Going nowhere using kickboard

"roger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I never had a good freestyle stroke, mostly since my kicking is way
off.

Kicking contributes little to almost all front crawl swimmers, so if you
think you do not have a good stroke, it is unlikely to be a kicking issue.

Quoted message said:

Wanting to get a better stroke, I tried doing some laps with
kickboard. TO MY SHOCK, when I grab the board with arms extended and
kick, I actually stand in place and sometimes even go BACKWARDS. If I
move the board closer to my chest, I move at incredibly slow speed.
I'm too embarrased to get coaching at this point in my life (I'm 42).

This is common.

Kicking, to be propulsive, requires that the feet be able to bend so that
the angle of the top surface (not the sole) of the foot is sufficient to
move some water backwards when the foot is driven downwards. Older
swimmers, especially older males swimmers, frequently have foot-and-ankle
flexibility issues. You can improve this with a long period of flexibility
exercises (long = months), but if you did not swim a lot when your feet were
more flexible you may find significant gains difficult.

Find yourself a masters group if you are embarrased. Most have a large
proportion of members who will have similar kicking issues.

In message <[email hidden]!nnrp1.uunet.ca>, jtaylor
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"roger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I never had a good freestyle stroke, mostly since my kicking is way
off.

Kicking contributes little to almost all front crawl swimmers, so if you
think you do not have a good stroke, it is unlikely to be a kicking issue.

Quoted message said:

Wanting to get a better stroke, I tried doing some laps with
kickboard. TO MY SHOCK, when I grab the board with arms extended and
kick, I actually stand in place and sometimes even go BACKWARDS. If I
move the board closer to my chest, I move at incredibly slow speed.
I'm too embarrased to get coaching at this point in my life (I'm 42).

Quoted message said:

Kicking, to be propulsive, requires that the feet be able to bend so that
the angle of the top surface (not the sole) of the foot is sufficient to
move some water backwards when the foot is driven downwards. Older
swimmers, especially older males swimmers, frequently have foot-and-ankle
flexibility issues. You can improve this with a long period of flexibility
exercises (long = months), but if you did not swim a lot when your feet were
more flexible you may find significant gains difficult.

Find yourself a masters group if you are embarrased. Most have a large
proportion of members who will have similar kicking issues.

I was the same only a few months ago - front crawl kicking was almost a
stationary exercise. And I'm older than 42. However I persevered and can
now do several sessions of 50m (two lengths of my local pool) with about
a 30sec-1minute break to recover after each one.

I find breast stroke kicking while holding a float and trying to move
forward in a straight line is still nearly impossible. However I have
been practising lengths using as few strokes as possible and have it
down to 8 with a good push and glide from the wall.

I think this is helping me improve my stroke - would that be the case?

--
congokid
Good restaurants in London? Number one on Google
http://congokid.com

"congokid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I was the same only a few months ago - front crawl kicking was almost a
stationary exercise. And I'm older than 42. However I persevered and can
now do several sessions of 50m (two lengths of my local pool) with about
a 30sec-1minute break to recover after each one.

I find breast stroke kicking while holding a float and trying to move
forward in a straight line is still nearly impossible. However I have
been practising lengths using as few strokes as possible and have it
down to 8 with a good push and glide from the wall.

I think this is helping me improve my stroke - would that be the case?

It is not clear from the above whether you are referring to

a) Front Crawl kicking (and the Front Crawl stroke); or
b) Breaststroke kicking (and the Breaststroke);

but assuming the latter -

Breaststroke does often have a large contribution from the kick; and if you
are improving in that part, you should see a corresponding improvement in
the whole stroke, assuming you do not run into timing or co-ordination
issues.

I'm only talking about crawl. My breastsroke kick is actually pretty
good and in fact I often swim only using breaststroke.
The problem is that I sometimes don't have much time to swim and doing
crawl gets me "burning" much faster.

Now here's a radical idea. Why dont you try doing the crawl/ freestyle but
do the Breaststroke kick with your legs. My uncle put me on to that many
years ago as his legs were very heavy and he found the combination worked
well for him. Pete
"roger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm only talking about crawl. My breastsroke kick is actually pretty
good and in fact I often swim only using breaststroke.
The problem is that I sometimes don't have much time to swim and doing
crawl gets me "burning" much faster.

Roger:

When you grab the kick board with your arms extended, try to arch your
lower back and point your toes back. Hopefully, this will help to bring
the legs to the surface.

Andres

Peter Booth said:

Now here's a radical idea. Why dont you try doing the crawl/ freestyle but
do the Breaststroke kick with your legs. My uncle put me on to that many
years ago as his legs were very heavy and he found the combination worked
well for him. Pete
"roger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm only talking about crawl. My breastsroke kick is actually pretty
good and in fact I often swim only using breaststroke.
The problem is that I sometimes don't have much time to swim and doing
crawl gets me "burning" much faster.

I'm not sure which is worse, your top-posting or your suggestion. Even
if your flutter kick gets you nowhere (and I can sympathize as that
statement largely applies to me), the kicking motion is integral to the
hip torsion and body roll that are essential to a good freestyle stroke.
It's well worth putting in the effort to develop a serviceable, if not
impressive, flutter kick.

In message <[email hidden]!nnrp1.uunet.ca>, jtaylor
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"congokid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have
been practising lengths using as few strokes as possible and have it
down to 8 with a good push and glide from the wall.

I think this is helping me improve my stroke - would that be the case?

Quoted message said:

It is not clear from the above whether you are referring to

a) Front Crawl kicking (and the Front Crawl stroke); or
b) Breaststroke kicking (and the Breaststroke);

but assuming the latter -

Breaststroke does often have a large contribution from the kick; and if you
are improving in that part, you should see a corresponding improvement in
the whole stroke, assuming you do not run into timing or co-ordination
issues.

I should have clarified - it's breaststroke that I'm doing when I'm
counting strokes up and down the pool. I don't think I'm seeing
co-ordination issues, though as I use a longish glide element for each
stroke, I usually end up a bit puffed after a couple of lengths.

--
congokid
Good restaurants in London? Number one on Google
http://congokid.com

"roger" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:1122473414.724132.219640
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

Quoted message said:

I never had a good freestyle stroke, mostly since my kicking is way
off. Wanting to get a better stroke, I tried doing some laps with
kickboard. TO MY SHOCK, when I grab the board with arms extended and
kick, I actually stand in place and sometimes even go BACKWARDS. If I
move the board closer to my chest, I move at incredibly slow speed.
I'm too embarrased to get coaching at this point in my life (I'm 42).
Are there any sites that show tips and have videos of proper kicking
form?

Thanks
Roger

If you are embarrassed it is going to be hard to correct; fess up or
accept it as-is. It is important to note that a strong kick is not
necessary, and depending on the swiming you are doing might not be
advantageous.

I prefer open-water long distance swimming and have virtually no kick.
Combined with my long legs on a 6' frame you might think I would be
unable to stay horizontally level in the water.

Not so, the energy I save by not working my quads so hard is
transitioned to a much stronger pull with my arms. I can do consisdtent
24 minute miles back to back -- all while my feet barely do more than
dangle behind me.

I do have a tiny kick for counter-balance.

If you really wish to work your legs and want to go somewhere too, my
method was to use fins. At first i used boogie fins, but for the last
year I have switched to [finally] having some Zoomers. In my pool
workouts I do about 1/2 mile of kicks with the board and zoomers. Not
only do I no longer go backwards, back with the high rpm of the kicks
and low-medium resistence my cycling has benefited as well.

jtaylor said:

Find yourself a masters group if you are embarrased. Most have a large
proportion of members who will have similar kicking issues.

Good advice, with one caveat: find yourself a masters group with a
_competent coach_ who understands the difference between 40-year-old
swimmers and teenage age-group swimmers.

Sadly, my local team lost our great coach a few years ago, and she was
replaced by a new one who thinks that a good workout involves 800-1200
yards of kicking every day and will not let anyone use zoomers or
other fins. Same one who apparently thinks that 40-something swimmers
can do a 1000 for time the day after an all-out sprint workout.