Good Arguments

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:19:01 +0000, jas0n <[email hidden]> wrote in
message <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

where's the part in ir176 where you can get half the cost of the bike? a
galaxy or super galaxy would fall into my price range at that point!

It's just how it works out. Take of VAT, income tax and NI and you
end up with about half the marked price. Or so my mate Arnold found
when he bought his :-)

Guy
--
"then came ye chavves, theyre cartes girded wyth candels
blue, and theyre beastes wyth straynge horn-lyke thyngs
onn theyre arses that theyre fartes be herde from myles
around." Chaucer, the Sheppey Tales

you know? said:

Why put the flames out when you can pour petrol on them and get a
really good blaze going?

Try: "Yes, good, isn't it? Plus, with the IR176 scheme, they will pay
half the cost of the bike as well."

You are a very bad man Mr Chapman.

you know? said:

Why put the flames out when you can pour petrol on them and get a
really good blaze going?

Try: "Yes, good, isn't it? Plus, with the IR176 scheme, they will pay
half the cost of the bike as well."

You are a very bad man Mr Chapman.

Just zis Guy said:

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:19:01 +0000, jas0n <[email hidden]> wrote in
message <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

where's the part in ir176 where you can get half the cost of the bike? a
galaxy or super galaxy would fall into my price range at that point!

It's just how it works out. Take of VAT, income tax and NI and you
end up with about half the marked price. Or so my mate Arnold found
when he bought his :-)

Guy

oh .. so work receive and pay the invoice, id receive a charge in my pay
slip minus the vat but before tax and ni contributions are worked out
.... that how it works?

jas0n said:

where's the part in ir176 where you can get half the cost of the bike? a
galaxy or super galaxy would fall into my price range at that point!

Income tax: about 50% (comprising "normal" income tax + employers and
employees "national insewerants"😉.

VAT 17.5%.

So, that's well over 50% overall:-) But it only works in full if you're
your own employer.

--
Nick Kew

"Nick Kew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

jas0n said:

where's the part in ir176 where you can get half the cost of the bike? a
galaxy or super galaxy would fall into my price range at that point!

Income tax: about 50% (comprising "normal" income tax + employers and
employees "national insewerants"😉.

Who's playing in the higher tax band then?

For a 1000 quid bike for a normal rate taxpayer, the numbers are as follows:
851 ex VAT (17.5%)
754 ex employer's NI (12.8%)
505.50 ex income tax + employees NI (22% + 11%)

ie it costs you 505.50 quid if your employer deducts 754 quid from your
salary, takes account of the NI he saves and the VAT.

For a higher rate taxpayer, they are:
851 ex VAT (17.5%)
754 ex employer's NI (12.8%)
445.15 ex income tax + employees NI (40% + 1% - note how cunningly NI drops
10% at the same time as income tax goes up 18%)

These numbers assume no admin costs, ie a generous employer.

Quoted message said:

So, that's well over 50% overall:-) But it only works in full if you're
your own employer.

cheers,
clive

Richard Bates said:

A fellow employee at my new job is a little vocal about the fact that
I am having a bike shed provided for me.

What good arguments can I use to convince that it is no big deal.

I thought about trying to discover how much it costs to provide a
car-space (and hoping that it is more than the land occupied by my
shed)

There is also the fact that by me not using a car, it is easier for
her to park her car.

What other arguments can you provide me with?

Thanks, Rich x

It clearly is a big deal to her. Why do you have to pacify her anyway.
She is no prohibited from cycling I presume so she too could make use of
it. Its not your bike shed, its for all employees who care to use it I
presume.

David Hansen said:

As well as the
tarmac there is also lighting, line painting and access controls.

And don't forget maintenance, as cars cause a lot more wear and tear
then bikes...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"Richard Bates" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A fellow employee at my new job is a little vocal about the fact that
I am having a bike shed provided for me.

What good arguments can I use to convince that it is no big deal.

I thought about trying to discover how much it costs to provide a
car-space (and hoping that it is more than the land occupied by my
shed)

There is also the fact that by me not using a car, it is easier for
her to park her car.

What other arguments can you provide me with?

Suggest that, if she wants you to forego the benefit of storage space for
your vehicle, then it is only fair that she foregoes the similar benefit --
a parking space -- and parks off site. Then employ the local thugs to --
over a period of a week or three -- remove wing mirrors, smash windows and
fire the wreck. Call the council and have it removed.

T

in message <[email hidden]>, Nick Kew

(') said:

jas0n said:

where's the part in ir176 where you can get half the cost of the
bike? a galaxy or super galaxy would fall into my price range at that
point!

Income tax: about 50% (comprising "normal" income tax + employers and
employees "national insewerants"😉.

VAT 17.5%.

So, that's well over 50% overall:-) But it only works in full if
you're your own employer.

No, it doesn't. The basis of the scheme is: the employer buys the bike,
and reclaims VAT. The employer gives the bike into the employee's
keeping, and the employee (at least theoretically) uses it to ride to
work. Over three years the value of the bike is written down on the
employer's books to virtually nothing ('depreciation'😉 at which point
the employer sells the employee the bike for 50p. In the meantime the
employer can pay for servicing and maintenance (it's 'their' bike after
all).

The Inland Revenue have wrapped this up in a 'scheme' which makes it
look as if the government is being generous to cyclists, but in
practice it works anyway and is very simple to do. If you are an
employer, this is an exceedingly tax efficient way to give a bonus to
an employee who is a keen cyclist.

And it does not have to be a cheap, dull commuter bike.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

<p>Schroedinger's cat is <blink><strong>NOT</strong></blink> dead.</p>

Richard Bates said:

A fellow employee at my new job is a little vocal about the fact that
I am having a bike shed provided for me.

It's not (I hope ;-) being provided for you.

It's being provided for anyone who cycles.

If you're the *only* cyclist at the moment,
other people are clearly being deterred
by the lack of a cycle shed...

To use another example, should cycle paths
only be put in when lots of people are already
cycling, or precisly because people AREN'T
cycling?

BugBear

bugbear said:

To use another example, should cycle paths
only be put in when lots of people are already
cycling, or precisly because people AREN'T
cycling?

Neither. They are almost without exception Works of Stan, which should be
smashed in and done away with as soon as possible.

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

Richard Bates said:

A fellow employee at my new job is a little vocal about the fact that
I am having a bike shed provided for me.

What good arguments can I use to convince that it is no big deal.

I thought about trying to discover how much it costs to provide a
car-space (and hoping that it is more than the land occupied by my
shed)

There is also the fact that by me not using a car, it is easier for
her to park her car.

What other arguments can you provide me with?

A scientific biff to the nut with a shovel is highly recommended.

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 01:50:02 -0000, "Clive George"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Who's playing in the higher tax band then?

Me, but you don't, I think, get high rate tax relief. ICBW.

Guy
--
"then came ye chavves, theyre cartes girded wyth candels
blue, and theyre beastes wyth straynge horn-lyke thyngs
onn theyre arses that theyre fartes be herde from myles
around." Chaucer, the Sheppey Tales

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:53:55 +0000, Al C-F
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

You are a very bad man Mr Chapman.

And, it is said, I run a Bad Railway :-)

Guy
--
"then came ye chavves, theyre cartes girded wyth candels
blue, and theyre beastes wyth straynge horn-lyke thyngs
onn theyre arses that theyre fartes be herde from myles
around." Chaucer, the Sheppey Tales

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 01:50:02 -0000, "Clive George"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Who's playing in the higher tax band then?

Me, but you don't, I think, get high rate tax relief. ICBW.

ITYAW :-)

Quote from IR176:

"Can employers provide cycles free from tax and NICs?
Yes. If an employer provides cycles or cycling safety equipment for their
employees to travel to and from work, the employees will not have to pay tax
or NICs to pay on the benefit."

Now, the way people can use this to get cheap bikes is to drop their salary
pre-tax and have a bike instead. The tax is related to the salary, not the
bike, so there's no question of relief bands.

(which reminds me, there may be pension implications of dropping your
salary, but I'm not sure about this).

cheers,
clive

(working at home is all very well, but it makes all this IR176 stuff a bit
academic)

On 14/2/05 11:27 am, in article [email hidden],

Just zis Guy said:

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 01:50:02 -0000, "Clive George"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Who's playing in the higher tax band then?

Me, but you don't, I think, get high rate tax relief. ICBW.

Yes you do, becasue it comes off the gross pay. So it does come off the top.

...d

Quoted message said:

Neither. They are almost without exception Works of Stan, which
should be smashed in and done away with as soon as possible.

So it's you that has been making them unrideable by scattering pieces of
glass all over them.

Clive George said:

(working at home is all very well, but it makes all this IR176 stuff a bit
academic)

Don't you sometimes have to travel? For your normal use, you have a
normal bike, but for business travel you really need a folding bike
you can take without hassle on the train. Don't you?

--
Nick Kew

Richard Bates said:

A fellow employee at my new job is a little vocal about the fact that
I am having a bike shed provided for me.

Quoted message said:

What good arguments can I use to convince that it is no big deal.

It's more efficient than actually driving the shed to work?
--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]