Going for 6% bodyfat

Quoted message said:

Hi, I'm new here. I'll just like some feedback from you guys about my
program. I've just started a fat loss program. My current specs are:
Hgt: 5'10"
Lbs: 152
BMI: 22
Fat% 12.5 (according to the electrical fat gauge).

My final goal will be to get to 6% fat. Based on forecasts, I need to
lose 22 pounds from where I am now to drop enough body fat to get to
the 6% range.

Uh, if you dropped 22 pounds of fat (or anything close to that) at 152
pounds and 12.5% body fat you would likely soon die. If you are 12.5%
body fat then you have 19 pounds of body fat. I think you need to redo
your calculations before you meet an untimely death.

RC

[email hidden] wrote in news:1120182202.280081.256580
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Quoted message said:

Hi, I'm new here. I'll just like some feedback from you guys about my
program. I've just started a fat loss program. My current specs are:
Hgt: 5'10"
Lbs: 152
BMI: 22
Fat% 12.5 (according to the electrical fat gauge).

My final goal will be to get to 6% fat. Based on forecasts, I need to
lose 22 pounds from where I am now to drop enough body fat to get to
the 6% range. This will put me at 130 lbs at a BMI of around 19, which
is low end of the normal scale. Underweight, I believe, is like below
18 BMI or something (much like most oil lights in cars don't come on
until oil pressure is below 7 lbs).

Here's my plan:

Stick to 2,000-2,500 Kcal per day until I reach goal. Based on data
logged over time, my maintenance Kcal level hovers around 3,000 per
day. I'm a stocker and sales associate in the Frozen Foods department
at a Walmart Supercenter. My main activity during the day at work is
stocking merchandise and lifting cases of up to 50 Pounds. I am on my
feet a good bit during the day. I work 40 hours per week (fulltime).
Later, for exercise, I might add some jogging/running for 3 days/week.
Then, after reaching my body fat goal, I may lift weights 2-3
times/week to build strength and gain muscle.

I'm also taking the following supplements, which have been recommended
by my doctor. I'm taking them primarily for depression and to keep me
tuned up, but some of them happen to be beneficial for body composition
as well:

Amino Acids:
L-Taurine 3,000mg 2xday
L-Tyrosine 2,000mg morning and noon (We may up this to 4,000mg per dose
for a total of 8,000mg)
L-Carnosine 1,000mg in the morning
Acetyl L-Carnitine Plus Alpha Lipoic Acid 750mg 2xday
5-HTP 200mg at night (We may raise this to 900mg total possibly in
divided doses)

Essential Fatty Acids:
Omega 3 (from Fish Oil) 1 TBS in the morning
Gamma-Linoleic Acid (from Evening Primrose Oil) 2 Capsules in the
morning

Herbs & Hormones:
Ginkgo Biloba 120mg 2xday (morning and noon)
Kelp 1 Tablet 2xday
Astralagus 1 Capsule in the morning
DHEA (Timed Release) 25mg
Melatonin 3-9mg occasionally used for sleep

Minerals:
Liquid Colloidal Minerals 1 TBS 2xday
Chromium Picolinate (Timed Release) 1,500mcg every morning
Zinc (as OptiZinc) 90mg at night
Magnesium Glycinate 800mg 3xday (probably upping to 1,000mg 3xday)
Iron 50mg in the morning
Calcium 1,000mg in the morning

Vitamins:
Vitamin B-Complex 100 1 Capsule in the morning
Vitamin B6 200mg 3xday
Vitamin B12 3,000mcg 2xday
Vitamin D 4,000 I.U. in the morning
Niacinamide (Timed Release) 1,500mg 2xday
Choline 1,800mg 3xday
Inositol 2,000mg 3xday (titrating up to 6,000mg 3xday for 18,000mg
total)

Here's a little history on my weight. I've always had some problems
with my weight over time, but the weight issues were always due to
certain medications I took and, to some extent, depression. Basically,
everytime I've gained weight, it was always due to certain kinds of
drugs (Depakote, Zyprexa, etc.). These drugs cause appetite stimulation
and possibly metabolic changes. Therefore, the gains have been pretty
much drug-induced:

1997-1998 - I gained 80 pounds thru Middle School. I started on the
drug Depakote at the time (which I took for 8 years). I got to 220 at
5'8" by 9th grade.

1999 - I hovered between 210 and 220 Pounds.

2000 - My weight got up to 232 Pounds in 10th grade. Late that year, my
highest recorded weight was almost 235.

2001 - I probably stayed around 220-225 Pounds

Feb. 2002 - I started at about 220-something. My Depakote dose was
lowered. I started a weight loss program at this time.

June 2002 - I got down to 170 by this time (high end of normal BMI
scale).

Oct. 2002 - I went down to 148 Pounds and stayed there for about 4
months.

May 2003 - I went back up to almost 160 Pounds by this time due to
winter
depression (aka Seasonal Affective Disorder).

Summer 2003 - I got back on a fat loss program sometime in May and my
weight dropped to the low 140's.

Late 2003 - Due to breakthru depression, I was put on Lexapro (w/
Depakote) in late October. I got back up from 145 to 152 by December.
Lexapro made me somewhat more apathetic (or care-free) about
my weight, so I overate more often and didn't care about it. This
caused me to gain some.

Early 2004 - All meds were discontinued. Appetite went down somewhat
after this. I stayed at 150-152 pounds for several months.

Spring 2004 - I started back on a fat loss regimen in March. By late
April, I got to 138 pounds and into the 8% body fat range. My doctor
switched me to Zoloft due to depression episodes early in May, and it
caused some weight gain up to 145.

Later 2004 - In July, Zyprexa caused me to quickly go from 145 to 155
pounds. Then Depakote (ER version this time) caused fast weight gain up
to almost 180 Pounds by late October (averaging 10 lb/month). Depakote
was withdrawn due to this.

Winter 2005 - I slowly crept back down to 170 Pounds since the old drug
was withdrawn. New doc put me on Lamictal (plus supplements mentioned
above). Lamictal has no weight gain side effects like some of the
others and is weight-neutral.

Spring 2005 - I was 165 lbs in March and weight slowly crept down to
the low 150's.

Summer 2005 - Currently, I'm at 152 pounds/12.5%. I've just started
this fat loss program to 6% fat.

At 152 pounds and 5'10" you're a beanpole. If you gotta be 6% I guess you
gotta, but you could use more meat on your bones.

Don't wait until you've met your goal to lift weights. Do maybe 2x week,
heavy short sets. Given your stocking job you probably don't need to do
more.

Consider the occasional cheat meal or day off to reset your metabolism.

Hugh

--
Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.

Quoted message said:

Hi, I'm new here. I'll just like some feedback from you guys about my
program. I've just started a fat loss program. My current specs are:
Hgt: 5'10"
Lbs: 152
BMI: 22
Fat% 12.5 (according to the electrical fat gauge).

My final goal will be to get to 6% fat.

Why ?

Quoted message said:

Based on forecasts, I need to
lose 22 pounds from where I am now to drop enough body fat to get to
the 6% range. This will put me at 130 lbs at a BMI of around 19, which
is low end of the normal scale.

I'm a distance runner. That would be at the low end, out of the guys in my
running club (comparable to a lot of elite distance runners -- in fact several
of the top Americans are BMI>20). Unless you're a competitive endurance
athlete, there's not much advantage in being that light.

Quoted message said:

Stick to 2,000-2,500 Kcal per day until I reach goal. Based on data
logged over time, my maintenance Kcal level hovers around 3,000 per
day.

Here's a better plan: eat, exercise, and stop obsessing about your weight.
You're already light enough. Even if you were considering taking up distance
running (where being skinny helps), I'd recommend just eating ad-libitum, and
letting the exercise take care of your weight.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

I totally agree with the other posts. Dude! What's your deal? If you lose 22
pounds you will loke like Christian Bale in The Machinist. I don't think the
babes dig emaciated men. Additionally, if you got really sick you would die.
I am 6'1" and 220 pounds and exercise 5-6 days a week and feel incredible
since I started adding weights to my regimen.

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hi, I'm new here. I'll just like some feedback from you guys about my
program. I've just started a fat loss program. My current specs are:
Hgt: 5'10"
Lbs: 152
BMI: 22
Fat% 12.5 (according to the electrical fat gauge).

My final goal will be to get to 6% fat.

Why ?

Quoted message said:

Based on forecasts, I need to
lose 22 pounds from where I am now to drop enough body fat to get to
the 6% range. This will put me at 130 lbs at a BMI of around 19, which
is low end of the normal scale.

I'm a distance runner. That would be at the low end, out of the guys in my
running club (comparable to a lot of elite distance runners -- in fact
several
of the top Americans are BMI>20). Unless you're a competitive endurance
athlete, there's not much advantage in being that light.

Quoted message said:

Stick to 2,000-2,500 Kcal per day until I reach goal. Based on data
logged over time, my maintenance Kcal level hovers around 3,000 per
day.

Here's a better plan: eat, exercise, and stop obsessing about your weight.
You're already light enough. Even if you were considering taking up
distance
running (where being skinny helps), I'd recommend just eating ad-libitum,
and
letting the exercise take care of your weight.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Quoted message said:

Hi, I'm new here. I'll just like some feedback from you guys about my
program. I've just started a fat loss program. My current specs are:
Hgt: 5'10"
Lbs: 152
BMI: 22
Fat% 12.5 (according to the electrical fat gauge).

My final goal will be to get to 6% fat. Based on forecasts, I need to
lose 22 pounds from where I am now to drop enough body fat to get to
the 6% range. This will put me at 130 lbs at a BMI of around 19, which
is low end of the normal scale. Underweight, I believe, is like below
18 BMI or something (much like most oil lights in cars don't come on
until oil pressure is below 7 lbs).

Here's my plan:

Stick to 2,000-2,500 Kcal per day until I reach goal. Based on data
logged over time, my maintenance Kcal level hovers around 3,000 per
day. I'm a stocker and sales associate in the Frozen Foods department
at a Walmart Supercenter. My main activity during the day at work is
stocking merchandise and lifting cases of up to 50 Pounds. I am on my
feet a good bit during the day. I work 40 hours per week (fulltime).
Later, for exercise, I might add some jogging/running for 3 days/week.
Then, after reaching my body fat goal, I may lift weights 2-3
times/week to build strength and gain muscle.

I'm also taking the following supplements, which have been recommended
by my doctor. I'm taking them primarily for depression and to keep me
tuned up, but some of them happen to be beneficial for body composition
as well: [snip]

[1] I am very skeptical that your physician recommended that massive
supplement stack.

[2] You need to start serious weight training. In the process, you
will lose some fat. Your current plan will make you emaciated and
devoid of muscle. You will look like Death eating rice cakes.

[3] The meds you have named are well known to cause weight gain.
However, several of those meds are not prescribed for depression.
Knowing the indications for those drugs, and having read your plans,
it's pretty clear to me that your judgment is not very good right now.
Forget about your extreme fat loss program and start a reasonable
weight training program.
--

JMW
http://www.rustyiron.net

On 30 Jun 2005 18:43:22 -0700, [email hidden] wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

Quoted message said:

Hi, I'm new here. I'll just like some feedback from you guys about my
program. I've just started a fat loss program. My current specs are:
Hgt: 5'10"
Lbs: 152
BMI: 22
Fat% 12.5 (according to the electrical fat gauge).

My final goal will be to get to 6% fat. Based on forecasts, I need to
lose 22 pounds from where I am now to drop enough body fat to get to
the 6% range. This will put me at 130 lbs at a BMI of around 19, which
is low end of the normal scale. Underweight, I believe, is like below
18 BMI or something (much like most oil lights in cars don't come on
until oil pressure is below 7 lbs).

When you see Karen Carpenter, ask her if she thinks she would have
switched to country music.

JMW said:

However, several of those meds are not prescribed for depression.

Every medication he listed is consistent with a diagnosis of bipolar
disorder (aka manic depressive illness) for which they are regularly
prescribed.

RC

Why not stop all that ridiculous [censored], and just run 6 miles a day,
and the weight will be gone in months.

Uh, what kind of music did Karen Carpenter play and what was it that
happened to her? I heard of someone mentioning something about her to
me, but I'm not sure why.

[email hidden] wrote in message
<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Why not stop all that ridiculous [censored], and just run 6 miles a day,
and the weight will be gone in months.

For once you are correct. Eat the right food and run forest run and let the
fat fade...........

Quoted message said:

JMW said:

However, several of those meds are not prescribed for depression.

Every medication he listed is consistent with a diagnosis of bipolar
disorder (aka manic depressive illness) for which they are regularly
prescribed.

It was not my intent to state that openly. It appears you are without
compunction in that regard.
--

JMW
http://www.rustyiron.net

Quoted message said:

Uh, what kind of music did Karen Carpenter play and what was it that
happened to her?

Easy listening/soft rock. She was a member of the group The
Carpenters. I knew Karen as she grew up in my home town.

Quoted message said:

I heard of someone mentioning something about her to
me, but I'm not sure why.

She died of an eating disorder. IOW she starved/binged/vomited and
died of an electrolyte imbalance and cardiac arrest. She thought she
was obese when she looked like a concentration camp victim. Sad story.

RC

JMW said:

Quoted message said:

JMW said:

However, several of those meds are not prescribed for depression.

Every medication he listed is consistent with a diagnosis of bipolar
disorder (aka manic depressive illness) for which they are regularly
prescribed.

It was not my intent to state that openly. It appears you are without
compunction in that regard.

No shame in having bipolar disorder. We have come a long way from the
days when we thought that psychiatric disorders were caused by demons.
Most intelligent people know that psychiatric disorders are due to
biochemical abnormalities. The poster listed a number of psychiatric
medications so I am not sure what your problem is. He obviously was
not trying to conceal that he had a psychiatric problem.

It was you who addressed the fact that his medications were not all
for depression which is not the case since bipolar disorder IS a
depressive illness.

RC

Quoted message said:

JMW said:

Quoted message said:

JMW <[email hidden]> wrote:

>However, several of those meds are not prescribed for depression.

Every medication he listed is consistent with a diagnosis of bipolar
disorder (aka manic depressive illness) for which they are regularly
prescribed.

It was not my intent to state that openly. It appears you are without
compunction in that regard.

No shame in having bipolar disorder. We have come a long way from the
days when we thought that psychiatric disorders were caused by demons.
Most intelligent people know that psychiatric disorders are due to
biochemical abnormalities. The poster listed a number of psychiatric
medications so I am not sure what your problem is. He obviously was
not trying to conceal that he had a psychiatric problem.

How someone feels about his/her illness is personal, and the
perception of stigma is very individualized. Have you read his mind?

Quoted message said:

It was you who addressed the fact that his medications were not all
for depression which is not the case since bipolar disorder IS a
depressive illness.

Bipolar affective disorder and unipolar depression are very different,
perhaps even at the basic level of gene expression, not just in the
DSM-IV. Although some antidepressants, mostly SSRIs, are prescribed
for bipolar depression (he mentioned sertraline), there are extensive
differences in the overall medications, and divalproex, lamotrigine,
and olanzapine are NOT prescribed for unipolar depression.
--

JMW
http://www.rustyiron.net

JMW said:

[email hidden] wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

[1] I am very skeptical that your physician recommended that massive
supplement stack.

My doctor practices alternative (integrative) medicine. He 'did'
recommend pretty much all of these things to me. He has a list of
everything I'm taking, so he knows that I take all of this stuff. He's
OK'ed everything on there. One of the first recommendations he gave me
were amino acids. He ordered an Amino Acids Urine test to perform, and
I came back deficient in Taurine, Tyrosine, GABA, and some others
according to test results. For my depression, he told me that high
doses are required. All of the other vitamins/minerals recommended that
I take are augmentors. Pretty much every supplement I take I was found
to be deficient in it (based on tests and questionnaires).

Quoted message said:

[2] You need to start serious weight training. In the process, you
will lose some fat. Your current plan will make you emaciated and
devoid of muscle. You will look like Death eating rice cakes.

I thought that I kept reading here that people gain fat along with
muscle when they bulk up (which they have to lose by doing a cutting
phase). You can't lose fat and gain muscle at the same time it seems
like.

I've seen many people with fat% below 10, and they DO NOT look anything
like "Death" (as you describe). The minimum amount of fat required to
sustain life is 3%. This is called "essential fat".

As far as weight training goes, I plan to do this when I get to (or
close to) goal. I don't have a gym membership right now, so I need to
get another one. Mine expired several months ago.

Quoted message said:

[3] The meds you have named are well known to cause weight gain.

You're right, they are. Some people report 20 pound/month weight gains
on them. Zyprexa's the worst offender in weight gain. Zyprexa has even
been reported to cause diabetes! The company of the drug has been
hammered with big lawsuits over this before.

Quoted message said:

However, several of those meds are not prescribed for depression.

Actually, they are prescribed many times (particularly in addition to
antidepressants) as adjuncts for depression.

Quoted message said:

Knowing the indications for those drugs, and having read your plans,
it's pretty clear to me that your judgment is not very good right now.

What indications are you talking about? These drugs are used for many
different things like seizures, migraines, anxiety, pain, and even
sleep, etc.

Quoted message said:

Forget about your extreme fat loss program and start a reasonable
weight training program.
--

My program won't have an extreme approach at all it seems like. I'm
counting on it to take 4 months to get to goal. That's a daily deficit
of only less than 700 Kcal, which is well below the 2 lb/week rate
limit. Calories will stay above 2,000 a day, too, so there's no worries
in that department. As I stated above, I plan to start weight training
as I near goal and when I get another gym membership and/or obtain some
barbells.

Quoted message said:

JMW
http://www.rustyiron.net

Just running 6 miles/day won't cause fat loss if you don't create an
energy deficit. You can't expect to lose fat by just exercising if you
are going to end up eating more to make up for the energy expended.
Guessing food intake (when trying to lose fat) won't get you very far...

Hugh Beyer said:

[email hidden] wrote in news:1120182202.280081.256580
[Snipped]

At 152 pounds and 5'10" you're a beanpole. If you gotta be 6% I guess you
gotta, but you could use more meat on your bones.

When I was in the 8% fat range that other last year, I seemed to feel
better overall from what I recall.

Quoted message said:

Don't wait until you've met your goal to lift weights. Do maybe 2x week,
heavy short sets. Given your stocking job you probably don't need to do
more.

Quoted message said:

Consider the occasional cheat meal or day off to reset your metabolism.

When you says reset metabolism, what does that generally mean? What
effect are cheat days supposed to have on you physiologically?

I do plan on having occasional days off for events, parties, holidays,
etc.

Quoted message said:

Hugh

--
Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.

JMW said:

Quoted message said:

JMW said:

[email hidden] wrote:

> JMW <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>>However, several of those meds are not prescribed for depression.
>
>Every medication he listed is consistent with a diagnosis of bipolar
>disorder (aka manic depressive illness) for which they are regularly
>prescribed.

It was not my intent to state that openly. It appears you are without
compunction in that regard.

No shame in having bipolar disorder. We have come a long way from the
days when we thought that psychiatric disorders were caused by demons.
Most intelligent people know that psychiatric disorders are due to
biochemical abnormalities. The poster listed a number of psychiatric
medications so I am not sure what your problem is. He obviously was
not trying to conceal that he had a psychiatric problem.

How someone feels about his/her illness is personal, and the
perception of stigma is very individualized. Have you read his mind?

You are correct. I cannot read his mind.

Do you think that the fact that he listed many psychiatric meds and
said he was being treatment for depression might suggest that he did
not have a stigma??

I was not going to say anything about his illness until you
incorrectly stated that all his meds were not prescribed for
depression.

The problem is not that he has a stigma. The problem is that you
cannot admit that your original comment was incorrect and you are
trying to deflect attention away from your error.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It was you who addressed the fact that his medications were not all
for depression which is not the case since bipolar disorder IS a
depressive illness.

Bipolar affective disorder and unipolar depression are very different,
perhaps even at the basic level of gene expression, not just in the
DSM-IV.

I never said any different. I merely corrected your original incorrect
statement that all his meds were not used to treat depression.

Quoted message said:

Although some antidepressants, mostly SSRIs, are prescribed
for bipolar depression (he mentioned sertraline), there are extensive
differences in the overall medications, and divalproex, lamotrigine,
and olanzapine are NOT prescribed for unipolar depression.

You are quite correct. Who said anything about unipolar depression??
He said he suffered from depression. You said all his meds were not
for depression. I corrected you since there is more than one type of
depression.

And instead of acknowledging that you were wrong you first tried to
impugn my character and now you are trying to show how you are
knowledgeable about unipolar and bipolar depression which is
irrelevant to your original statement.

At the time you posted the original comment to which I replied, you
implied that you did not know that the meds were used to treat the
depressive illness bipolar disorder, when you said that all his meds
were not for depression.

And on top of that, if you are so concerned about stigma why on earth
did you even bring up that all his meds were not for depression?? What
did that have to do with his question??

RC

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Knowing the indications for those drugs, and having read your plans,
it's pretty clear to me that your judgment is not very good right now.

What indications are you talking about? These drugs are used for many
different things like seizures, migraines, anxiety, pain, and even
sleep, etc.

I missed that comment by JW. It is interesting that he implied that I
had no compunction when I said that the meds were consistent with
bipolar and here JW is suggesting that he is incapable of making a
decision simply because of the indications of these drugs.

JW directly stigmatizes the guy by suggesting he is psychotic and
incapable of rational decision just because some of the meds are used
to treat psychosis. And he gives me [censored] for mentioning bipolar
disorder. Pot, kettle, black??

JW clearly is showing great compunction by telling this guy that his
judgement is not good now simply for being on certain medications and
what he speculated might be his problem. Yeah, right.

RC