Good bike shop

Dr Darth said:

Hunting around the internet for a good price on a 2004 Sirrus Sport
and can't seem to find anyone selling them for less than £499. Is
this price fixing or what?

If a line is selling well enough there's nothing much to gain from
discounting it, except in the very short term. So people don't, and
stick to the SRP.

If you can find a local shop selling it at all it'll probably be at the
same price and you can reap the benefits of buying from a place that
will set it up for you and let you try it out before putting your money
down. IMHO that sort of thing is worth more in the longer term than
saving £20.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Dr Darth said:

Hunting around the internet for a good price on a 2004 Sirrus Sport
and can't seem to find anyone selling them for less than £499. Is
this price fixing or what?

I am unable to find anybody who will sell me a new carbon Windcheetah for
£50. Price-fixing, gotta be.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington
University

Just zis Guy said:

Dr Darth said:

Hunting around the internet for a good price on a 2004 Sirrus Sport
and can't seem to find anyone selling them for less than £499. Is
this price fixing or what?

I am unable to find anybody who will sell me a new carbon Windcheetah for
£50. Price-fixing, gotta be.

Condsidering your excoriation of Bill Zaumen for making dishonest
arguments, you've got a damned cheek here.

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
I have seen the enemy, and he is quite short.

"Keith Willoughby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just zis Guy said:

Dr Darth said:

Hunting around the internet for a good price on a 2004 Sirrus Sport
and can't seem to find anyone selling them for less than £499. Is
this price fixing or what?

I am unable to find anybody who will sell me a new carbon Windcheetah

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

£50. Price-fixing, gotta be.

Condsidering your excoriation of Bill Zaumen for making dishonest
arguments, you've got a damned cheek here.

I'll bite : what's dishonest about the analogy?

cheers,
clive

Clive George said:

"Keith Willoughby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just zis Guy said:

Dr Darth wrote:

> Hunting around the internet for a good price on a 2004 Sirrus Sport
> and can't seem to find anyone selling them for less than £499. Is
> this price fixing or what?

I am unable to find anybody who will sell me a new carbon
Windcheetah for £50. Price-fixing, gotta be.

Condsidering your excoriation of Bill Zaumen for making dishonest
arguments, you've got a damned cheek here.

I'll bite : what's dishonest about the analogy?

Never mind all that, what's a Darth doing looking for a stick bike? Eh?
EH??

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

Clive George said:

"Keith Willoughby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just zis Guy said:

Dr Darth wrote:

> Hunting around the internet for a good price on a 2004 Sirrus Sport
> and can't seem to find anyone selling them for less than £499. Is
> this price fixing or what?

I am unable to find anybody who will sell me a new carbon Windcheetah

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

£50. Price-fixing, gotta be.

Condsidering your excoriation of Bill Zaumen for making dishonest
arguments, you've got a damned cheek here.

I'll bite : what's dishonest about the analogy?

It's not an analogy at all. It was simple mocking.

The reason you can't find a carbon Windcheetah for 50 quid is that they
cost a bajillion times that to make. It's perfectly possible that the
reason you can't find a 2004 Sirrus Sport for less than 499 quid is
price-fixing, especially if 499 is the RRP, considering that similar
price fixing via 'minimum pricing' is hardly uknown in
manufacturer/dealer relationships such as this. Guy, however, evidently
couldn't be bothered to debate the issue, preferring to take the [censored]
out of the OP by using an absurd extrapolation that has little to do
with the original point. Which would hardly bare comment normally,
except I've been reading Guy making about a hundred posts criticising
Bill Zaumen for similar lapses in logic, honesty, and politeness.

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
"I've got nothing against your right leg.
Unfortunately, neither have you."

Dr Darth said:

Hunting around the internet for a good price on a 2004 Sirrus Sport
and can't seem to find anyone selling them for less than £499. Is
this price fixing or what?

Darth.

I don't think that any of them have anything to gain by making their
discount policy public knowledge on the net.

I suspect that if you actually visit a few shops (i.e. physically, in
person) and talk to them you'll find them willing to do deals. These may
take various forms such as price discounts or free bits and pieces like
pumps, lights and pedals.

If they won't do deals it's because they don't need your business at lower
prices.
--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "He has no enemies, but is intensely disliked by his
friends." -Oscar Wilde
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk

"Dr Darth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hunting around the internet for a good price on a 2004 Sirrus Sport
and can't seem to find anyone selling them for less than £499. Is
this price fixing or what?

Darth.

These are popular bikes so why would the shop discount them if they are
selling anyway? When I tried to buy a Spec Comp from my LBS a few weeks back
they were sold out at all 3 shops, and the factory was as well, and they
arent making any more, they are now gearing up for the 2005 bikes. Evans in
London might have some Sports, they have got some comps and elites.
BW looking at the Spec web site, next years Sirrus wont have triples, they
will be doubles, 53/36 (from memory) rather than 52/42/30. That doesnt sound
like an improvement to me....or do the the ranges overlap enough that it
makes no diff in practice?

FWIW if you are small, evans have the 2003 Spec Sport for only £350. (only
got size 47 according to their web site)

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

Keith Willoughby said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Condsidering your excoriation of Bill Zaumen for making dishonest
arguments, you've got a damned cheek here.

The reason you can't find a carbon Windcheetah for 50 quid is that they
cost a bajillion times that to make.

Bajillion times? Considering your excoriation of Guy for making
dishonest arguments, you've got a damned cheek here ;-)

Tony

Clive George said:

"Keith Willoughby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just zis Guy said:

Dr Darth wrote:

> Hunting around the internet for a good price on a 2004 Sirrus Sport
> and can't seem to find anyone selling them for less than £499. Is
> this price fixing or what?

I am unable to find anybody who will sell me a new carbon Windcheetah

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

£50. Price-fixing, gotta be.

Condsidering your excoriation of Bill Zaumen for making dishonest
arguments, you've got a damned cheek here.

I'll bite : what's dishonest about the analogy?

Because its a cheap shot that does nothing to add to the argument?

There can be no denying it, large amounts of price fixing does go in the
bike shop trade, with some suppliers forcing absolute pricing on their
dealers.

When I next want to buy a new bike, if its the same make as I have now, my
first call will be to the DTI.

Steve

Steve Peake said:

There can be no denying it, large amounts of price fixing does go in the
bike shop trade, with some suppliers forcing absolute pricing on their
dealers.

That wouldn't surprise me in the least, but it's also the case that with
popular bike models there's no /point/ in discounting them and the SRP
is an obvious benchmark point if nobody's forcing you. If they'll sell
anyway, why make less money? Try and get a discount on a Brompton:
very, very hard to come by, and no coincidence that they're getting to
the point where they could beat customers off with a [censored] stick and
/still/ sell the things.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

in message <[email hidden]>, Steve Peake

(') said:

There can be no denying it, large amounts of price fixing does go in
the bike shop trade, with some suppliers forcing absolute pricing on
their dealers.

I only ran a bike shop for a few months and that's more than thirty
years ago. At the time I did it I was not aware of price fixing -
no-one was leaning on us about prices - and I'm not aware of it now.

Most LBSs are very small businesses operating on literally tiny margins.
High spec bikes are the only things they sell on which there is a
useful amount of profit to be made. It's not surprising that most of
them ask full RRP for them. However, if you ask, I'm sure you will find
you can get a deal on other purchases made at the same time, or even a
discount on the bike itself.

The only place LBSs make any real money these days is on repairs and
servicing, and it amazes me that many bother to keep as much stock as
they do.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Hobbit ringleader gives Sauron One in the Eye.

Tony Raven said:

Keith Willoughby said:

Quoted message said:

>
>Condsidering your excoriation of Bill Zaumen for making dishonest
>arguments, you've got a damned cheek here.

The reason you can't find a carbon Windcheetah for 50 quid is that
they
cost a bajillion times that to make.

Bajillion times? Considering your excoriation of Guy for making
dishonest arguments, you've got a damned cheek here ;-)

Forgot a footnote: For some definitions of bajillion. :-)

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
What ain't we got? We ain't got mates

Tony Raven said:

Keith Willoughby said:

Quoted message said:

>
>Condsidering your excoriation of Bill Zaumen for making dishonest
>arguments, you've got a damned cheek here.

The reason you can't find a carbon Windcheetah for 50 quid is that
they
cost a bajillion times that to make.

Bajillion times? Considering your excoriation of Guy for making
dishonest arguments, you've got a damned cheek here ;-)

Bajillion's just a convenient way to write "about 25". Don't you know
anything?

A

Simon Brooke said:

The only place LBSs make any real money these days is on repairs and
servicing, and it amazes me that many bother to keep as much stock as
they do.

It's strange that you say that because I was told that several of the
Reading LBS's stopped doing repairs last year. I assumed they thought they
could make enough money from sales.

Anyone know the current situation?

--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "He has never been known to use a word that might send a
reader to the dictionary." - William Faulkner (about Ernest Hemingway)
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk

"Michael MacClancy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke said:

The only place LBSs make any real money these days is on repairs and
servicing, and it amazes me that many bother to keep as much stock as
they do.

It's strange that you say that because I was told that several of the
Reading LBS's stopped doing repairs last year. I assumed they thought

they

Quoted message said:

could make enough money from sales.

Anyone know the current situation?

--

I know that Cyclezone in Winnersh and AWCycles just outside Reading both do
repairs. Cant recommend the former highly enough havent used the latter.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Steve Peake

(') said:

There can be no denying it, large amounts of price fixing does go in
the bike shop trade, with some suppliers forcing absolute pricing on
their dealers.

I only ran a bike shop for a few months and that's more than thirty
years ago. At the time I did it I was not aware of price fixing -
no-one was leaning on us about prices - and I'm not aware of it now.

I can absolutely guarantee that price fixing is quite common in the trade,
not via parts but via full bike pricing.

I'm an ex-mechanic and know many people in the trade, it has become beyond
a joke where suppliers will pull contracts rather than let shops sell below
the RRP.

If every supermarket sold beans at exactly the same price we would quite
rightly demand it be looked into, and sledge hammers through doors would
follow, yet we allow bikes shops to have the same price across the whole
country.

We have become too accustomed to being ripped off in this country, we
should no be afraid to shake up the industry a little.

Steve

Peter Clinch said:

Steve Peake said:

There can be no denying it, large amounts of price fixing does go in the
bike shop trade, with some suppliers forcing absolute pricing on their
dealers.

That wouldn't surprise me in the least, but it's also the case that with
popular bike models there's no /point/ in discounting them and the SRP
is an obvious benchmark point if nobody's forcing you. If they'll sell
anyway, why make less money? Try and get a discount on a Brompton:
very, very hard to come by, and no coincidence that they're getting to
the point where they could beat customers off with a [censored] stick and
/still/ sell the things.

Are you seriously saying that one Brompton dealer, perhaps not in the best
shop location, couldn't sell for £5 less to try and attract trade?

I don't know the prices of these bikes, but I'm talking about bikes where
the price charged doesn't differ by a single penny across the whole
country. That isn't supply and demand, it's good old fashioned price
fixing.

Steve

Steve Peake said:

We have become too accustomed to being ripped off in this country, we
should no be afraid to shake up the industry a little.

Steve

Here's a good place to complain to, the Office of Fair Trading. Write to
them and say that you have good reason to believe that there is price
fixing in the bicycle market.

[email hidden]

Let us know what they say.

--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "He is not only dull himself, he is the cause of dullness
in others." -Samuel Johnson
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk