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Gold Race = [censored]

Kenny · 2003-04-21T10:00:11+00:00

How big was my deception while seeing the Amstel Gold Race. After an excellent Tour of Flanders and Paris-Roubaix this race had realy nothing to offer. This race has no identity. Changing the course every few years makes it that this worlcup race has no points of recognition. In Flanders we have the same final for 30 years. Hills are added in an amount of time of several years but the major hills are always part of the race. Same in P-R with the finish on the track of roubaix and the most famous cobble-zones. I don't know why they want the Gold Race to be more and more a copy of Liege-Bastogne-Liege. Is it to give Boogerd better chances to win the race? I wonder had will happen to the course if boogerd has retired and there is no Holland rider left to win it. Are they going to change the track again because, let's face it, there is no other rider than Boogerd capable of winning on this circuit. Changing the track so heavily lead to a race which is closed during 230 of the 250km. Boring. Second thought. Though this race is a Wordcuprace it isn't by far a Classic. It was only the 38th edition. In comparison to the real classics (Sanremo, flanders, roubaix, L-B-L, tours, lombardy and zurich) it doesn't even deserve the name of wordcuprace. Not only because the track is allways different but also because the terrible organisation. There are cars standing on the most dangerous places, cars parked on one half of the road. You hardly see those things in the other WCraces. An other point of aversion is the fact that several hills are climbed twice. Why the hell is that? It happens in no other major classic (it happens in HEW too but that's even less a WC race than the Gold Race is) It's just an artificial way to make the race harder but once again this doesn't result in attractive racing and it's a WCrace unworthy. It's like climbing the Poggio twice before finishing on the Via Roma. Last thing. Now the finish Tour-finish on top of a col. This is so artificial and there is no other WC races with such a stupid finish. Even Lombardy or L-B-L don't have a finish that is a sprint uphill. All these things make that the Gold Race has no identity and does not deserve the word "classic". It really doesn't fit in the list of WC races in comparison to the real momuments. Gent-Wevelgem or the Fleche Walonne should deserve the label of worldcup race more than the Gold Race. These are reel classics.

Started by Kenny · 21 April 2003 · Last activity 22 April 2003 · 23 posts · 1,507 views

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01 / Original postGold Race = [censored]Kenny · 21 Apr 2003 02 / This pagePosts 1–20Page 1 of 2 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #23Kyle Legate · 22 Apr 2003

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Original section: Road Cycling
Published: 21 April 2003
Last activity: 22 April 2003
Original author: Kenny
Posts: 23
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 1,507
Views / 30 days: 0
Topics: Classics racing

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Original post
Kenny
Archived post

21 April 2003, 10:00 UTC #1

How big was my deception while seeing the Amstel Gold Race. After an excellent Tour of Flanders and
Paris-Roubaix this race had realy nothing to offer. This race has no identity. Changing the course
every few years makes it that this worlcup race has no points of recognition. In Flanders we have
the same final for 30 years. Hills are added in an amount of time of several years but the major
hills are always part of the race. Same in P-R with the finish on the track of roubaix and the most
famous cobble-zones. I don't know why they want the Gold Race to be more and more a copy of
Liege-Bastogne-Liege. Is it to give Boogerd better chances to win the race? I wonder had will happen
to the course if boogerd has retired and there is no Holland rider left to win it. Are they going to
change the track again because, let's face it, there is no other rider than Boogerd capable of
winning on this circuit. Changing the track so heavily lead to a race which is closed during 230 of
the 250km. Boring.
Second thought. Though this race is a Wordcuprace it isn't by far a Classic. It was only the 38th
edition. In comparison to the real classics (Sanremo, flanders, roubaix, L-B-L, tours, lombardy and
zurich) it doesn't even deserve the name of wordcuprace. Not only because the track is allways
different but also because the terrible organisation. There are cars standing on the most dangerous
places, cars parked on one half of the road. You hardly see those things in the other WCraces. An
other point of aversion is the fact that several hills are climbed twice. Why the hell is that? It
happens in no other major classic (it happens in HEW too but that's even less a WC race than the
Gold Race is) It's just an artificial way to make the race harder but once again this doesn't result
in attractive racing and it's a WCrace unworthy. It's like climbing the Poggio twice before
finishing on the Via Roma. Last thing. Now the finish
Tour-finish on top of a col. This is so artificial and there is no other WC races with such a stupid
finish. Even Lombardy or L-B-L don't have a finish that is a sprint uphill.
All these things make that the Gold Race has no identity and does not deserve the word "classic".
It really doesn't fit in the list of WC races in comparison to the real momuments. Gent-Wevelgem or
the Fleche Walonne should deserve the label of worldcup race more than the Gold Race. These are
reel classics.

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Ewoud Dronkert
Archived post

21 April 2003, 11:30 UTC #2

Kenny said:
How big was my deception while seeing the Amstel Gold Race. [...]
Thanks for parrotting Wuyts and Redant.

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Benjo Maso
Archived post

21 April 2003, 12:00 UTC #3

Sure, La Flèche Wallone is a real classic, without any of the flaws of the Amstel Gold Race you
mention. Of course, the finish is op top of a col, which has to be climbed three times. The track is
always the same, except that the start has been in Tournai, Mons, Liège, Charleroi, Verviers,
Esneux, Spa and Huy and the finish in Liège, Marcinelle, Charleroi, Spa, Verviers, Mons and Huy.
Zurich is also an excellent example of what a worldcup race should be. Except of course that the
Regensberg has to be climbed not two , but five times, and that the track is constantly changing.
Until ten years ago the start was in Zurich, then a few times in Basel, than in Zurich again. The
finish also changed, from the Oerlikon track to the Bellerive Strasse. By the way, the new finish on
the Cauberg was not to give Boogerd a better chance to win, but to give Armstrong a better chance to
win, as the organizers admitted.And what´s wrong with a finish on a climb? It´s true that none of
the other worldcup races has it, so isn´t it the best way to get an identity of its own?
Benjo Maso

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Jeff Jones
Archived post

21 April 2003, 13:30 UTC #4

"benjo maso" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

By the way, the new finish on the Cauberg was not to give Boogerd a better chance to win, but
to give Armstrong a better chance to win, as the organizers admitted.And what´s wrong with a
finish on a climb? It´s true that none of the other worldcup races has it, so isn´t it the best
way to get an identity of its own?

I thought the Cauberg had great atmosphere too - better than the finish in Maastricht. I guess they
could put cobbles on it now :-)
cheers, Jeff

Report
Bart
Archived post

21 April 2003, 14:30 UTC #5

Kenny this is patetic. I saw a great race. If it's not your cup, watch over your Museeuw World Cup
wins collections again. When Amstel and Zurich were still fine races...
what to think of us, Belgians, we made the final 15 kms of LBL harder AFTER Criq retired. For
those with no pre-Lance memory: Criq used the be the "strongest" in any LBL, but because of
his shortcomiongs as a finisher, he was always tactically smothered by the few others
remaining at the end.

Report
Benjo Maso
Archived post

21 April 2003, 15:00 UTC #6

"Bart" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Kenny this is patetic. I saw a great race. If it's not your cup, watch over your Museeuw World Cup
wins collections again. When Amstel and Zurich were still fine races...
what to think of us, Belgians, we made the final 15 kms of LBL harder

AFTER
Quoted message said:
Criq retired. For those with no pre-Lance memory: Criq used the be the "strongest" in

any
Quoted message said:
LBL, but because of his shortcomiongs as a finisher, he was always tactically smothered by the few
others remaining at the end.
The funniest L-B-L was when Criquelion and Roche were in front, doing some kind of sur place with
L-B-L director Emile Masson just behind them, yelling that Argentin was coming dangerously close.
Because the crowd was yelling as well, Criq couldn´t hear what Masson was saying. It began only to
dawn on him when Argentin, who had been unanble to follow Criq and Roche on the last climbs, was
already overtaking them. I`ve never seen Argentin so satisfied. Nothing so sweet als a victory you
don´t deserve.
Benjo Maso

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Dieter Buerssne
Archived post

21 April 2003, 17:00 UTC #7

"Bart" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:
Quoted message said:
Kenny this is patetic. I saw a great race. If it's not your cup, watch over your Museeuw World Cup
wins collections again. When Amstel and Zurich were still fine races...
BTW. Zürich in its modern form is a very fine race to watch. When you bring your bike with you, you
can see the riders about 10 times, each time at the top of a hill (or close to it). One can ride
from Forch to the opposite side of the course (the last hill top before the decent to the lake, I
don't know if that hill has a name). It's only about 5 km. Hundreds do it on the bike, some on
motorcycle and few with a car. After the last round, one can find a TV and watch the finish.
Regards, Dieter

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Kenny
Archived post

21 April 2003, 20:00 UTC #8

Ewoud Dronkert <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
Kenny said:
How big was my deception while seeing the Amstel Gold Race. [...]
Thanks for parrotting Wuyts and Redant.
This has nothing to do with that. This is just how i feel about this race. I can't help it but
that's the way i experience this race. i realy get irritated looking at it. It has nothing to do
with a preference for real classic riders or so. I just don't feel the same atmosphere like watching
Milan-Sanremo, Flanders or Roubaix.

Report
Erik Van Leeuwe
Archived post

21 April 2003, 20:30 UTC #9

"Kenny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Ewoud Dronkert <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Kenny said:
How big was my deception while seeing the Amstel Gold Race. [...]
Thanks for parrotting Wuyts and Redant.
This has nothing to do with that. This is just how i feel about this race. I can't help it but
that's the way i experience this race. i realy get irritated looking at it. It has nothing to do
with a preference for real classic riders or so. I just don't feel the same atmosphere like
watching Milan-Sanremo, Flanders or Roubaix.
I think you suffer from a short memory then. Ok, this year's edition wasn't superb, but the last two
editions were really cracking. Maybe the big riders were scared by the climbs in the final part of
the race, maybe the fast first part of the race (that we didn't get to see) was the reason. I do
remember quite disappointing 'big' classics as well. A Paris-Roubaix where the winner is known 40
kms before the finish... gasp. Milan - San Remo where it's allways the Poggio, no matter what
everyone tries. Great... NOT!
Erik

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James P Spooner
Archived post

21 April 2003, 21:00 UTC #10

Dude,
I think you could make a critique of all or at least some of the races mentioned at some point or
other, including now. I seem to recall LBL having its share of organisational difficulties before
the TdF took it over. Lots of good riders avoid Paris Roubaix. MSR has ended in a bunch sprint for
years (except this year). Lombardy made a significant course change in the 80's. Zurich used to be
in the Spring. I think it's the intrinsic value, and therefore the perceived worth of the race that
makes it what it
is. I'm sure the Gold Race is bigger in Holland than MSR is there. GP des Ameriques in Montreal
was super well attended and was shown live on TV here in Canada making it the biggest race by
far here; alas it no longer exists. The WC itself is still relatively new and in my opinion
needs some work. I'm guessing PvP would rather win RvV and P-R than the overall WC. Even the
World Championship road race has lost some glamour in recent years (October?). Personally, I
think Hein has a lot to do with it. He changed things where there was little need for change.
Now he's complaining about too many professionals, etc. Why did he change that in the first
place? We need to put things back to where they were, with an amateur world championships, an
amateur Olympics and maybe a World Cup more like the old Super Prestige competition. Count
yourself lucky that you don't live here in Canada where cycling doesn't exist. (Great hockey
coverage though).
James P. Spooner

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Tom Kunich
Archived post

22 April 2003, 00:30 UTC #11

"James P Spooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Canada where cycling doesn't exist. (Great hockey coverage though).
Yeah, and don't we all like to watch a bunch of toothless goons swatting each other like WWF
Gorgeous Georges but with more blood.

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Tom Kunich
Archived post

22 April 2003, 00:30 UTC #12

To listen to a certain segment perhaps grease would be more to their liking.
"Jeff Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"benjo maso" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

By the way, the new finish on the Cauberg was not to give

Boogerd a
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
better chance to win, but to give Armstrong a better chance to

win, as the
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
organizers admitted.And what´s wrong with a finish on a climb?

It´s true
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
that none of the other worldcup races has it, so isn´t it the best

way to
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
get an identity of its own?

I thought the Cauberg had great atmosphere too - better than the

finish in
Quoted message said:
Maastricht. I guess they could put cobbles on it now :-)
cheers, Jeff

Report
Tom Kunich
Archived post

22 April 2003, 00:30 UTC #13

When I stopped over in Switzerland for a short day I was amazed at the numbers of recreational
bicyclists. I'm quite surprised that there aren't more Swiss in the peloton.
"Dieter Buerssner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"Bart" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:
Quoted message said:
Kenny this is patetic. I saw a great race. If it's not your cup, watch over your Museeuw World
Cup wins collections again. When Amstel and Zurich were still fine races...
BTW. Zürich in its modern form is a very fine race to watch. When

you bring
Quoted message said:
your bike with you, you can see the riders about 10 times, each time

at the
Quoted message said:
top of a hill (or close to it). One can ride from Forch to the

opposite
Quoted message said:
side of the course (the last hill top before the decent to the lake,

I
Quoted message said:
don't know if that hill has a name). It's only about 5 km. Hundreds

do it
Quoted message said:
on the bike, some on motorcycle and few with a car. After the last

round,
Quoted message said:
one can find a TV and watch the finish.
Regards, Dieter

Report
Tom Kunich
Archived post

22 April 2003, 00:30 UTC #14

"Erik van Leeuwen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

Maybe the big riders were scared by the climbs in the final part of

the
Quoted message said:
race, maybe the fast first part of the race (that we didn't get to

see) was
Quoted message said:
the reason.
The majority of the Peloton just got over the flu and then Van Petegem hurt everyone for two major
races in a row. This was just a bad year for Amstel Gold but even at that it was a great finish for
Vinokourov and well deserved also.
It says something that Van Petegem was almost last. And Eki was dragged through in the middle
of the pack.

Report
Benjamin Weiner
Archived post

22 April 2003, 01:00 UTC #15

Kenny said:
This has nothing to do with that. This is just how i feel about this race. I can't help it but
that's the way i experience this race. i realy get irritated looking at it. It has nothing to do
with a preference for real classic riders or so. I just don't feel the same atmosphere like
watching Milan-Sanremo, Flanders or Roubaix.
Bring it, Kenny.
RBR is at its finest when the Euro contingent starts talking smack. Especially
Common-Market-regionalist smack. And when Benjo Maso posts anything. Now we just need Tosi to come
up with a few well-placed insults to make it complete.
Ben
P.S. The parked-car complaints suggest, perhaps the next Amstel would be made even more exciting by
racing under the centerline rule.

Report
Davide Tosi
Archived post

22 April 2003, 08:30 UTC #16

Bart said:
For those with no pre-Lance memory: Criq used the be the "strongest" in any LBL, but because of
his shortcomiongs as a finisher, he was always tactically smothered by the few others remaining
at the end.
In two of the four LBL he won, Argentin was clearly the "strongest". He won the other two for
strategical and mental superiority over riders like Criq, Roche, Bauer etc...

Report
Kenny
Archived post

22 April 2003, 10:30 UTC #17

Quoted message said:
Bring it, Kenny.
RBR is at its finest when the Euro contingent starts talking smack. Especially
Common-Market-regionalist smack. And when Benjo Maso posts anything. Now we just need Tosi to come
up with a few well-placed insults to make it complete.
Ben
P.S. The parked-car complaints suggest, perhaps the next Amstel would be made even more exciting
by racing under the centerline rule.
Can you simply say what your point is?
It seems to it's forbidden to have an own opinion in rbr. Are you people saying you don't feel any
difference of experience between watching the real classics like Sanremo, Flanders, Roubaix, LBL and
watching the gold race?

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Ewoud Dronkert
Archived post

22 April 2003, 11:30 UTC #18

Kenny said:
Are you people saying you don't feel any difference of experience between watching the real
classics like Sanremo, Flanders, Roubaix, LBL and watching the gold race?
Yes. Only Paris-Roubaix with bad weather is special.

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Bart
Archived post

22 April 2003, 17:31 UTC #19

"Davide Tosi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
Quoted message said:
In two of the four LBL he won, Argentin was clearly the "strongest".
I know. The " .." was an indication of the Belgian bias in this respect.

Report
Bart
Archived post

22 April 2003, 18:00 UTC #20

"Kenny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
Quoted message said:
Can you simply say what your point is?
You need more salt, Kenny.

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