Gordon Pirie Forefoot Running, does it work

(Graham Moore) said:

Hi,

I have read Gordon Pirie's book on forefoor running technique. I have suffered several annoying
injuries lately. I would be interested to hear if anyone has adopted Gordon's running style of
landing on the ball of the foot rather than the heel. Has it worked for you?

Yes, it has. Started in October last year, ran about 2800 km since then, 2600 km of them in racing
flats, works well for me. Search for Ozzie Gontangs posts, they will provide further guidance.
Gordon Pirie's book is a real treasure.

--
Christian Lemburg, <[email hidden]>, clemburg.comclemburg.comOpen ↗

A mathematician is a machine for converting coffee into theorems.

In article said:

Hi,

I have read Gordon Pirie's book on forefoor running technique. I have suffered several annoying
injuries lately. I would be interested to hear if anyone has adopted Gordon's running style of
landing on the ball of the foot rather than the heel. Has it worked for you?

The emphasis on "forefoot landing" or "ball striking" is IMO misplaced. You should be able to get
rid of overstriding / heel landing problems by not overstriding, and trying to "run quietly".
Optimal stride rate for efficiency is 180/min (3 per second), what stride rate do you run at ? If
it's much less than that, you can make quite a lot of progress just by keeping in mind the fact that
you should be using short, light strides.

Other things that could help are form drills -- Lyndon posted a few. I think three of them are
running with high knees, running with feet very low to the ground, and "butt kicks" (running with an
exaggerated back kick). Lyndon's recommendation was to do these form drills at the start of a
workout, and only do them over a short distance (maybe 40 meters)

One thing that would not help is trying to forcefully and consciously "forefoot strike". One of the
posters here hurt himself badly in very little time (less than 20 minutes) by trying to "learn the
ball strike".

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

(Graham Moore) said:

Hi,

I have read Gordon Pirie's book on forefoor running technique. I have suffered several annoying
injuries lately. I would be interested to hear if anyone has adopted Gordon's running style of
landing on the ball of the foot rather than the heel. Has it worked for you?

Thanks,

Graham.

Toss your nikes and get a new brand. You'll see an improvement right off.

In article <[email hidden]>, Graham Moore

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I have read Gordon Pirie's book on forefoor running technique. I have suffered several annoying
injuries lately. I would be interested to hear if anyone has adopted Gordon's running style of
landing on the ball of the foot rather than the heel. Has it worked for you?

Thanks,

Graham.

Graham,

Here's a series of posts talking about Marching In Place as a way of starting to land ball heel.

Hope it helps.

Donovan's caveat is real when one doesn't think through the process.

The marching in place is an easy and normal way to start as you realize that you do land ball/heel
as you march in place. Also you land ball/heel if you jump off a ledge or low wall in order to
absorb the shock and not jar the body.

Here's the posts:

In article said:

I have been running with Brooks Addiction for about a year. I have flat feet and they seem to have
been the best shoes for me to do a long run. I used them for my last 13.1 mile run in a half
ironman recently. However, it seems that after only about 2 months of about 15-20 miles a week the
outside rear of my shoes show alot of wear.

When should I consider buying new or changing shoes. It seems like that is just a few miles to
have that much wear. I am 5-10 175. or does anyone have a suggestion for another motion control
show that may wear better. OR is there anything I can to do to limit the seemingly isolated wear
on the outside rears of the shoe.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks Matt P.

Matt,

Here are some posts from 1996 on wearing out the back outside of the heel on one's running shoes.

I think this may speak a bit to your shoe wear.

Ozzie

==============beginning of post 1=============

Doug,

I wanted to open a dialogue about the power runners give away by not thinking about form and style.
I go back to George Sheehan's comment, "First, be a good animal." Shoe styles, a great deal of
research, etc. have the unspoken assumption that runners should land on their heels first. That is
translated into the runners mind by a picture of the heel strike being the back of the heel of the
shoe...with very few thinking that the heel of the foot is an inch and a half or more in front of
the heel of the shoe....and the vector force of body into the ground is in front of the foot's heel.

How many of you reading this have taken off your shoes and run on grass barefoot to see what it
feels like when there is no cushion to mask improper landing on the back of the heel of the foot.

Let me know what you've learned from doing it? Remember, if you have not followed my earlier
thoughts, I often say, "Do it, lovingly." which to me means take care of the one body you have so
that it can serve you well for the 80 to 120+ years. Go for the grace.

In article said:

Ozzie Gontang askes:
|> It is my belief that after 20 years of watching runners, and training and coaching running form
|> and style, "Heel Strikers are Overstriders."
|>
|> If you are running towards me and I can see the bottoms of your shoes from the front to the
|> heel, you are overstriding. If you come down on the heel of the shoe, you are landing behind
|> the heel of the foot which is about an inch or inch and a half in front of the back of the shoe
|> heel.
[ alittle snip]
|>
|> Shoes will get more technical to deal the injuries caused not by running but by improper
|> running. I continue to go to Road Runner Sport outlet store and buy size 13 shoes that people
|> have returned because they didn't work for them. It's not only the shoes that can be the
|> problem but the unthinking runner who doesn't think about moving over the earth with grace and
|> ease for 80 to 120 years.
|>
|> And so what do you think?
Ozzie, For what it's worth I agree that heel strikers are over striders. Having said that, I worry
that people will in mass, look at the heels and try to alter their running stride. An individuals
foot plant, right or wrong, seems to be a natural phenomenon and over time becomes a habit and all
their muscles, ligaments and tendons strengthen that style. I don't think you are suggesting that
people should change, but some people might read otherwise.

In past years, landing on your heels was the "correct" form and many runners started to change
their style. Toe and fore-foot strikers dug in their heels and as you would expect, the injury
rate increased dramatically.

My long-winded answer is, yes, a mid-foot striker is probably the most efficient running style but
unless one is very careful I would not alter your running form. Even the Podiatrists answer to all
foot injuries, orhtodicts, have to be gradually worked into the running regimen. To correct years
of over/under pronation takes time to adjust.

I'm sure there is anecdotal evidence that people have changed, so I wouldn't say it's not
possible. Then again, if your running style is working; you are injury free - stay the course.

A few mills worth..

--
Doug Freese All opinions are mine. IBM Tele: 8-293-8098 INTERNET [email hidden] AT&T (914)
433-8098 Beemermail [email hidden] VM_mail DVFREESE@MHV

==============end of post 1=============

==============beginning of post 2=============

Quoted message said:

Ozzie,

I want to thank you very much for your advice concerning my

overstriding.

Quoted message said:

I've taken your advice (i.e., marching in place--a practice that six years in the military prepared
me quite well for🙂 and I've noticed a significant difference in my stride.

I no longer seem to be getting the excessive wear on the outside heel

of

Quoted message said:

my shoes which I was experiencing. Nor, even more fortunately, am I experiencing the ankle pain I
would regularly get (which was probably the result of my overstriding rather than excessive
pronation).

So once, again, my sincere thanks.

Dave [email hidden]
------------------------------------------------------------------------

-

Quoted message said:

Unfinished business: May 5, 1996 City of Pittsburgh Marathon

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that
none of it has tried to contact us."

Quoted message said:

--Calvin & Hobbes

==============end of post 2=============

=============beginning of post 3===========

In article 01be5549$ad2c7ca0$5a3ff1cf@default said:

On my longer runs, I begin to get pain in the ball of my foot at about the ten mile mark. Have
tried different shoes, inserts; so far not much luck.

Anyone have a distance training shoe suggestion, or any other solutions?

Is it only on one foot or the ball of the foot on both feet. If it's both, I might suspect that you
are a heel striker and your forefoot slaps down each and every step. It would be akin to lightly
tapping you on the head with my fist a million times. After a while it starts to be accumulative.

March in place. Notice you lift your knees. Now if you continued to march in place but leaned from
the ankle keeping the body erect, the lean being only a half inch, you'd notice that you're still
lifting your feet up and down but every time you place you foot down, it's about 2 to 4 inches in
place of the other foot and under your center of gravity. That's what runnings about.

Image: broom handle balanced in the palm of your hand. The broom handle is your slightly leaned
body, the hand is the earth. If the broom handle starts to fall and you move your hand in the same
direction it's falling at the same speed it's falling, it won't fall but keeps on moving in the
direction it's going.

Go out and practice likewise!

===============end of post 3===================

In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer - rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon
Clinic, est. 1975

Mindful Running: mindfulness.commr.aspOpen ↗ faqs.orgrunning faqOpen ↗

(Graham Moore) said:

Hi,

I have read Gordon Pirie's book on forefoor running technique. I have suffered several annoying
injuries lately. I would be interested to hear if anyone has adopted Gordon's running style of
landing on the ball of the foot rather than the heel. Has it worked for you?

I've just changed - it's going OK so far. I'm not a very experienced runner, nor particularly fit. I
find it does come easier at a faster cadence, but this can result in me trying to run too fast. It's
also good for a slow run, but I did get sore calves for a couple of days - nothing major though. It
feels smoother and easier - less effort. I'm slightly concerned about whether I look a fool,
pitter-pattering across the earth's surface in falling mode, but what the hell! I'm going to get my
kids to watch me, and if they don't rip me too much I'll stick with it. I don't want to race - I
want to be able to run/jog long distances without getting sore knees etc., and preferably a bit
faster than last year. It looks as though this will be achievable. Read all Ozzie's stuff - it's
very helpful, very good.

--
Paul My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003): paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗

Please sponsor me for the London Marathon at: justgiving.comlondon2004Open ↗

When I was 16 or so, we got a new trackcoach who told me, then new to trackrunning, to run on the
balls of my feet at all times. And I did, and within 3 months developed a nasty case of shinsplints
of both feet. I took 6 months to get better and troubled me bigtime for years afterwards.

That's just one story; but I would be careful and go gradually with this. Monitoring cadence seems
like a good option.

Pirie has some interesting views in his book, including whats discussed here, BUT when I read it he
stuck me as being quite extreme in some areas as well, so I wouldn't take all his views to heart
without first looking for other qualified opinions.

-Arne

Donovan Rebbechi said:

One thing that would not help is trying to forcefully and consciously "forefoot strike". One of
the posters here hurt himself badly in very little time (less than 20 minutes) by trying to "learn
the ball strike".

Amen to that. I think forefoot striking should be the *end result* of other changes made to you
running form, not the beginning. As you say, sort out the cadence and the move away from heel
striking comes naturally.

Tim
--
Remove the obvious to reply by email.

Arne Todnem Vik-Mo said:

When I was 16 or so, we got a new trackcoach

Did he *touch you* Arne?

Arne Todnem Vik-Mo said:

When I was 16 or so, we got a new trackcoach

Did he *touch you* Arne?

"Arne Todnem Vik-Mo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

When I was 16 or so, we got a new trackcoach who told me, then new to trackrunning, to run on the
balls of my feet at all times. And I did, and within 3 months developed a nasty case of
shinsplints of both feet. I took 6 months to get better and troubled me bigtime for years
afterwards.

That's just one story; but I would be careful and go gradually with this. Monitoring cadence seems
like a good option.

Pirie has some interesting views in his book, including whats discussed here, BUT when I read it
he stuck me as being quite extreme in some areas as well, so I wouldn't take all his views to
heart without first looking for other qualified opinions.

-Arne

Thanks to all that replied to my posting on forefoot running. I have read through all the
information and will now try to concentrate on the marching drills etc and pay a little more
attention to stride length rather than overconcern myself with making sure I land on the ball
of the foot.

I think the caveat of taking care when changing running form is important. I tried this earlier on
and found that it resulted in foot pain around the arch and ankle. I guess any change needs to be
implemented slowly and carefully.

Once again thanks for the help.

Graham.