you!
The main advantage of a GPS is you don't have to keep looking at it for
it to know where you are, while traditional fine navigation does require
keeping in touch with the map quite a bit. Losing this requirement
means you /can/ concentrate on the immediate trail more than the
strategic navigation, though some people seem to be transfixed by the
"GOTO" arrow to a next waypoint...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

I've heard that the batteries also have a very short life - can this be resolved?

"Caher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

I've heard that the batteries also have a very short life - can this be
resolved?

--
Caher

The latest models, such as the Garmin 60C and 76C get 30 - 40 hr from a pair
of alkaline AA batteries, even longer with lithium batteries. That's plenty
long enough.

"Caher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've heard that the batteries also have a very short life - can this be
resolved?

I too have a Garmin GPS12 and a set of rechargeable batteries lasts all
day...easily. I haven't got round to inputting routes to follow but just
take it along to record my route, then upload it to the pc on my return (to
see where I went astray!). I also use it to confirm exactly where I am by
reading the grid ref., then transferring this to my map. Its comforting to
see it confirm (or not!) where I think I am! I would like to use it more and
possibly mount it on the bars etc. I might get round to it eventually!

Regards, Paul (R)
My Lake District walking site:
www.lakelandwalker.co.uk

Caher said:

Hi all,
My imagination has been caught by a trail I saw in a magazine during
the week and I was wondering the advantage of having GPS equipment to
help navigate around.
Does anyone use one? Are they programmable? Or do they deflect
concentration from the trail?
Regards

Hi

I use a Garmin Geko 301 and the Anquet route planning software. The Geko
range is about as small and light as you get (although Garmin do a
Foretex range too). A good set of AAA rechargeables will easily see you
through the day. Handlebar mount is very useful and as you only really
need to refer to the GPS when approachiung junctions, route changes,
it's not too much of a distraction.

It also makes for a very useful speedo and can calculate ETA, distance
travveled, distance left etc which can be very useful, especially if
some way from civilization.

Only problem I've experienced was sudden complete power loss on
occasion. This was solved by fitting a thin piece of foam into the
battery compartment to take up any slack thereabouts.

You'll get a good deal from www.globalpositioningsystems.co.uk, where
you'll also find a handy forum for the multiple questions you're bound
to have.

One word of advice - don't expect it to replace a map and compass if
you're heading off on longer trails. If you can't already, learn how to
use these first and use the GPS as a luxury item!

druidh

"druidh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Caher said:

Hi all,
My imagination has been caught by a trail I saw in a magazine during
the week and I was wondering the advantage of having GPS equipment to
help navigate around. Does anyone use one? Are they programmable? Or do
they deflect
concentration from the trail?
Regards

Hi

I use a Garmin Geko 301 and the Anquet route planning software. The Geko
range is about as small and light as you get (although Garmin do a Foretex
range too). A good set of AAA rechargeables will easily see you through
the day. Handlebar mount is very useful and as you only really need to
refer to the GPS when approachiung junctions, route changes, it's not too
much of a distraction.

It also makes for a very useful speedo and can calculate ETA, distance
travveled, distance left etc which can be very useful, especially if some
way from civilization.

Only problem I've experienced was sudden complete power loss on occasion.
This was solved by fitting a thin piece of foam into the battery
compartment to take up any slack thereabouts.

You'll get a good deal from www.globalpositioningsystems.co.uk, where
you'll also find a handy forum for the multiple questions you're bound to
have.

One word of advice - don't expect it to replace a map and compass if
you're heading off on longer trails. If you can't already, learn how to
use these first and use the GPS as a luxury item!

druidh

I've used a Compaq Ipaq 3850 on a handle bar mount to get across Holland
with TomTom voice navigation software. Did a good job but battery life meant
switching on at points where necessary. I would think same kit with OS
mapping software eg Fugawi instead of Tomtom would be ideal for you on short
duration trips. You can get external battery packs to extend ontime.
Chris

Caher said:

I've heard that the batteries also have a very short life - can this be
resolved?

I can't think of a model where a set of rechargeables won't last you
all day. It's unlikely to get much better, because to start with they
need a lot of computational power to do the basic job, and consumers
being what they are, they want as many extra bells and whistles as can
be squeezed out of the package and the batteries.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Yes with an iSun solar charger.

--
Regards, Kenneth.
www.kmiles.co.uk
"Caher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

I've heard that the batteries also have a very short life - can this be
resolved?

--
Caher

I use a Garmin etrex with routes loaded from Memory map 2004.
However, a few instances of batteries coming loose (mostly avoided by
a piece of card wedged in the battery compartment) have demonstrated
the sense in making sure you take a map with you too.

I also tend to find that it does not work well in forests as it tends
to lose contact with the satellites and so will not tell you where you
are (does anyone have a solution this?). However, in the open it is
excellent. Its best use is to actually find where you are on a map as
it also give grid references. Calculating your max speed, so you can
show off in the pub afterwards, is also well worth the purchase price
(even better when skiing).

Beware when using it for night rides. It is only as accurate as your
mouse pointer on the pc! Blindly following the left and right
direction from the device can put you off cliffs, or worse still, you
could miss the pub altogether.

Rammie said:

I also tend to find that it does not work well in forests as it tends
to lose contact with the satellites and so will not tell you where you
are (does anyone have a solution this?).

The standard problem with the small GPS units. You makes your choice -
bigger unit, bigger antenna, better sensitivity or small unit, small
antenna, poorer sensitivity. You could always add an external antenna
to get a better signal but that defeats the object of having a compact
unit in the first place.

Just waiting for Rt66 Symbian UIQ version to come out and then I'll run
a bluetooth GPS in the backpack and map it on the mobile.

Tony

Hi again,
Well I think my true use for them was is evidence on Saturday when I attempted a trail I read in one of the bike magazines. I did bring a map and compass and do have a vague knowledge of how to use them (a degree in geography helped!). But I found that I needed to keep referencing when I was presented with multiple choices of singletracks. Constantly getting the map out on such a cold day was also a real pain.
I just think that something that helped guide me around interactively would have been a real bonus.
I’m going to look into getting one.
Thanks for your suggestions.

(Rammie) said:

I use a Garmin etrex with routes loaded from Memory map 2004.
However, a few instances of batteries coming loose (mostly avoided by
a piece of card wedged in the battery compartment) have demonstrated
the sense in making sure you take a map with you too.

Quoted message said:

I also tend to find that it does not work well in forests as it tends
to lose contact with the satellites and so will not tell you where you
are (does anyone have a solution this?).

First, make sure it's not in battery save mode, which hardly affects
wide open tracking, but kills tracking under trees.

Next, note that the problem is that it takes a much longer time of
uninterrupted signal to acquire a new satellite than to keep track of
one that's already been locked. So under trees the GPS can keep track
of the satellites it already has, as they flit behind passing boughs,
but can't see a new one for long enough to lock it. So gradually those
it has set below the horizon, and it never picks up any new ones.

The solution is easy. You simply have either to stop every so often
and let the unit acquire some new sats, choosing a spot with the
widest sky view. How often is "every so often"? Depends on how many
sats you amange to get in the clear spots. You can find out by
experiment or keeping an eye on the sat view page in your typical
woods.

Even in a very narrow steep sided and heavily wooded glen, about as
bad as you can get, I managed to get an almost perfect track on my
eTrex Summit simply by stopping as needed to let it keep up.

When trying to get a position lock in a very bad place, you can help
it a lot by watching the sat view page carefully and positioning it
just right so that you get most satellites. When boughs obscure the
sky moving a foot can make all the diffeence. And don't forget not to
obscure any with your head and body!

Note too that eTrexes have a 30 second period of grace in which they
allow position lock to be lost, then assuming you're moving in the
last direction and speed, and finally joining up the track if position
lock comes back within the 30 seconds. You can exploit this to mark a
waypoint in a place where you can't get position lock, by moving to it
at a constant velocity from somewhere within 30 seconds with position
lock. That way you can, for example, mark a bend or junction in a
track where you can't get lock and the tracklog will eaither be broken
or cut off the corner.

There are very few places where intelligent use of a GPS -- any GPS --
can't find out where you are. There are plenty of places where they
can't track you, but unless you're nailed to the spot they can still
be used to locate you, given a few to several minutes exploration
time.
--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Caher said:

Well I think my true use for them was is evidence on Saturday when I
attempted a trail I read in one of the bike magazines. I did bring a
map and compass and do have a vague knowledge of how to use them (a
degree in geography helped!). But I found that I needed to keep
referencing when I was presented with multiple choices of singletracks.
Constantly getting the map out on such a cold day was also a real pain.

This can still be a problem with a GPSR. I recently got lost in a
housing estate while following a carefully planned route. It was one
of those estates which have been carefully planned to discourage
through traffic by making it a twisty little maze with few entrances,
in this case only two. But I didn't plan every twist and turn in the
estate, and as it turned out I couldn't have, because how to get into
the exit I needed didn't exist in detailed enough form even on my
quite detailed paper map because exaggerating the width of the roads
on the map (as they do) obscured the necessary detail.

In the end I backtracked out of the estate and went round it, which
caused a lot of hilarity. "He was late because he tried to get here
using a GPS!"

Later leisurely examination of the map by a fire made it clear that it
would have been impossible to plan enough detail in advance, it was
one of those cases where you need to look at the map while standing on
the spot.

I'm just pointing out that you still need now and then to get the map
out and scratch your head; the GPSR can greatly reduce the need for
it, but not eliminate it. It's an extremely good map accessory, not a
map replacement, and given the map detail that pedestrians and
cyclists (as opposed to car drivers) need, it'll be a long time before
even the largest and most expensive mapping GPSRs can replace the
paper map.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

"Tony Hogarty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 23:46:32 +1100, Caher wrote:
snip <
Yep use one all the time when I'm going cross country. I have an ancient
Garmin GPS 12 with handlebar mount (essential add on in my opinion) and
find it very useful indeed. Combined with decent mapping software it
makes life on obscure trails through unknown areas much easier.

Tony, where did you get the handlebar mount for your GPS 12 (any url link?)
and how much was it, if you don't mind me asking? I have the same model and
would like to make more use of it on the bike. Also, doesn't it get a real
battering when mounted on the bars, especially on a long, bumpy downhill?

--
Regards, Paul (R)
My Lake District walking site:
www.lakelandwalker.co.uk

Paul Rose said:

"Tony Hogarty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 23:46:32 +1100, Caher wrote: snip <
Yep use one all the time when I'm going cross country. I have an
ancient Garmin GPS 12 with handlebar mount (essential add on in my
opinion) and find it very useful indeed. Combined with decent mapping
software it makes life on obscure trails through unknown areas much
easier.

Tony, where did you get the handlebar mount for your GPS 12 (any url
link?) and how much was it, if you don't mind me asking? I have the same
model and would like to make more use of it on the bike. Also, doesn't it
get a real battering when mounted on the bars, especially on a long, bumpy
downhill?

http://www.outdoorgear.co.uk/eshop.asp?wce=58113001&wci=product

It does get a real battering - especially when you hit the tree, but we
won't go there - but it sits on a rubber shock absorber ring so it
survives. I've had no problems so far after approx two years of use.
Costs about £13 from memory and is available at many different places so
it might be worth shopping around.

--
Regards

Tony Hogarty
(Take out the garbage to reply)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Tony, where did you get the handlebar mount for your GPS 12 (any url
link?) and how much was it, if you don't mind me asking? I have the same
model and would like to make more use of it on the bike. Also, doesn't

it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

get a real battering when mounted on the bars, especially on a long,

bumpy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

downhill?

http://www.outdoorgear.co.uk/eshop.asp?wce=58113001&wci=product

It does get a real battering - especially when you hit the tree, but we
won't go there - but it sits on a rubber shock absorber ring so it
survives. I've had no problems so far after approx two years of use.
Costs about £13 from memory and is available at many different places so
it might be worth shopping around.

Hi Tony, Thanks for the link and info. Managed to find it a pound cheaper on
the net ;o) It says it 'snaps' into the holder. Do you stick something to
the back of the GPS?

--
Regards, Paul (R)
My Lake District walking site:
www.lakelandwalker.co.uk

Paul Rose said:

Hi Tony, Thanks for the link and info. Managed to find it a pound cheaper
on the net ;o) It says it 'snaps' into the holder. Do you stick something
to the back of the GPS?

Yep if you look on the back of the unit there is a rubber strip? That
comes out and the clip goes in there.

--
Regards

Tony Hogarty
(Take out the garbage to reply)

"Tony Hogarty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul Rose said:

Hi Tony, Thanks for the link and info. Managed to find it a pound

cheaper

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on the net ;o) It says it 'snaps' into the holder. Do you stick

something

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to the back of the GPS?

Yep if you look on the back of the unit there is a rubber strip? That
comes out and the clip goes in there.

I was looking at that rubber strip thingy! I did have a tug at it but
thought better of it! Having had another look at it, it comes off quite
easily. Great, thanks for the info.

--
Regards, Paul (R)
My Lake District walking site:
www.lakelandwalker.co.uk