Go Tubeless?

gravelrAsh said:

I'm going to order a 2005 Orange 5 Pro. The question is, do I get my LBS to
fit tubeless for me. The guy in the shop says they're a pain to repair in
the winter with cold fingers etc. Is this the case or do I just need a
decent set of tyre levers to get them off. The other thing is, should I not
be able to get them to fit tubeless rims from the off, I've been told you
can get a kit consisting of a special rim tape to seal the rim and make it
tubeless. Is this the case, and is it successful?

Apologies if this has been asked before, which i'm sure it has!

Ash

I have tubeless, and while I have no problem changing them (you just
have to push the bead all the way to the center, all the way around), I
don't see any real advantage either.
The promise of running lower pressures is a bunch of BS because anytime
I try it I get tire farts if I land sideways. It breaks the bead and
lets all the air out.
They need stans or they lose pressure.

But they are soooo cool. At least that's what I heard...

YMMV

-Bruce

"gravelrAsh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm going to order a 2005 Orange 5 Pro. The question is, do I get my LBS
to
fit tubeless for me. The guy in the shop says they're a pain to repair in
the winter with cold fingers etc. Is this the case or do I just need a
decent set of tyre levers to get them off. The other thing is, should I
not
be able to get them to fit tubeless rims from the off, I've been told you
can get a kit consisting of a special rim tape to seal the rim and make it
tubeless. Is this the case, and is it successful?

Apologies if this has been asked before, which i'm sure it has!

Ash

I think you have two questions

What are the pro's and con's of tubless tires and how does the Stan's
tubeless kit work...

First, my experience with tubless tires is very positve. I usually run
anywhere from 37 to 40 psi in my tubeless tires where I had to run 45 to 50
with my tube tires to avoid pinch flats. I should note I'm using Mavic XL's
with Kenda Kharisma tires front and back with Stan's (not the Stan's
tubeless kit only the latex sealant). Another poster talked about burping
(air escaping from seal between the bead and the rim) I have had this happen
once when I did a wheelie drop off a 3 - 4 foot drop and landed hard on my
front wheel, some air excaped. Becase I can run the lower pressure (I weigh
around 170 lbs, if you weigh less you might be able to run less pressure)
the tires hook up better in all conditions, don't notice a higher drag
coeffient, ect, I would not go back to tube tires! Sometimes in the winter
when I'm training and don't care as much and don't want to have to spend the
money for the tubeless tires I will run tubes.

Second, how does the tires with the Stan's kit (regular tires with Stans
tubeless kit) fare. I would recommend going with the tubeless wheels
regardless but if you want to go with the tube rims here is the experience
some of my friends have had. FYI, the tubeless tires have a thickher
sidewall the prevents them from rolling with the lower pressure where the
normal tires do not and the tubeless tires mate with the rim of a tubeless
rim better than the normal tires and rims do. These two features of the
normal rims and tires cause more burping and rolling of the tires in
corners. I had one friend using this set up actually have a tire come off in
a corner.

My suggestion is buy the tubeless wheels then you have the option of either
running tubes or not (I'm assuming you know that you can run normal tires
and tubes on tubeless rims). I will say that the tubeless wheels with the
Stan's sealant is a very good set up. If you go to their website (I'll let
you look it up if you are interested) you can see a guy shoving an awl into
the wheel. I tried this on my own set of worn out tires and it DOES work. I
will caution that the sealant need to be changed every 3-4 months because it
becomes congealed in the tire and does not have the viscosity to seal
puntures.

Have fun with your new bike...

-p

"gravelrAsh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm going to order a 2005 Orange 5 Pro. The question is, do I get my LBS

to

Quoted message said:

fit tubeless for me. The guy in the shop says they're a pain to repair in
the winter with cold fingers etc. Is this the case or do I just need a
decent set of tyre levers to get them off. The other thing is, should I

not

Quoted message said:

be able to get them to fit tubeless rims from the off, I've been told you
can get a kit consisting of a special rim tape to seal the rim and make it
tubeless. Is this the case, and is it successful?

Apologies if this has been asked before, which i'm sure it has!

Ash

www.yestubes.com

TJ
www.gvii.net/hundtoft

gravelrAsh said...

Quoted message said:

I'm going to order a 2005 Orange 5 Pro. The question is, do I get my LBS to
fit tubeless for me. The guy in the shop says they're a pain to repair in
the winter with cold fingers etc. Is this the case or do I just need a
decent set of tyre levers to get them off. The other thing is, should I not
be able to get them to fit tubeless rims from the off, I've been told you
can get a kit consisting of a special rim tape to seal the rim and make it
tubeless. Is this the case, and is it successful?

Apologies if this has been asked before, which i'm sure it has!

Ash

Removing tubeless tires isn't difficult if you make sure the bead is in
the center channel opposite where you are pulling it off. Tire levers
may damage the bead where it needs an airtight seal. Don't use them on
tubeless tires. A bigger obstacle than cold fingers would be finding the
hole that must be patched, and getting the bead to seat so that the tire
can be inflated. Since you don't have the benefit of escaping air to
help you, finding the exact spot you need to patch a tubeless tire can
be a challenge. Then when you do get it patched, you need to get the
bead seated. I have never done this without the aid of an air
compressor, but then I haven't made a career of trying either. I'll try
for a few minutes with my (cheap) floor pump then just walk across the
street to the gas station. For emergency repairs, I carry a tube and
patch kit. The patch kit is to repair the tube if I have problems with
it. I have given up hope of repairing a tubeless tire anywhere but at
home. CO2 inflators may work, but I haven't tried them yet.

The one very real benefit of tubeless in my experience is that when they
do puncture the air leaks out slowly, so if you notice it before the
bead breaks loose, you can usually nurse it back to civilization without
repairing it. Tubeless tires are less likely to pinch flat, but it is
still possible for the rim to bite through the sidewall just like pinch
flatting a tube. A tubeless setup doesn't save any weight and it is
possible to get a tube setup substantially lighter.

The Stan's No Tubes rim strip and sealant system is a wacky after market
idea not endorsed by any tire or rim maker that I have ever heard of.
Some people evidently love it, others have horror stories. Most agree
that it is very messy.

Quoted message said:

The Stan's No Tubes rim strip and sealant system is a wacky after market
idea not endorsed by any tire or rim maker that I have ever heard of.
Some people evidently love it, others have horror stories. Most agree
that it is very messy.

A pinch flat on the trail is no walk-in-the-park either.... unless you don't
have a spare tube.

Since converting my 517s to the Stans last May, I have not had a single flat
and I only need to add air about once very two weeks. Most of the people I
ride with have switched over also.....none have complained yet.

The only drawback is if you like switching tires often, then I guess it
could get messy. Otherwise I love it and will never go back to tubes.

scottg

Bruce Edge said:

I have tubeless, and while I have no problem changing them (you just
have to push the bead all the way to the center, all the way around), I
don't see any real advantage either.
The promise of running lower pressures is a bunch of BS because anytime
I try it I get tire farts if I land sideways. It breaks the bead and
lets all the air out.
They need stans or they lose pressure.

But they are soooo cool. At least that's what I heard...

at my weight (150) and riding style (conservative) i don't need to worry
much about pinch flats. i used to get them way back, and switched that
old (rigid) bike to latex tubes. no more then, and none on my new bike,
maybe because it has huge 2.25" tires.

anyway as you say, other people's mileage (and flats) may vary.

fwiw to any vendors listening though, i stepped *down* from the next
higher bike in one of your lineups, because while i wanted some of that
stuff, i didn't actually want tubeless (or disks).

scott g said:

Quoted message said:

The Stan's No Tubes rim strip and sealant system is a wacky after
market idea not endorsed by any tire or rim maker that I have ever
heard of. Some people evidently love it, others have horror stories.
Most agree that it is very messy.

A pinch flat on the trail is no walk-in-the-park either.... unless
you don't have a spare tube.

Since converting my 517s to the Stans last May, I have not had a
single flat and I only need to add air about once very two weeks.
Most of the people I ride with have switched over also.....none have
complained yet.

I've run tubeless on proper Mavic tubeless rims for over 12 months now. I
don't use the rim strip on normal rims.
I've found that Hutchison tyres on Mavic rims are the easiest to mount and
inflate. I can do that with a handpump everytime. Mounting panaracers on
mavic rims is more difficult and I need a track pump to inflate them. Have
never had to use compressed air.
I checked my tyres yesterday and they have held the same pressure for four
weeks now without adding any more air.

I haven't had a puncture that has needed repairing since I put Stan's
sealant in them 10 months ago. It's essential that you put the Stan's
sealant into the tyre to prevent punctures. You simply can't repair
tubeless tyres with patches like you can with normal tubes.

Quoted message said:

The only drawback is if you like switching tires often, then I guess
it could get messy.

True. Not a job that I'd ever do indoors on the carpet. The sealant does
make a mess but it washes off easily. I change tyres in the garage, rinsing
the tyres in a bucket of water after removing them and then letting them
drip-dry. I change them seasonally twice a year.

Quoted message said:

Otherwise I love it and will never go back to
tubes.

Not having to repair punctures all the time is GREAT! I haven't had a
puncture in 10 months and I ride a number of trails with 5 foot high gorse
bushes either side of them! Tubeless are worth it for this alone. I used
to repair several punctures a week and would have a 1dz spare tubes floating
around at any one time - some spare, some waiting for repair.

I wouldn't go back to tubes either.
--
Westie
(Replace 'invalid' with 'yahoo' when replying.)

And how many people ride in winter or even out of the so
called season. Only the strong ride all year long and I'm not one
of the weak. So if you want tubeless don't listen to anyone but
yourself.

I MTB 2004

Westie said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The Stan's No Tubes rim strip and sealant system is a wacky after

Not having to repair punctures all the time is GREAT! I haven't had a
puncture in 10 months and I ride a number of trails with 5 foot high gorse
bushes either side of them! Tubeless are worth it for this alone. I used

Is this any better than regular tires with Slime tire sealant in the
tubes? I pulled over a dozen goatheads out of my tires on a single ride
this year, and Slimed tubes sealed all the punctures.

I think you are praising the properties of tire sealant, not tubeless tires.

justen at cable one dot net