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Got to love Zabel

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Road Cycling
Published
19 May 2005
Last activity
21 May 2005
Original author
Bill C
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  1. After Udo Bolts he's got to be my favorite rider. Udo did it all
    without all the wins and glory, but Erik's had to reinvent himself to
    stay at the top, and he just keeps finding ways to be a factor in
    almost every race he's in. I really hope that he can grab a couple of
    stages after the mountains because I think this year is it. I think
    he's smart enough and the team respects him enough to help him geta few
    at the Tour this year too, if not wins then enough results to have hin
    contending for the Green Jersey again.
    he's said he want's to stay in tha gane after he's done riding, and I
    can't think of anyone better to work with racers on how to make the
    most of their career opportunities. I think he's still the most popular
    German cyclist by a lot, and deserves to be.
    Jeff has some good stuff that highlights how hard and smart Zabel
    works.:
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/may05/may19news3

    Zabel edging closer
    After finishing fifth on Stage 9 and fourth yesterday, T-Mobile's Erik
    Zabel is edging ever closer to a stage victory in his first the Giro
    d'Italia. With the real mountains starting today, the 34 year-old is
    one sprinter who is able to get over the climbs and make the time cut a
    little easier than his rivals, so his chances of a win will naturally
    increase as the days tick by.

    He's not racking up the wins the way he used to, but when the going
    gets really tough for the sprinters he's always there and isn't
    stirring up a bunch of [censored] either.
    Bill C

  2. The Tour de France. Telekom is committed to getting the win for Jan.
    If they were smart, they'd leave Zabel at home for the Tour and
    completely concentrate on Jan. That would stink, but that's what they
    should do instead of trying to get stage wins for Zabel. Get another
    mountain support rider in there to help out old Jan in the high
    mountains.

    Tom

  3. Tom said:

    The Tour de France. Telekom is committed to getting the win for Jan.
    If they were smart, they'd leave Zabel at home for the Tour and
    completely concentrate on Jan. That would stink, but that's what


    they

    Quoted message said:

    should do instead of trying to get stage wins for Zabel. Get another
    mountain support rider in there to help out old Jan in the high
    mountains.

    Tom

    I'm not sure that they have enough faith in Jan to put everything into
    his lap. I'm not sure they're willing to go take that risk of Jan
    breaking again. At least with Wesseman and Zabel around they have some
    damage control available if they need it. I agree that he needs more
    help in the mountains but given Jan's climbing style I'm not sure that
    it would really help him. What he has trouble with are the quick
    attacks and changes in pace. I don't think T-Mobil can put together a
    strong enough squad to keep the pace high enough to limit these. Jan's
    just going to have to be able to hurt the others by going longer at his
    pace, if not he's screwed near the tops of the climbs again when
    someone has a little left to go.
    I think that they are really close to the end as a major player unless
    they find a way to retool with good young riders, and I'm not sure how
    their budget is these days. If he's really in shape this should be a
    good year for him, maybe the last good one. Teams and racers have been
    really agressive and I think that could play right into his strength by
    keeping the pace high for long periods.
    Either way we're getting to watch some really great racers wind down
    the ir careers. I'm really enjoying this season.
    Bill C

  4. Tom said:

    The Tour de France. Telekom is committed to getting the win for Jan.
    If they were smart, they'd leave Zabel at home for the Tour and
    completely concentrate on Jan. That would stink, but that's what


    they

    Quoted message said:

    should do instead of trying to get stage wins for Zabel. Get another
    mountain support rider in there to help out old Jan in the high
    mountains.

    Dumbass -

    In past years, 1 extra rider for Jan would have made zero difference.

    In the meantime, in past years, Zabel was the UCI #1 rider.

    thanks,

    K. Gringioni.

  5. Bill C said:
    Tom said:

    The Tour de France. Telekom is committed to getting the win for Jan.
    If they were smart, they'd leave Zabel at home for the Tour and
    completely concentrate on Jan. That would stink, but that's what


    they

    Quoted message said:

    should do instead of trying to get stage wins for Zabel. Get another
    mountain support rider in there to help out old Jan in the high
    mountains.

    Tom

    Quoted message said:

    I'm not sure that they have enough faith in Jan to put everything into
    his lap. I'm not sure they're willing to go take that risk of Jan
    breaking again. At least with Wesseman and Zabel around they have some
    damage control available if they need it.

    Zabel's last stage win was 2002. He isn't a player there or in the
    Points competition. Part of managing your career as you age is
    focusing on the races where you can make a difference. JaJa and
    Museeuw are great examples of this. Ekimov too, with respect to
    the Tour. He has a defined role in the team, and he is fits that
    role for Discovery better than Zabel is likely to fit any role for
    T-Mobile.

    There are great races in the fall. I'd give Zabel July off.

    Bob Schwartz
    [email hidden]

  6. Judging from their performances, Ullrich was there to fall back on in case
    Zabel had an off year 🙂

    "Bill C" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Tom said:

    The Tour de France. Telekom is committed to getting the win for Jan.
    If they were smart, they'd leave Zabel at home for the Tour and
    completely concentrate on Jan. That would stink, but that's what


    they

    Quoted message said:

    should do instead of trying to get stage wins for Zabel. Get another
    mountain support rider in there to help out old Jan in the high
    mountains.

    Tom

    I'm not sure that they have enough faith in Jan to put everything into
    his lap. I'm not sure they're willing to go take that risk of Jan
    breaking again. At least with Wesseman and Zabel around they have some
    damage control available if they need it. I agree that he needs more
    help in the mountains but given Jan's climbing style I'm not sure that
    it would really help him. What he has trouble with are the quick
    attacks and changes in pace. I don't think T-Mobil can put together a
    strong enough squad to keep the pace high enough to limit these. Jan's
    just going to have to be able to hurt the others by going longer at his
    pace, if not he's screwed near the tops of the climbs again when
    someone has a little left to go.
    I think that they are really close to the end as a major player unless
    they find a way to retool with good young riders, and I'm not sure how
    their budget is these days. If he's really in shape this should be a
    good year for him, maybe the last good one. Teams and racers have been
    really agressive and I think that could play right into his strength by
    keeping the pace high for long periods.
    Either way we're getting to watch some really great racers wind down
    the ir careers. I'm really enjoying this season.
    Bill C

  7. Bob Schwartz said:
    Bill C said:
    Tom said:

    The Tour de France. Telekom is committed to getting the win for


    Jan.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    If they were smart, they'd leave Zabel at home for the Tour and
    completely concentrate on Jan. That would stink, but that's what


    they

    Quoted message said:

    should do instead of trying to get stage wins for Zabel. Get


    another

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    mountain support rider in there to help out old Jan in the high
    mountains.

    Tom

    Quoted message said:

    I'm not sure that they have enough faith in Jan to put everything


    into

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    his lap. I'm not sure they're willing to go take that risk of Jan
    breaking again. At least with Wesseman and Zabel around they have


    some

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    damage control available if they need it.

    Zabel's last stage win was 2002. He isn't a player there or in the
    Points competition. Part of managing your career as you age is
    focusing on the races where you can make a difference. JaJa and
    Museeuw are great examples of this. Ekimov too, with respect to
    the Tour. He has a defined role in the team, and he is fits that
    role for Discovery better than Zabel is likely to fit any role for
    T-Mobile.

    There are great races in the fall. I'd give Zabel July off.

    Bob Schwartz
    [email hidden]

    Bob, I think a large part of this is that Zabel is the number one man
    in Germany and he's always competitive. Erik is the "common man"
    working his ass off for results and people relate to that. Jan is the
    pampered former East German prodigy who is a partier, headcase and
    doesn't work hard enough.
    I'm ducking because of the [censored] I've taken for even questioning Jan
    from the Telekom team people. Unfortunately I've lost the connection to
    the team and I don't know what's going on now inside the team, but Erik
    is a popular hero and Jan is the "star".
    I think Erik can win the Green again this year. He's got great form
    and he's motivated since I'm convinced this is his last year.
    For most Germans, from my experience, the hard working craftsman,
    which Erik is, is greater than the Phenom with failings which Jan is.
    Just hoping that Jan get's it done and Erik grabs the Green too.
    Bill C

  8. "Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:


    Bob, I think a large part of this is that Zabel is the number one man
    in Germany and he's always competitive. Erik is the "common man"
    working his ass off for results and people relate to that. Jan is the
    pampered former East German prodigy who is a partier, headcase and
    doesn't work hard enough.

    I'm pretty sure Zabel was East German, too.

  9. Kurgan Gringioni said:
    Tom said:

    The Tour de France. Telekom is committed to getting the win for


    Jan.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    If they were smart, they'd leave Zabel at home for the Tour and
    completely concentrate on Jan. That would stink, but that's what


    they

    Quoted message said:

    should do instead of trying to get stage wins for Zabel. Get


    another

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    mountain support rider in there to help out old Jan in the high
    mountains.

    Dumbass -

    In past years, 1 extra rider for Jan would have made zero difference.

    In the meantime, in past years, Zabel was the UCI #1 rider.

    thanks,

    K. Gringioni

    Exactly🙂

    And.... Zabel has always done plenty of work for Jan. Erik is a fine
    TTT rider and definitely classy enough to hang on for a few mountains.
    Besides that, he takes some pressure of the other riders backs.


  10. Quoted message said:

    I think Erik can win the Green again this year. He's got great form
    and he's motivated since I'm convinced this is his last year.

    Quoted message said:

    Bill C

    R U crazy? The podium of the green jersey is already known: McEwen,
    Hushovd, Boonen. But i don't know in which order.

    Kenny

  11. Bill C said:

    If he's really in shape this should be a
    good year for him, maybe the last good one. Teams and racers have


    been

    Quoted message said:

    really agressive and I think that could play right into his strength


    by

    Quoted message said:

    keeping the pace high for long periods.

    Isn't this what Postal had been doing for the last 3-4 years? It seems
    to work against him.

  12. Carl Sundquist said:

    "Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:


    Bob, I think a large part of this is that Zabel is the number one


    man

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    in Germany and he's always competitive. Erik is the "common man"
    working his ass off for results and people relate to that. Jan is


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    pampered former East German prodigy who is a partier, headcase and
    doesn't work hard enough.

    I'm pretty sure Zabel was East German, too.

    The difference is in how they act and perform. Zabel has always pretty
    much been "Joe Average" who shows up everyday and does his work without
    a fuss. Jan was the "Wunderkind" with the entourage and odd behavior.
    You know how the Eastern system used to work, Jan was project #1 and
    everybody else was pretty far down the list. Where Zabel has done
    everything he could with his talent and not gotten a lot of special
    treatment, Jan has had to be babysat and he still couldn't come into
    the year in shape and just isn't seen as dedicated.
    The only relevance the E German thing had was that he was the star in
    that system and you know how much special treatment they got compared
    to the average guy in the same system.
    Bill C

  13. gym.gravity said:
    Bill C said:

    If he's really in shape this should be a
    good year for him, maybe the last good one. Teams and racers have


    been

    Quoted message said:

    really agressive and I think that could play right into his


    strength

    Quoted message said:

    by

    Quoted message said:

    keeping the pace high for long periods.

    Isn't this what Postal had been doing for the last 3-4 years? It


    seems

    Quoted message said:

    to work against him.

    The problem is I don't see any other way for him to win unless the
    other 3 or 4 real contenders fall off somewhere. There've been lots of
    health and fitness questions the last few years. I don't expect him to
    win, but that's the only strategy that I can see that would get him the
    win. He's got to actually be healthy and in shape at the start to have
    any chance at all though.
    Gotta hope for one last big Hurrah from him, Lance, Zabel and the
    others on their way out.
    Bill C

  14. Kurgan Gringioni said:
    Tom said:

    The Tour de France. Telekom is committed to getting the win for Jan.
    If they were smart, they'd leave Zabel at home for the Tour and
    completely concentrate on Jan. That would stink, but that's what

    they

    Quoted message said:

    should do instead of trying to get stage wins for Zabel. Get another
    mountain support rider in there to help out old Jan in the high
    mountains.

    Dumbass -

    In past years, 1 extra rider for Jan would have made zero difference.

    In the meantime, in past years, Zabel was the UCI #1 rider.

    thanks,

    K. Gringioni.

    Totally agree.

    Hopefully, they will not listen to Kloden's whineing, and Zabel will
    ride the Tour this year.

  15. Bill C said:


    Carl Sundquist said:

    "Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:


    Bob, I think a large part of this is that Zabel is the number one


    man

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    in Germany and he's always competitive. Erik is the "common man"
    working his ass off for results and people relate to that. Jan is


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    pampered former East German prodigy who is a partier, headcase and
    doesn't work hard enough.

    I'm pretty sure Zabel was East German, too.

    The difference is in how they act and perform. Zabel has always pretty
    much been "Joe Average" who shows up everyday and does his work without
    a fuss. Jan was the "Wunderkind" with the entourage and odd behavior.
    You know how the Eastern system used to work, Jan was project #1 and
    everybody else was pretty far down the list. Where Zabel has done
    everything he could with his talent and not gotten a lot of special
    treatment, Jan has had to be babysat and he still couldn't come into
    the year in shape and just isn't seen as dedicated.
    The only relevance the E German thing had was that he was the star in
    that system and you know how much special treatment they got compared
    to the average guy in the same system.
    Bill C

    While I agree with your overall assessment of the two riders in question,
    I believe that the influence of the GDR system on how they behaved as
    professionals is a bit overrated. Ullrich was only 16 and Zabel 20 when
    Germany reunited. While Zabel became pro in 1992 (two years after
    Reunification), Ullrich went pro in 1995. Yes, they were built as
    junior riders in the GDR system, both were probably heavily influenced in
    the following years as well.

    The main difference between the two riders, regardless of the GDR system,
    is that Zabel, while appearing to be laid back and having a likable
    character (as can be witnessed in interviews and the excellent documentary
    "Hoellentour", Tour from Hell), is a very motivated and ambitious person
    with a hunger to win. Ullrich in contrast, while super-talented, doesn't
    seem to have that uberdrive that is necessary to compete with riders of
    equal talent. In interviews I have seen with him, he expresses that he
    really does want to win the Tour and is convinced that he can do so, but
    also realizes that there seems to be more to life than cycling. He would
    have gotten away with this attitude if there hadn't been Lance Armstrong
    with superior determination and Bruyneel with superior tactics.

    I don't think that Ullrich stands a chance against Armstrong and
    the Discovery team with the questionable tactics of T-Mobile's Godefroot
    and Kummer. While a moot point now, he should have accepted any offer from
    Riis. He would have had better chances with the better team preparation at
    CSC, but might not have had full saying about how to live his life.

    BTW, Zabel is looking for a contract renewal and it has been hinted that
    he will indeed start in this year's Tour. I don't think he will be a
    contender for the points jersey, but he is still capable of making the
    flat stages interesting.

    Cheers
    Andy

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