Going triple: What's this extra part?

On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:42:51 -0500, Rick Onanian <[email hidden]>

may have said:

I found it while cleaning up. What is this thing? It looks similar to an E-clip, but elongated:
members.cox.netClip.jpgOpen ↗

It's the retainer clip for an old-style master link. I've never seen that type used with a chain for
a der, so it's probably a random accidental find.

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Werehatrack said:

On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:42:51 -0500, Rick Onanian <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I found it while cleaning up. What is this thing? It looks similar to an E-clip, but elongated:
members.cox.netClip.jpgOpen ↗

It's the retainer clip for an old-style master link. I've never seen that type used with a chain
for a der, so it's probably a random accidental find.

OIC. It must have fell out of a box from a single-speed chain I had hanging around.
--
Rick Onanian

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Werehatrack
On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:42:51 -0500, Rick Onanian <[email hidden]>

may have said:

I found it while cleaning up. What is this thing? It looks similar to an E-clip, but elongated:
members.cox.netClip.jpgOpen ↗

It's the retainer clip for an old-style master link. I've never seen that type used with a chain for
a der, so it's probably a random accidental find.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something,
it's also possible that I'm busy.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

I’ve got some of these locking side plate master links on bikes with ders.
Now that you mention it, the bikes are rear der only.
I generally refrain from master links because they are weaker and more likely to have alignment issues resulting in thrown chains, although I’ve never had a master link break on a pedaled vehicle (I’ve broken many with internal combustion engine drives).
No problem with the rear der.
I could see fder issues if the protruding plate were placed on the left, but downshifting with it on the right would seem a minimal concern since any bump sends the chain to the smaller ring anyway.
I know many people use master links to make it easy to remove the chains for cleaning.

I googled and found some bicycle master links with a keyhole on each side of the link and one pin attached to each side.
Is that the implied new link from your “old” reference?
Is that typical of “modern” master links?

Looks like there would be less of an alignment issue with the longitudinally symmetric links.

Werehatrack <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Rick Onanian may have said:

I found it while cleaning up. What is this thing? It looks similar to an E-clip, but elongated:
members.cox.netClip.jpgOpen ↗

It's the retainer clip for an old-style master link. I've never seen that type used with a chain
for a der, so it's probably a random accidental find.

I agree. Either that, or your wife's lost an earring.

Jeff

On 4 Feb 2004 13:15:23 -0800, [email hidden] (Jeff Wills)

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:42:51 -0500, Rick Onanian <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I found it while cleaning up. What is this thing? It looks similar to an E-clip, but elongated:
members.cox.netClip.jpgOpen ↗

It's the retainer clip for an old-style master link. I've never seen

I agree. Either that, or your wife's lost an earring.

Hmm..I _do_ need some sort of valentine's day gift for my girlfriend (not my wife until we can
afford a place to live, preferably big enough for my bikes 😉.

Quoted message said:

Jeff

--
Rick Onanian

On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 19:55:33 GMT, meb <[email hidden]>

may have said:

Werehatrack said:

It's the retainer clip for an old-style master link. I've never seen that type used with a
chain for a der, so it's probably a random accidental find.

I’ve got some of these locking side plate master links on bikes with ders. Now that you mention it,
the bikes are rear der only. I generally refrain from master links because they are weaker and more
likely to have alignment issues resulting in thrown chains, although I’ve never had a master link
break on a pedaled vehicle (I’ve broken many with internal combustion engine drives).

In absolute tensile strength terms, I doubt that the later-style master links are weaker in any
important manner than the chains they connect. They are potentially subject to one kind of wear that
the regular links are not, though, which could be an issue if they wore out before the rest of the
chain...but that does not seem to be the case in my experience.

Quoted message said:

No problem with the rear der. I could see fder issues if the protruding plate were placed on the
left, but downshifting with it on the right would seem a minimal concern since any bump sends the
chain to the smaller ring anyway. I know many people use master links to make it easy to remove the
chains for cleaning.

If the master was installed with the clip to the left, though, it could cause problems in the back.
You might get away with it on an old 5-speed freewheel, but on a 9-speed cassette it would likely
either jam or cause a really bad skip unless the chain was running on the largest rear cog. (As for
the cleaning thing, while it's true that off-bike cleaning has its adherents, and I used to be one
of them, recent evidence would seem to support the contention that it's not necessarily advantageous
to remove a chain and clean it more thoroughly than can be done on the bike. This topic will no
doubt continue to be debated.) The other problem with clip-type masters is in the fact that the
teeth of the sprockets at one end or the other (on a two-der system) will get a chance to hit that
link often, and might pop it off. Later-style links are held in the engaged position by the tension
on the chain itself, and have no clip to lose.

There is one exception from KMC, illustrated at the bottom of their US homepage:

home.earthlink.netindex.htmlOpen ↗

In that one, the clip is one of the sideplates. I'm not terribly impressed with the idea, and I
don't plan to try it.

Quoted message said:

I googled and found some bicycle master links with a keyhole on each side of the link and one pin
attached to each side. Is that the implied new link from your “old” reference? Is that typical of
“modern” master links?

Yes, and yes, respectively. The currently most popular ones are the SRAM Powerlink and (in certain
cases) the Wippermann link. There are others as well, including those on the KMC page cited above.

Quoted message said:

Looks like there would be less of an alignment issue with the longitudinally symmetric links.

If, by "alignment", you mean left/right clip placement, yes, there's no alignment issue with them at
all because there's no clip. (Or, perhaps more correctly, the function of the clip has been designed
into the side plates of the links.)

Some current master links are "one-use" designs which are not intended to be removable, but most are
made to allow the chain to be broken and reconnected many times. The value of this often only
becomes apparent when one does not have a chain that is connected via a Powerlink-style master.

--
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Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something,
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Rick Onanian said:

I found it while cleaning up. What is this thing? It looks similar to an E-clip, but elongated:
members.cox.netClip.jpgOpen ↗

sideplate to a 1/8 inch chain master link of the 3-part type: yellowjersey.org1'8.htmlOpen ↗

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Werehatrack said:

There is one exception from KMC, illustrated at the bottom of their US homepage:

home.earthlink.netindex.htmlOpen ↗

In that one, the clip is one of the sideplates. I'm not terribly impressed with the idea, and I
don't plan to try it.

Do you mean home.earthlink.netcl373.jpgOpen ↗

The other ones from KMC look just like my Wipperman ConneX. Speaking of that, I'm not terribly
confident in it; it seems _too_ easy to disconnect, a very loose fit. The instructions include a
warning that you should check it after changing the wheel or transporting the bike...
--
Rick Onanian

On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 10:22:31 -0500, Rick Onanian <[email hidden]>

may have said:

Werehatrack said:

There is one exception from KMC, illustrated at the bottom of their US homepage:

home.earthlink.netindex.htmlOpen ↗

In that one, the clip is one of the sideplates. I'm not terribly impressed with the idea, and I
don't plan to try it.

Do you mean home.earthlink.netcl373.jpgOpen ↗

That's the one. It's probably perfectly reliable, but since there are alternatives that I like
better, I'll go with what I like. (Although I'll admit that it *should* be more truly tool-free than
most others.)

Quoted message said:

The other ones from KMC look just like my Wipperman ConneX. Speaking of that, I'm not terribly
confident in it; it seems _too_ easy to disconnect, a very loose fit. The instructions include a
warning that you should check it after changing the wheel or transporting the bike...

I've never used the Wipperman links, but I'm suprised to hear that. The SRAM Powerlinks I've got all
take a bit of persuasion to latch and unlatch; they don't seem likely to come undone by themselves.
I have a couple of the KMC links here somewhere, but I haven't tried one yet.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something,
it's also possible that I'm busy.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack said:

There is one exception from KMC, illustrated at the bottom of their US homepage:
home.earthlink.netindex.htmlOpen ↗ In that one, the clip is one of the
sideplates. I'm not terribly impressed with the idea, and I don't plan to try it.

Rick Onanian said:

Do you mean home.earthlink.netcl373.jpgOpen ↗ The other ones from KMC look
just like my Wipperman ConneX. Speaking of that, I'm not terribly confident in it; it seems _too_
easy to disconnect, a very loose fit. The instructions include a warning that you should check it
after changing the wheel or transporting the bike...

The KMC 'plate with long slot' link design has proven reliable and easy to use. ( KMC calls it
'missing link'😉 yellowjersey.orgKMC MISS.JPGOpen ↗

Santana uses that link as oem equipment on their tandems, and has for ten years. It's a variant of
the classic Union design: yellowjersey.org1'8.htmlOpen ↗ The KMC Missing Link can be hard to
unclip; it's definitely not coming open once locked.

The Wippermann link, while of the most common format
yellowjersey.orgSNAPLINK.JPGOpen ↗ seems to fit 'looser' than its brethren.
Those have been known to unclip when there's low or zero chain tension.
--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack said:

There is one exception from KMC, illustrated at the bottom of their US homepage:
home.earthlink.netindex.htmlOpen ↗ In that one, the clip is one of the
sideplates. I'm not terribly impressed with the idea, and I don't plan to try it.

Rick Onanian said:

Do you mean home.earthlink.netcl373.jpgOpen ↗ The other ones from KMC look
just like my Wipperman ConneX. Speaking of that, I'm not terribly confident in it; it seems
_too_ easy to disconnect, a very loose fit. The instructions include a warning that you should
check it after changing the wheel or transporting the bike...

The KMC 'plate with long slot' link design has proven reliable and easy to use. ( KMC calls it
'missing link'😉 yellowjersey.orgKMC MISS.JPGOpen ↗

Santana uses that link as oem equipment on their tandems, and has for ten years. It's a variant of
the classic Union design: yellowjersey.org1'8.htmlOpen ↗ The KMC Missing Link can be hard to
unclip; it's definitely not coming open once locked.

The Wippermann link, while of the most common format
yellowjersey.orgSNAPLINK.JPGOpen ↗ seems to fit 'looser' than its
brethren. Those have been known to unclip when there's low or zero chain tension.

Dear Andrew,

Nicely done master link pictures.

I noticed that you scoffed at people who insist that an open-tailed elongated circlip must have its
open end facing back toward the axle as it arrives at the top of the front chainwheel.

I think that your $20 bet that they can't tear such circlips off is fairly safe with bicycles.
Motorcycles are probably to blame for their fears.

On off-road motorcycles, there really is a right direction for the master-link circlip. It's a basic
safety precaution. In bad mud or brush or rock sections, the powered chain of a stuck motorcycle
spinning its rear wheel will happily tear such circlips off if they're installed the wrong way.

These motorcycle chain circlips are astonishingly strong, so strong that even with good needlenose
pliers, they're hard to remove if one free end of the circlip doesn't snap into the groove.

But if a rock or the side of a mudhole or a wicked piece of brush catches under the pointed little
ends while the rear tire is spinning uselessly, the engine-powered lower run of chain just pops them
off or else bends one leg of the clip right back and snaps it off.

I've picked up the pieces a few times. Once, there was no question that the unlucky rider had
installed the link backward--the chain was still intact, but the broken circlip on his master link
caught my eye when we parked the machines to walk a section.

One leg of the circlip had broken off, leaving a fish-hook shape wrapped around the grooved post.
The pressure of the plate underneath and the impressive tightness of what was left of the circlip
snapped around the post had kept it in place. An intact circlip taken from one of the rusty spares
threaded onto the gas-cap vent tube replaced it and worked just fine.

But on bicycles, as I said, your $20 seems safe. Not many bicycle riders spin their rear wheels
powerfully while stuck. Still, I'd put the link on with the open end facing back toward the axle on
the top run.

Carl Fogel