GMTV: Lee v Mayne

[Patrick Herring]

"wafflycat" <waffles*A*T*v21net*D*O*T*co*D*O*T*uk> wrote:
....
| A suggestion... to be ignored or otherwise
|
| Kevin is probably a nice guy - I don't know him, so can't say one way or
| another. But may I respectfully suggest that when going up against one or
| more women, the "caring" gender... who are pro-compulsion as obviously they
| *care about the children*, that perhaps the CTC should be putting up a
| woman...that way they can counter the possible impression (to the less
| informed) of the CTC being blokes who don't care about the children half as
| much as those who can & do come across as 'concerned nurses and mothers' ???

I couldn't agree more, though I didn't see the original broadcast. If
your answers need a load of numbers, from a bloke it comes over as
"let's calculate the odds", from a female it looks like "these are the
facts". Dunno why.

"12 year-old died in my arms, wasn't wearing a helmet" wiped the floor
with everything else in that exchange. Kevin didn't even clearly state
his main point i.e. even if they saved lives you'd save many more by not
discouraging utility cycling. Why wasn't "but if they save lives" not
immediately challenged? OK it was 0620 and I really doubt I'd do any
better <g>.

| Kevin needs to be able to speak directly, in soundbites, and look directly
| at the questioner and not be looking down as this comes across as slightly
| shifty, which I am sure he doesn't intend to do.

We denigrate spin doctoring but it definitely works. Look, I'm not going
to confuse my point and have people wonder whether I possibly meant
something else by waffling (sorry!) on and on after having made it, not
even slightly, well a bit slightly though it depends on what you mean by
slightly of course...

| Plus, when Lee spreads the
| lies & falsehoods, she should be publicly brought to book. Attack is the
| best form of defence and all that.

The real audience is not the questioner but the watchers. An answer
including "but this isn't a matter of opinion, you can check it with
real physical experiments, or get the data at cyclehelmets.org, make up
your own mind" speaks directly to the interested and bypasses the
obfustications of AL et al.



--
Patrick Herring, http://www.anweald.co.uk/ph

 

[Buck]

On 07/05/2005 17:28:26 Patrick Herring <[email protected]> wrote:


> The real audience is not the questioner but the watchers. An answer
> including "but this isn't a matter of opinion, you can check it with real
> physical experiments, or get the data at cyclehelmets.org, make up your
> own mind" speaks directly to the interested and bypasses the
> obfustications of AL et al.

Unfortunately that wasn't said so it is round one to BHIT.

--

Buck

I would rather be out on my Catrike

http://www.catrike.co.uk

 

[David Nutter]

On 2005-07-04, Just zis Guy, you know? <[email protected]> wrote:
> Transcript:

*snip*

Such a pity; I was very much looking forward to a public hatchet-job on
BHIT. Perhaps highlighting BHIT's history of lies and distortion might be a
more productive angle?

Regards,

-david

 

[Graeme]

Patrick Herring <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> "12 year-old died in my arms, wasn't wearing a helmet" wiped the floor
> with everything else in that exchange.

I was very concerned about this statement. If this kid was in hospital and
AL was acting in her capacity as a nurse, at what point in the treatment of
a head injury is holding the patient in your arms considered good practice?
I used to work in a nurses' training college and I can't remember any of
the lecturers ever saying "Now, if someone presents with a major head
trauma, give them a cuddle."

Was she just going for (rather pathetic) dramatic effect, or was this what
really happened?

Graeme

 

[dave]

Graeme wrote:
> Patrick Herring <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>
>>"12 year-old died in my arms, wasn't wearing a helmet" wiped the floor
>>with everything else in that exchange.
>
>
> I was very concerned about this statement. If this kid was in hospital and
> AL was acting in her capacity as a nurse, at what point in the treatment of
> a head injury is holding the patient in your arms considered good practice?
> I used to work in a nurses' training college and I can't remember any of
> the lecturers ever saying "Now, if someone presents with a major head
> trauma, give them a cuddle."
>
> Was she just going for (rather pathetic) dramatic effect, or was this what
> really happened?


I would not say pathetic dramatic effect myself. If someone died
holding my hand I might say in shorthand to someone else.. died in my
arms. Or I might never mention it (as indeed I havnt). Not correct..
but not dishonest sort of do you see what I mean?

Personaly I believe pushy helmets are almost useless. So I believe it
probably made no difference. But all are entitled to believe what they
want. Tho the discussion in the media is rarely fair

I remember a mates motorcyle accident being reported as ¨luckily his
helmet saved him from furthur injury¨ His reply that his helmet never
touched the road and didnt save him from a damm thing was never
published. This type of dishonesty really does **** me

 

[Graeme]

dave <[email protected]> wrote in news:42cb51fe$1_2
@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com:

> Not correct..
> but not dishonest sort of do you see what I mean?

Yes, sort of like electoral promises, not a lie, but not the whole truth.
However, it all depends on context, she's clearly using it as emotional
backup for her argument whereas if you were to use "died in my arms" as
shorthand for "died when I was holding his hand" (although it ain't that
much shorter) then it would more likely be in a personal conversation, not
one which is used as part of a discussion of a major issue. (if that makes
sense)

Graeme

 

[dave]

Graeme wrote:
> dave <[email protected]> wrote in news:42cb51fe$1_2
> @news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com:
>
>
>>Not correct..
>>but not dishonest sort of do you see what I mean?
>
>
> Yes, sort of like electoral promises, not a lie, but not the whole truth.
> However, it all depends on context, she's clearly using it as emotional
> backup for her argument whereas if you were to use "died in my arms" as
> shorthand for "died when I was holding his hand" (although it ain't that
> much shorter)

then it would more likely be in a personal conversation, not
> one which is used as part of a discussion of a major issue. (if that makes
> sense)
>
> Graeme


Yeah fair enough. I have a tendancy to er,.. not do subtle.

 

[Graeme]

dave <[email protected]> wrote in news:42cb6d81$1_2
@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com:

> Yeah fair enough. I have a tendancy to er,.. not do subtle.

I'm vaguely aware of the concept of "subtle". Maybe it's linked to us both
being in Australia and the general lack of subtlety over here. (yes, I know
this is a "UK" group, but it's too hard to give up)

Graeme

 

[Tony Raven]

Graeme wrote:
> Patrick Herring <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>
>>"12 year-old died in my arms, wasn't wearing a helmet" wiped the floor
>>with everything else in that exchange.
>
>
> I was very concerned about this statement. If this kid was in hospital and
> AL was acting in her capacity as a nurse, at what point in the treatment of
> a head injury is holding the patient in your arms considered good practice?
> I used to work in a nurses' training college and I can't remember any of
> the lecturers ever saying "Now, if someone presents with a major head
> trauma, give them a cuddle."
>
> Was she just going for (rather pathetic) dramatic effect, or was this what
> really happened?
>

No she's had good media training. She personalised it, created an image
the majority of viewers will connect with and wiped the floor. How many
GMTV viewers will come away swayed towards helmets by that and how many
will come away wondering what a nurse is doing cuddling a dying head
injured boy. Save the logic for the Lancet, this is the media we are
talking about.

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

 

[dave]

Graeme wrote:
> dave <[email protected]> wrote in news:42cb6d81$1_2
> @news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com:
>
>
>>Yeah fair enough. I have a tendancy to er,.. not do subtle.
>
>
> I'm vaguely aware of the concept of "subtle". Maybe it's linked to us both
> being in Australia and the general lack of subtlety over here. (yes, I know
> this is a "UK" group, but it's too hard to give up)
>
> Graeme


Yeah I understand subtle. I just choose not to do it.
And you are right. Other nationalities might do the smile and the knife
in the back. We Aussies shoot the bastards in the face.

I except all politicians lawyers and reporters from that statement of
course. They are the same everywhere.

 

[Buck]

On 07/06/2005 07:14:59 Tony Raven <[email protected]> wrote:

> Graeme wrote:

> I was very concerned about this statement. If this kid was in hospital
>> and AL was acting in her capacity as a nurse, at what point in the
>> treatment of a head injury is holding the patient in your arms considered
>> good practice? I used to work in a nurses' training college and I can't
>> remember any of the lecturers ever saying "Now, if someone presents with
>> a major head trauma, give them a cuddle."

>> Was she just going for (rather pathetic) dramatic effect, or was this
>> what really happened?

> No she's had good media training. She personalised it, created an image
> the majority of viewers will connect with and wiped the floor. How many
> GMTV viewers will come away swayed towards helmets by that and how many
> will come away wondering what a nurse is doing cuddling a dying head
> injured boy. Save the logic for the Lancet, this is the media we are
> talking about.

The rights or the wrongs are irrelevant, what is important is that
during a brief trial by media, the cycling fraternity was, as usual,
under represented, if the CTC want to take this battle on, then they
need to get their act together, because right now as it stands you all
better start picking what colour lid you want.
--

Buck

I would rather be out on my Catrike

http://www.catrike.co.uk

 

[Helen Deborah Vecht]

"dkahn400" <[email protected]>typed


> Peter Clinch wrote:

> > The truth comes over loud and clear: Angela Lee may be well
> > meaning but is basically innumerate and can't be trusted to
> > present figures with any degree of accuracy (c.f. the sequence
> > of numbers 37, 42, 48, 54, 33, 32, 36, 27, 25, 22, 18 being
> > characterised as each one being over 50).

> I think it might be closer to the mark to suggest she is sometimes
> economical with the numeracy.

I might be tempted to make a 'nurses and numeracy' comment...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email protected]
Edgware.

 

[Helen Deborah Vecht]

Graeme <[email protected]>typed


> Patrick Herring <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:

> > "12 year-old died in my arms, wasn't wearing a helmet" wiped the floor
> > with everything else in that exchange.

> I was very concerned about this statement. If this kid was in hospital and
> AL was acting in her capacity as a nurse, at what point in the treatment of
> a head injury is holding the patient in your arms considered good
> practice?
> I used to work in a nurses' training college and I can't remember any of
> the lecturers ever saying "Now, if someone presents with a major head
> trauma, give them a cuddle."

> Was she just going for (rather pathetic) dramatic effect, or was this what
> really happened?

> Graeme

I think that she might have been able to do very little once the child
came out of a brain scan and the situation seemed hopeless.

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email protected]
Edgware.

 

[Patrick Herring]

dave <[email protected]> wrote:
|
| > Patrick Herring <[email protected]> wrote in
| > news:[email protected]:
| >
| >>"12 year-old died in my arms, wasn't wearing a helmet" wiped the floor
| >>with everything else in that exchange.
....
| Personaly I believe pushy helmets are almost useless. So I believe it
| probably made no difference. But all are entitled to believe what they
| want.

I don't think they are entitled. This is a branch of engineering. There
may be ranges of values within which certain effects are seen, rather
than exact numbers, but it's not a matter of opinion in the end.

--
Patrick Herring, http://www.anweald.co.uk/ph

 

[Simon Proven]

Buck wrote:

>>GMTV: I think you meant 12 mph, so if you are hit at 30mph it takes 12 off
>>which leaves an impact of 18mph.
>
>
>>AL: That's right
>
>
> So what hapenned to the truth here?
>

GMTV happened.