Gonchar and Honchar?

BJC <[email hidden]> wrote in news:8iMsc.31340$ai7.17014
@fe15.usenetserver.com:

Quoted message said:

This guy is having a hell of a Giro for a guy who has been around for a
long time. Does anybody know why he changed one letter in his name?
Also, on the topic of name changes, why do many of the Latin riders
change or extend their names from season to season?

For latin riders (and latin people in general) it is traditional to take on
their mother's maiden name followed by their father's surname.
This tends to cause the extremely long latin names you'll see somtimes
ie., Carlos Domingo Gomez Rodrigo Gonzales Olano Jimenez Fernandez de Cruz
etc...

Albiet most latinos(as), for the sake of sanity, tend to shorten it to just
their first name followed by father's surname.

- Boyd "Don't know about the (G)Honchar thing" S.

Boyd Speerschneider bspeerscREMOVE_ME@ME_TOOyahoo.com said:

"Don't know about the (G)Honchar thing" S.

I've always heard that it depends on how it's translated from the
Cyrillic spelling into "reglar writin'".

--
David N. Welton
Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/
Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/
Free Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/
Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/

BJC said:

This guy is having a hell of a Giro for a guy who has been around for a
long time. Does anybody know why he changed one letter in his name?
Also, on the topic of name changes, why do many of the Latin riders
change or extend their names from season to season?

--

During the off-season he changes it back to Gonchar and plays defence for the Boston
Bruins ;-) ---> http://www.nhl.com/lineups/player/8458951.html

J. Spaceman

--
My email address ([email hidden]) is fake. Email sent to it will
only get caught in my spam tarpit.

Hon(t)char is Ukrainian spelling; Gon(t)char is Russian (rendered into the
latin alphabet). His first name appears on Italian tv OLN feed as
Serhuei(?) for Sergei.

"Jason Spaceman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

BJC said:

This guy is having a hell of a Giro for a guy who has been around for a
long time. Does anybody know why he changed one letter in his name?
Also, on the topic of name changes, why do many of the Latin riders
change or extend their names from season to season?

--

During the off-season he changes it back to Gonchar and plays defence for

the Boston

Quoted message said:

Bruins ;-) ---> http://www.nhl.com/lineups/player/8458951.html

J. Spaceman

--
My email address ([email hidden]) is fake. Email sent

to it will

Quoted message said:

only get caught in my spam tarpit.

Jrodgers said:

Hon(t)char is Ukrainian spelling; Gon(t)char is Russian (rendered into
the latin alphabet). His first name appears on Italian tv OLN feed as
Serhuei(?) for Sergei.

It's definitely spelled the same way in Russian and Ukrainian - with the
Cyrillic letter "G" (looks like Greek "gamma"😉 but the bilingual
Ukrainian newspapers pretty consistently transliterate into Honchar
instead of Gonchar even though it sounds more like a "g" according to
the pronunciation guides I've seen.

The "t" in Gontchar must be a French thing (like in Tchaikowski), it's
not in the Russian or Ukrainian.

--

I believe that the spelling of his name changed when the Ukranian govt
changed the templates for translating between their language ( some
kind of cyrillic) to language. That changed the 'g' in both his first
and last names to an 'h'. If I remember correctly he was a little
annoyed and wanted to maintain the old english spelling but I guess
the authorities wouldn't allow it.

That is the gist of what I recall.

jrodgers said:

Hon(t)char is Ukrainian spelling; Gon(t)char is Russian (rendered into the
latin alphabet). His first name appears on Italian tv OLN feed as
Serhuei(?) for Sergei.

Somewhere recently maybe bicycling.com this was discussed and it dates
back to the "cultural revolution" when the Soviet Union tried to "unify"
the provinces under one well one everything. Has to do with the towo
alphabets not haveing interchanging letter for G and H. I've forgotten
which way it worked... I think the H is misssing in the cyrillic script.

BJC <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

This guy is having a hell of a Giro for a guy who has been around for a
long time. Does anybody know why he changed one letter in his name?
Also, on the topic of name changes, why do many of the Latin riders
change or extend their names from season to season?

Spanish riders are often refered to by their patrilineal name
(father's family name) often they will also add the mothers name after
that, i.e. Roberto Heras Hernandez. There are further additions some
spaniards include (i.e. Igor Gonzalez _de Galdeano_ may be refering to
a town or region, though I'm not positive), but I don't see them much
in the cycling team rosters.

BJC <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

This guy is having a hell of a Giro for a guy who has been around for a
long time. Does anybody know why he changed one letter in his name?

Like someone said, there is no H in Russian (Ukranian). For example, in
Russian, Hegel is Gegel, but no Russian person has been able to explain
to me why Gogol in English is not Hogol.

-ilan

DiabloScott <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

The "t" in Gontchar must be a French thing (like in Tchaikowski), it's
not in the Russian or Ukrainian.

See the book "The Thread" by Philip Davis
http://www.doyletics.com/_arj1/thread.htm

-ilan

BJC <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

This guy is having a hell of a Giro for a guy who has been around for a
long time. Does anybody know why he changed one letter in his name?
Also, on the topic of name changes, why do many of the Latin riders
change or extend their names from season to season?

There was a note about this in Cycle Sport a few years ago.
Apparently it changes a ton. Taking a couple mins to look through the
more common spellings at cyclingnew.com, I get a TON of options. I'm
sure the permutations take us well into the 20s for one guy.

-a

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=site:www%2Ecyclingnews%2Ecom+gonchar
Serguei Gonchar
Sergei Gonchar
Sergej Gonchar
Sergey Gonchar

http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=Honchar+site%3Awww.cyclingnews.com&btnG=Search
Serhiy Honchar
Sergueï Honchar
Serguei Honchar
Sergei Honchar
Sergej Honchar
Sergey Honchar
Sergui Honchar

http://www.google.com/search?q=Hontchar+site%3Awww.cyclingnews.com&num=50&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&c2coff=1
Serhiy Hontchar

http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=Gontchar++site%3Awww.cyclingnews.com&btnG=Search
Serguei Gontchar
Sergei Gontchar

"Boyd Speerschneider" <bspeerscREMOVE_ME@ME_TOOyahoo.com> a écrit dans le
message de :
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

BJC <[email hidden]> wrote in news:8iMsc.31340$ai7.17014
@fe15.usenetserver.com:

Quoted message said:

This guy is having a hell of a Giro for a guy who has been around for a
long time. Does anybody know why he changed one letter in his name?

Not a mystery. Cyrillic, used in Ukraine and Russia, is not the factor.
The "G" in Ukrainian is pronounced, in most cases, as a "H" or "KH". The
passport regime there has made a nationalist point by using the Latin letter
"G" just to confuse the pronunciation, I guess.
--
Bonne route,

Sandy
Paris FR

Boyd Speerschneider <bspeerscREMOVE_ME@ME_TOOyahoo.com> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

BJC <[email hidden]> wrote in news:8iMsc.31340$ai7.17014

For latin riders (and latin people in general) it is traditional to take on
their mother's maiden name followed by their father's surname.
This tends to cause the extremely long latin names you'll see somtimes
ie., Carlos Domingo Gomez Rodrigo Gonzales Olano Jimenez Fernandez de Cruz
etc...

Albiet most latinos(as), for the sake of sanity, tend to shorten it to just
their first name followed by father's surname.

- Boyd "Don't know about the (G)Honchar thing" S.

It's father's last name first, then the mothers. Both are put into
official documents (passports, etc), but usually they drop the
maternal last name.

Looks like other people have explained the Honchar/Gonchar thing
better than me, but i was wondering if it depended on what language
the name was being written for, i.e. Boris Yeltsin, was spelled
differently for Dutch, or you have Usama, or Osama for bin Laden, and
a host of different spellings for Ghadaffi/Quadafi/whatever...

"Andrew Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

BJC <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This guy is having a hell of a Giro for a guy who has been around for a
long time. Does anybody know why he changed one letter in his name?
Also, on the topic of name changes, why do many of the Latin riders
change or extend their names from season to season?

There was a note about this in Cycle Sport a few years ago.
Apparently it changes a ton. Taking a couple mins to look through the
more common spellings at cyclingnew.com, I get a TON of options. I'm
sure the permutations take us well into the 20s for one guy.

LOL! We'll try to stick with Serguei Gonchar from now on.

Jeff

BJC said:

Does anybody know why he changed one letter in his name? Also, on the
topic of name changes, why do many of the Latin riders change or extend
their names from season to season?

First off, let me begin by saying that I speak and read Ukrainian
fluently and am pretty passable at Russian.

Russian and Ukrainian have a similar alphabet (both Cyrillic) but they
are not identical. One big difference is that Ukrainian has both the "G"
and "H" sounds while Russian only has the "G" sound. Now here's the
really confusing part. The Russian alphabet has a single letter "G"
which looks like an upside down capital letter L with no serif. In
Ukrainian, a serif is sometimes added. The serif pointing up makes it a
G while no serif or pointing down is an H.

Russian and Ukrainian languages are also similar (kind of like Spanish
and Italian) but are also not identical. The Ukrainian word for Potter
is "Honchar" while the Russian word is "Gonchar".

In translation, many westerners are still used to the old Soviet style
translations where there is no translation from Ukrainian because it was
not recognized as a "real" language (a Tsarist and Soviet attempt to
destroy Ukrainian culture). Basically the translating culture's
sensitivity to the Ukrainian struggle for cultural identity decides
whether Ukrainian is translated correctly or not.

Typically, english speaking countries translate it as Russian. From
looking at the UCI rankings and the Italian TV, the French and Italians
recognize the difference.

-Andy B.

--

[email hidden] (Andrew Martin) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

BJC <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

This guy is having a hell of a Giro for a guy who has been around for a
long time. Does anybody know why he changed one letter in his name?
Also, on the topic of name changes, why do many of the Latin riders
change or extend their names from season to season?

There was a note about this in Cycle Sport a few years ago.
Apparently it changes a ton. Taking a couple mins to look through the
more common spellings at cyclingnew.com, I get a TON of options. I'm
sure the permutations take us well into the 20s for one guy.

-a

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=site:www%2Ecyclingnews%2Ecom+gonchar
Serguei Gonchar
Sergei Gonchar
Sergej Gonchar
Sergey Gonchar

http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=Honchar+site%3Awww.cyclingnews.com&btnG=Search
Serhiy Honchar
Sergueï Honchar
Serguei Honchar
Sergei Honchar
Sergej Honchar
Sergey Honchar
Sergui Honchar

http://www.google.com/search?q=Hontchar+site%3Awww.cyclingnews.com&num=50&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&c2coff=1
Serhiy Hontchar

http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=Gontchar++site%3Awww.cyclingnews.com&btnG=Search
Serguei Gontchar
Sergei Gontchar

D-I-E-R-C-K-X-S-E-N-S

every language has its own established rules for converting foreign language
characters. In Dutch with our softer G than in English, Gonchar is correct.
And we also should write Jekimov, although most adopt the Ekimov from the
dominant western languages.

Faster Bordello <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

jrodgers said:

Hon(t)char is Ukrainian spelling; Gon(t)char is Russian (rendered into the
latin alphabet). His first name appears on Italian tv OLN feed as
Serhuei(?) for Sergei.

Somewhere recently maybe bicycling.com this was discussed and it dates
back to the "cultural revolution" when the Soviet Union tried to "unify"
the provinces under one well one everything. Has to do with the towo
alphabets not haveing interchanging letter for G and H. I've forgotten
which way it worked... I think the H is misssing in the cyrillic script.

That or Les Nessman is alive and well: "ChI ChI Rod-ROW-gweez"

beerco wrote:

[ ... ]

Quoted message said:

Typically, english speaking countries translate it as Russian. From
looking at the UCI rankings and the Italian TV, the French and Italians
recognize the difference.

Thus, the difference between "Kazakhstan" (transliterated from Russian)
and "Kazakstan" (transliterated from Kazak).

Smith