Good wheels

"Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Nakashima said:

"Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Jun 26, 1:16 pm, "Tom Nakashima" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> "Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in
> message

Quoted message said:

>news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

> > On Jun 26, 12:33 pm, "Tom Nakashima" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> >> "Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in
> >> message

Quoted message said:

> >>news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

> >> >> Nah, dismissing a Rivendell apologist is much more fun!
> >> > Sic semper hobbits! ;-)

Quoted message said:

> >> Not sure why you keep dissing Rivendell Bicycles,

Quoted message said:

> > It's a couple of things.

Quoted message said:

> > One is the whole "Riv cult". You can get a taste on one of the
> > Google
> > Groups (RBW Owners?). I suggest doing so on an empty stomach.

Quoted message said:

> > The second is my opinion that Riv has abandoned their (alleged)
> > "founding principles" of sensible, practical versatile bikes in
> > favor
> > of niche marketing (in the form of leading consumers down the
> > slippery
> > slope of weirdly sized wheels and tires *and* in inventing new
> > "catergories" of bikes in the hope of, basically, selling the same
> > frame to the same person a second [third? fourth?] time.)

Quoted message said:

> >> I met Grant Peterson,
> >> he's a very nice person. He had a vision to own a bicycle company,
> >> and
> >> he's
> >> fulfilling his dream. I don't see anything wrong with that. I've
> >> talked
> >> to
> >> quite a few master craftsman, Albert Eisentraut, Richard Sachs,
> >> Brian
> >> Bayless, John Slawta, Bruce Gordon, Joe Bell to name a few, it's
> >> not
> >> like
> >> they're making tons of money at this.

Quoted message said:

> > I would not put Grant Peterson, a salesman, in the same company as a
> > "master craftsman", unless the art was shoveling bovine excrement
> > and
> > calling it ice cream. YMMV.

Quoted message said:

> I believe Grant Peterson was a designer when he was with Bridgestone
> Bicycles.

Quoted message said:

ISTR he was the sales manager. Did he have some input? Sure. How much?
We'll never know.

Quoted message said:

>Scott Nicol (founder of Ibis Cycles) is another I enjoyed chatting
> with.
> I suppose he's another you would classify as "niche marketing".

Quoted message said:

So now you've taken the comparison with Eisentraut, Bruce Gordon,
etc., out of the discussion and introduced Scot Nicol. Why is that?

Scott was much like Peterson, I don't believe he's a master craftsman
like
Slawta, Gordon, Eisentraut, Sachs, but he had ideas just like Peterson
has.
It's all there if you do your research and know your bike history, so I'm
surprised you asked that.

Your answer shows *exactly* why I asked the question. The answer is
that, upon reflection, you decided you had Peterson in the wrong
company, right?(IMO, putting Peterson in with folks like Eisentraut,
BG, Richard Sachs, etc., does them a disservice.)

Joe Bell isn't in the class of Eisentraut or Sachs either, I didn't hear
you mention his name. These were just a list of some of the people whom I
spoke with about their interest in bicycling. Grant Peterson had good ideas
just as Scott Nicol had for Ibis Cycles. Can't knock a man for fulfilling
his dreams. Has Grant Peterson done anything to you? Or bad-mouthed
Ozark Bicycles?
-tom

Tom Nakashima said:

"Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Nakashima said:

"Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On Jun 26, 1:16 pm, "Tom Nakashima" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> "Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in
>> message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> > On Jun 26, 12:33 pm, "Tom Nakashima" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> >> "Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in
>> >> message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> >>news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> >> >> Nah, dismissing a Rivendell apologist is much more fun!
>> >> > Sic semper hobbits! ;-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> >> Not sure why you keep dissing Rivendell Bicycles,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> > It's a couple of things.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> > One is the whole "Riv cult". You can get a taste on one of the
>> > Google
>> > Groups (RBW Owners?). I suggest doing so on an empty stomach.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> > The second is my opinion that Riv has abandoned their (alleged)
>> > "founding principles" of sensible, practical versatile bikes in
>> > favor
>> > of niche marketing (in the form of leading consumers down the
>> > slippery
>> > slope of weirdly sized wheels and tires *and* in inventing new
>> > "catergories" of bikes in the hope of, basically, selling the same
>> > frame to the same person a second [third? fourth?] time.)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> >> I met Grant Peterson,
>> >> he's a very nice person. He had a vision to own a bicycle company,
>> >> and
>> >> he's
>> >> fulfilling his dream. I don't see anything wrong with that. I've
>> >> talked
>> >> to
>> >> quite a few master craftsman, Albert Eisentraut, Richard Sachs,
>> >> Brian
>> >> Bayless, John Slawta, Bruce Gordon, Joe Bell to name a few, it's
>> >> not
>> >> like
>> >> they're making tons of money at this.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> > I would not put Grant Peterson, a salesman, in the same company as a
>> > "master craftsman", unless the art was shoveling bovine excrement
>> > and
>> > calling it ice cream. YMMV.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> I believe Grant Peterson was a designer when he was with Bridgestone
>> Bicycles.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> ISTR he was the sales manager. Did he have some input? Sure. How much?
> We'll never know.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>Scott Nicol (founder of Ibis Cycles) is another I enjoyed chatting
>> with.
>> I suppose he's another you would classify as "niche marketing".

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> So now you've taken the comparison with Eisentraut, Bruce Gordon,
> etc., out of the discussion and introduced Scot Nicol. Why is that?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Scott was much like Peterson, I don't believe he's a master craftsman
like
Slawta, Gordon, Eisentraut, Sachs, but he had ideas just like Peterson
has.
It's all there if you do your research and know your bike history, so I'm
surprised you asked that.

Quoted message said:

Your answer shows *exactly* why I asked the question. The answer is
that, upon reflection, you decided you had Peterson in the wrong
company, right?(IMO, putting Peterson in with folks like Eisentraut,
BG, Richard Sachs, etc., does them a disservice.)

Joe Bell isn't in the class of Eisentraut or Sachs either, I didn't hear
you mention his name.

I'm sure you have a point here???

Quoted message said:

These were just a list of some of the people whom I
spoke with about their interest in bicycling. Grant Peterson had good ideas
just as Scott Nicol had for Ibis Cycles. Can't knock a man for fulfilling
his dreams. Has Grant Peterson done anything to you? Or bad-mouthed
Ozark Bicycles?

Rivendell is a bike frame reseller; IOW, a business like any other. I
think their current direction does their potential customers a
disservice, so I call [censored] when I see it.

Grant Peterson doesn't seem to have problems lobbing a few grenades at
alot of the rest of the bike industry. The folksy, passive aggressive
tone doesn't alter that fact.

"Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Nakashima said:

"Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Jun 26, 4:01 pm, "Tom Nakashima" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> "Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in
> message

Quoted message said:

>news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

> > On Jun 26, 1:16 pm, "Tom Nakashima" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> >> "Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in
> >> message

Quoted message said:

> >>news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

> >> > On Jun 26, 12:33 pm, "Tom Nakashima" <[email hidden]>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> "Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote
> >> >> in
> >> >> message

Quoted message said:

> >> >>news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

> >> >> >> Nah, dismissing a Rivendell apologist is much more fun!
> >> >> > Sic semper hobbits! ;-)

Quoted message said:

> >> >> Not sure why you keep dissing Rivendell Bicycles,

Quoted message said:

> >> > It's a couple of things.

Quoted message said:

> >> > One is the whole "Riv cult". You can get a taste on one of the
> >> > Google
> >> > Groups (RBW Owners?). I suggest doing so on an empty stomach.

Quoted message said:

> >> > The second is my opinion that Riv has abandoned their (alleged)
> >> > "founding principles" of sensible, practical versatile bikes in
> >> > favor
> >> > of niche marketing (in the form of leading consumers down the
> >> > slippery
> >> > slope of weirdly sized wheels and tires *and* in inventing new
> >> > "catergories" of bikes in the hope of, basically, selling the
> >> > same
> >> > frame to the same person a second [third? fourth?] time.)

Quoted message said:

> >> >> I met Grant Peterson,
> >> >> he's a very nice person. He had a vision to own a bicycle
> >> >> company,
> >> >> and
> >> >> he's
> >> >> fulfilling his dream. I don't see anything wrong with that. I've
> >> >> talked
> >> >> to
> >> >> quite a few master craftsman, Albert Eisentraut, Richard Sachs,
> >> >> Brian
> >> >> Bayless, John Slawta, Bruce Gordon, Joe Bell to name a few, it's
> >> >> not
> >> >> like
> >> >> they're making tons of money at this.

Quoted message said:

> >> > I would not put Grant Peterson, a salesman, in the same company
> >> > as a
> >> > "master craftsman", unless the art was shoveling bovine excrement
> >> > and
> >> > calling it ice cream. YMMV.

Quoted message said:

> >> I believe Grant Peterson was a designer when he was with
> >> Bridgestone
> >> Bicycles.

Quoted message said:

> > ISTR he was the sales manager. Did he have some input? Sure. How
> > much?
> > We'll never know.

Quoted message said:

> >>Scott Nicol (founder of Ibis Cycles) is another I enjoyed chatting
> >> with.
> >> I suppose he's another you would classify as "niche marketing".

Quoted message said:

> > So now you've taken the comparison with Eisentraut, Bruce Gordon,
> > etc., out of the discussion and introduced Scot Nicol. Why is that?

Quoted message said:

> Scott was much like Peterson, I don't believe he's a master craftsman
> like
> Slawta, Gordon, Eisentraut, Sachs, but he had ideas just like Peterson
> has.
> It's all there if you do your research and know your bike history, so
> I'm
> surprised you asked that.

Quoted message said:

Your answer shows *exactly* why I asked the question. The answer is
that, upon reflection, you decided you had Peterson in the wrong
company, right?(IMO, putting Peterson in with folks like Eisentraut,
BG, Richard Sachs, etc., does them a disservice.)

Joe Bell isn't in the class of Eisentraut or Sachs either, I didn't hear
you mention his name.

I'm sure you have a point here???

Quoted message said:

These were just a list of some of the people whom I
spoke with about their interest in bicycling. Grant Peterson had good
ideas
just as Scott Nicol had for Ibis Cycles. Can't knock a man for fulfilling
his dreams. Has Grant Peterson done anything to you? Or bad-mouthed
Ozark Bicycles?

Rivendell is a bike frame reseller; IOW, a business like any other. I
think their current direction does their potential customers a
disservice, so I call [censored] when I see it.

Rivendell has their followers, just has Richard Sachs, Eisentraut, and
Ibis Cycles, etc. Granted their bicycles are different from most of
today's standards. To me this is one of the things that makes cycling
interesting. When I visited the Handmade frames Show in San Jose
this year it was nice to see some of the great master craftsman. One
thing I noticed besides the unique frames and bicycles, they all had
respect for one-another.
-tom

Quoted message said:

Grant Peterson doesn't seem to have problems lobbing a few grenades at
alot of the rest of the bike industry. The folksy, passive aggressive
tone doesn't alter that fact.

In article
<[email hidden]>,
Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

The folksy, passive aggressive
tone doesn't alter that fact.

Garrison Keillor always repelled me too.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,
Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

The folksy, passive aggressive
tone doesn't alter that fact.

Garrison Keillor always repelled me too.

A future Riv model: The Guy Noir, a city bike. Available in Powdermilk
Blue or Rhubarb Pie Red.

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,
Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

The folksy, passive aggressive
tone doesn't alter that fact.

Garrison Keillor always repelled me too.

You sound like you could use some Be-Bop-A-Re-Bop Rhubarb Pie "One
little thing can revive a guy, and that is a piece of rhubarb pie;
Serve it up, nice and hot; Maybe things aren't as bad as you thought."

The passive aggressiveness is is a Scandihoovian thing, we learn it
from a young age.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

landotter said:

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,
Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

The folksy, passive aggressive
tone doesn't alter that fact.

Garrison Keillor always repelled me too.

You sound like you could use some Be-Bop-A-Re-Bop Rhubarb Pie

... and a side of hot, buttered, buckwheat groats.

Quoted message said:

"One
little thing can revive a guy, and that is a piece of rhubarb pie;
Serve it up, nice and hot; Maybe things aren't as bad as you thought."

The passive aggressiveness is is a Scandihoovian thing, we learn it
from a young age.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

landotter said:

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,
Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote:
> The folksy, passive aggressive
> tone doesn't alter that fact.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Garrison Keillor always repelled me too.

Quoted message said:

You sound like you could use some Be-Bop-A-Re-Bop Rhubarb Pie

.. and a side of hot, buttered, buckwheat groats.

......just makes you a regular guy!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"One
little thing can revive a guy, and that is a piece of rhubarb pie;
Serve it up, nice and hot; Maybe things aren't as bad as you thought."

Quoted message said:

The passive aggressiveness is is a Scandihoovian thing, we learn it
from a young age.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

landotter said:

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,
Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote:
> The folksy, passive aggressive
> tone doesn't alter that fact.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Garrison Keillor always repelled me too.

Quoted message said:

You sound like you could use some Be-Bop-A-Re-Bop Rhubarb Pie

.. and a side of hot, buttered, buckwheat groats.

That's one of those foods that tastes just like it sounds. Blech. What
next, shall you suggest pecan pie with a smothering of quinoa cooked
in gizzard broth? I'll have ice cream, thanks, flavored with real
vanilla.

Ozark Bicycle said:

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

landotter said:

On Jun 27, 5:22 pm, Michael Press <[email hidden]> wrote:
> In article
> <[email hidden]>,
> Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > The folksy, passive aggressive
> > tone doesn't alter that fact.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Garrison Keillor always repelled me too.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You sound like you could use some Be-Bop-A-Re-Bop Rhubarb Pie

Quoted message said:

.. and a side of hot, buttered, buckwheat groats.

.....just makes you a regular guy!

Who wants normal? I'll have 2 eggs over easy, biscuits and gravy, and
a side of bacon. Cue sound man to cork insertion!

In article
<[email hidden]>
,

landotter said:

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

landotter said:

On Jun 27, 5:22 pm, Michael Press <[email hidden]> wrote:
> In article
> <[email hidden]>,
> Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

> <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > The folksy, passive aggressive
> > tone doesn't alter that fact.

Quoted message said:

> Garrison Keillor always repelled me too.

Quoted message said:

You sound like you could use some Be-Bop-A-Re-Bop Rhubarb Pie

.. and a side of hot, buttered, buckwheat groats.

That's one of those foods that tastes just like it sounds. Blech.

Ah, but what does it _look_ like?

Quoted message said:

What
next, shall you suggest pecan pie with a smothering of quinoa cooked
in gizzard broth? I'll have ice cream, thanks, flavored with real
vanilla.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press said:

I am a slave to my fashion sense.
I will only ride a frame with a horizontal top tube.

When you get older and want your bars higher, are you going to relent
on this point, or will you use one of those goofy-looking Technomic
stems, or will you just flip your drop bars upside down, DUI style?

Consider your choice carefully, lest the Grant eventually talk you
into using a Portuguese cork saddle and Malaysian brake hoods molded
from gutta-percha.

[Audience chants: "D-U-I! D-U-I! D-U-I!....]

Chalo

Chalo said:

Consider your choice carefully, lest the Grant eventually talk you
into using a Portuguese cork saddle and Malaysian brake hoods molded
from gutta-percha.

"the" Grant, as in the guy at Rivendell? Not even all of his bikes have
level top tubes; according to their own specs, the Atlantis top tube
slopes up 2 degrees, in an effort to get the bars up to a useful place.

-Luigi

--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com

Luigi de Guzman said:

Chalo said:

Consider your choice carefully, lest the Grant eventually talk you
into using a Portuguese cork saddle and Malaysian brake hoods molded
from gutta-percha.

"the" Grant, as in the guy at Rivendell?

The same. Le Grand Grant, duc de Rivendel. Le Rumpkin gras. Maître
des cuirs, des laques, et des ficelles de chanvre.

Quoted message said:

Not even all of his bikes have
level top tubes; according to their own specs, the Atlantis top tube
slopes up 2 degrees, in an effort to get the bars up to a useful place.

You sure that's not a side effect of the [censored]' suspension-corrected
lugged box-crown Rivendell hucking forks?

Chalo

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>
,

landotter said:

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

landotter <[email hidden]> wrote:
> On Jun 27, 5:22 pm, Michael Press <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > In article
> > <[email hidden]>,
> > Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > > The folksy, passive aggressive
> > > tone doesn't alter that fact.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Garrison Keillor always repelled me too.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> You sound like you could use some Be-Bop-A-Re-Bop Rhubarb Pie

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

.. and a side of hot, buttered, buckwheat groats.

Quoted message said:

That's one of those foods that tastes just like it sounds. Blech.

Ah, but what does it _look_ like?

Maggots with a tan.

Chalo said:

Luigi de Guzman said:

Chalo wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Consider your choice carefully, lest the Grant eventually talk you
into using a Portuguese cork saddle and Malaysian brake hoods molded
from gutta-percha.

Quoted message said:

"the" Grant, as in the guy at Rivendell?

The same. Le Grand Grant, duc de Rivendel. Le Rumpkin gras. Maître
des cuirs, des laques, et des ficelles de chanvre.

Quoted message said:

Not even all of his bikes have
level top tubes; according to their own specs, the Atlantis top tube
slopes up 2 degrees, in an effort to get the bars up to a useful place.

You sure that's not a side effect of the [censored]' suspension-corrected
lugged box-crown Rivendell hucking forks?

Probably. Otherwise, a 2 degree upslope seems silly, in that it
doesn't really do much, as evidenced by the 'extended' head tubes on
the Riv frames and the extensive use of spacers and/or those Technomic
stems in the 'up periscope' mode.

In article
<[email hidden]>
,

Chalo said:

Michael Press said:

I am a slave to my fashion sense.
I will only ride a frame with a horizontal top tube.

When you get older and want your bars higher, are you going to relent
on this point, or will you use one of those goofy-looking Technomic
stems, or will you just flip your drop bars upside down, DUI style?

I have seen enough older guys around here running low
bars so that I can burn that bridge when I get to it.

Quoted message said:

Consider your choice carefully, lest the Grant eventually talk you
into using a Portuguese cork saddle and Malaysian brake hoods molded
from gutta-percha.

[Audience chants: "D-U-I! D-U-I! D-U-I!....]

D-I-Y! D-I-Y! D-I-Y! Uhhh ...
D-U-I! D-U-I! D-U-I!

--
Michael Press