Gloves, Belts, Wraps - anyone else give them up?

Deb said:

Years ago I had a cute blue Valeo Belt and a pair of Glovz(TM) and a
set of lifting hooks...slowly I had revelations that they were all
silly and threw them all away around 1999. Now, the only ephemera I
bring with me are my Manta Ray and a set of spin-lock collars. I

feel

Quoted message said:

no need for any of it now and actually enjoy my callouses. My back
feels no difference and I'm actually lifting heavier than I was back

in

Quoted message said:

the early days.

Could that be the result of TRAINING ??

I use gloves and straps when doing shrugs...

Deb wrote:

<snip>

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Anyone else have a similar revelation? I see so many huge guys in my
gym with the belt on at all times, even for arm exercises, and I say
"why?" I just don't get it. Even back when I had the belt, I only

put

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it on for those last two sets of squats....and guys with gloves?

That

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one really baffles me.

<snip>

I use gloves mainly for deadlifting, but I also happen to use them for
benching and powercleaning. How do people generally think this affects
grip strength? Is the loss of gains in grip strength significant? Or
is it wrong to think grip strength is affected by gloves?

I have small hands, so maybe that's why gloves seem to help me so much
with grip. Of course, there's the sweat issue when deadlifting and
using heavy dumbbells, but I could always use chalk for that. But
gloves seem more convenient than chalk.

Also, I really have no need for incredibly thick calluses, as I'm an
office worker. It would probably seem odd to people who would shake my
hand to feel an incredibly callused hand. For one, I am not very big,
at only 130-135 lbs, and at just a tiny bit under 5'7". However, I do
workout with 275 in the deadlift though, and I workout with 135 in the
powerclean. I know those numbers aren't great compared to most in
here, but the 275 certainly would be more likely to slip on me without
gloves, especially near the end of sets.

gman99 wrote:>

Quoted message said:

Could that be the result of TRAINING ??

I use gloves and straps when doing shrugs...

Well, I guess I feel that I NEVER needed those things, even back in the
early days. I just thought I did. I recently came back from a 3 year
layoff and though weak, didn't start out with any aids....

I can see the need for it during shrugs or deadlifts because my grip
does have some trouble on those and I can probably lift way more with
the targeted muscles than my hands will allow....but I'd rather do some
Farmers Walks to strengthen my grip than start using gloves and wraps,
I suppose.

I'm sure there comes some limit where you can't possibly strengthen
your grip enough to handle the weights you build up to in those
exercises; however, I'm just a female who probably won't ever get
strong enough for that to happen.

[email hidden] wrote:>

Quoted message said:

Also, I really have no need for incredibly thick calluses, as I'm an
office worker. It would probably seem odd to people who would shake

my

Quoted message said:

hand to feel an incredibly callused hand. For one, I am not very

big,

Quoted message said:

at only 130-135 lbs, and at just a tiny bit under 5'7". However, I

do

Quoted message said:

workout with 275 in the deadlift though, and I workout with 135 in

the

Quoted message said:

powerclean. I know those numbers aren't great compared to most in
here, but the 275 certainly would be more likely to slip on me

without

Quoted message said:

gloves, especially near the end of sets.

I don't know about everyone, but I have observed that my callouses stay
very tiny and hard...they don't seem to get thicker with time, as from
time to time the top layer peels off. My boyfriend handles extremely
heavy weights in the deadlift and does pullups and chins with extra
weight on him, and his callouses are the same way - very tiny and
concentrated....they also peel off from time to time. His hands look
like skeletor, even longer and skinnier than mine (ectomorph frame) and
I don't think anyone would know those callouses were there, even
shaking his hand.

DZ said:

I positively need gloves to do muscle-ups -

http://statgen.ncsu.edu/zaykin/up/mup.avi

It's actually easier to do them bare hand, but if you're doing them a
few days a week, the calluses might come off and the hands start
bleeding.

DZ

Good point. That did sort of happen to me once.

DZ said:

Deb said:

and guys with gloves? That one really baffles me.

I positively need gloves to do muscle-ups -

http://statgen.ncsu.edu/zaykin/up/mup.avi

It's actually easier to do them bare hand, but if you're doing them a
few days a week, the calluses might come off and the hands start
bleeding.

Although I've given up most of that stuff, I still use wrist hooks for
weighted chins. Otherwise, my grip will give away before I've
exhausted my back and biceps. It does save callouses from tearing,
too.
--

JMW
http://www.rustyiron.net

Deb said:

gman99 wrote:>

Quoted message said:

Could that be the result of TRAINING ??

I use gloves and straps when doing shrugs...

Well, I guess I feel that I NEVER needed those things, even back in

the

Quoted message said:

early days. I just thought I did. I recently came back from a 3

year

Quoted message said:

layoff and though weak, didn't start out with any aids....

I can see the need for it during shrugs or deadlifts because my grip
does have some trouble on those and I can probably lift way more with
the targeted muscles than my hands will allow....but I'd rather do

some

Quoted message said:

Farmers Walks to strengthen my grip than start using gloves and

wraps,

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I suppose.

I'm sure there comes some limit where you can't possibly strengthen
your grip enough to handle the weights you build up to in those
exercises; however, I'm just a female who probably won't ever get
strong enough for that to happen.

I used to use straps for all pulling movements...pulldowns,
rows..etc...etc but not anymore...don't find they help. They do help on
the shrugs...

Deb said:

[email hidden] wrote:>

Quoted message said:

Also, I really have no need for incredibly thick calluses, as I'm

an

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

office worker. It would probably seem odd to people who would

shake

Quoted message said:

my

Quoted message said:

hand to feel an incredibly callused hand. For one, I am not very

big,

Quoted message said:

at only 130-135 lbs, and at just a tiny bit under 5'7". However, I

do

Quoted message said:

workout with 275 in the deadlift though, and I workout with 135 in

the

Quoted message said:

powerclean. I know those numbers aren't great compared to most in
here, but the 275 certainly would be more likely to slip on me

without

Quoted message said:

gloves, especially near the end of sets.

I don't know about everyone, but I have observed that my callouses

stay

Quoted message said:

very tiny and hard...they don't seem to get thicker with time, as

from

Quoted message said:

time to time the top layer peels off. My boyfriend handles extremely
heavy weights in the deadlift and does pullups and chins with extra
weight on him, and his callouses are the same way - very tiny and
concentrated....they also peel off from time to time. His hands look
like skeletor, even longer and skinnier than mine (ectomorph frame)

and

Quoted message said:

I don't think anyone would know those callouses were there, even
shaking his hand.

I know Skeletor didn't use gloves, so I guess you have a point. :P

DZ said:

Deb said:

and guys with gloves? That one really baffles me.

I positively need gloves to do muscle-ups -

http://statgen.ncsu.edu/zaykin/up/mup.avi

That's still a very impressive exercise!

Quoted message said:

It's actually easier to do them bare hand, but if you're doing them a
few days a week, the calluses might come off and the hands start
bleeding.

We used to get those 'tears' in the hand using the high bar for
gymnastics. The accepted cure was a cotton wool pad soaked in surgical
spirit, and applied straight to the raw wound.

It was agony, but we had to get right back in the gym and grin and
bear it!!

HAGW!!

TFIF!!

JMW said:

DZ said:

Deb said:

and guys with gloves? That one really baffles me.

I positively need gloves to do muscle-ups -

http://statgen.ncsu.edu/zaykin/up/mup.avi

It's actually easier to do them bare hand, but if you're doing them a
few days a week, the calluses might come off and the hands start
bleeding.

Although I've given up most of that stuff, I still use wrist hooks for
weighted chins. Otherwise, my grip will give away before I've
exhausted my back and biceps. It does save callouses from tearing,
too.

I have never heard or seen that before; it's not normal in pulling
exercises, particularly pull-ups, for the grip to give out when using
only bodyweight (+).

It's also difficult to see how you get callous problems, as there is
no movement of the hands around the bar, which could cause such tears.

The addition of what should only sensibly be a relatively small % of
BW for the additional weight increment, should not cause those kind of
problems. Perhaps you should be maxing out on BW alone in order to
improve your grip.

It may be that you are using 'too much weight' and doing low reps, or
it could be that you may also be somewhat overweight, which will
exacerbate the problem.

I'm doing three sets of 10 with an additional 15 kgs at the moment,
and the last thing that feels uncomfortable is my grip, even on the
last couple on the final set.

Now in deadlifts I can see the problem, but not in pull-ups.

Have a great weekend John - you know I will!! ;o)

TFIF!!

DZ said:

Charles said:

DZ said:

Deb <[email hidden]> wrote:
> and guys with gloves? That one really baffles me.

I positively need gloves to do muscle-ups -

http://statgen.ncsu.edu/zaykin/up/mup.avi

That's still a very impressive exercise!

Quoted message said:

It's actually easier to do them bare hand, but if you're doing them a
few days a week, the calluses might come off and the hands start
bleeding.

We used to get those 'tears' in the hand using the high bar for
gymnastics. The accepted cure was a cotton wool pad soaked in surgical
spirit, and applied straight to the raw wound.

It was agony, but we had to get right back in the gym and grin and
bear it!!

That's like sharing needles!

In which way, the pain or spreading infection?!! ;o)

HAGW!!

TFIF!

Deb said:

Years ago I had a cute blue Valeo Belt and a pair of Glovz(TM) and a
set of lifting hooks...slowly I had revelations that they were all
silly and threw them all away around 1999. Now, the only ephemera I
bring with me are my Manta Ray and a set of spin-lock collars. I

feel

Quoted message said:

no need for any of it now and actually enjoy my callouses. My back
feels no difference and I'm actually lifting heavier than I was back

in

Quoted message said:

the early days. Maybe I could use a little chalk because I have
noticed my hands get sweaty when I'm trying to do chins and some of

the

Quoted message said:

heavier weights.

Anyone else have a similar revelation?

No-no-no workouts.
No gloves, no belt, no wraps.
Chalk is your friend.

Charles said:

JMW said:

DZ said:

Deb <[email hidden]> wrote:
> and guys with gloves? That one really baffles me.

I positively need gloves to do muscle-ups -

http://statgen.ncsu.edu/zaykin/up/mup.avi

It's actually easier to do them bare hand, but if you're doing them a
few days a week, the calluses might come off and the hands start
bleeding.

Although I've given up most of that stuff, I still use wrist hooks for
weighted chins. Otherwise, my grip will give away before I've
exhausted my back and biceps. It does save callouses from tearing,
too.

I have never heard or seen that before; it's not normal in pulling
exercises, particularly pull-ups, for the grip to give out when using
only bodyweight (+).

It would appear that you are unfamiliar with the practice doing chins
with subtantial extra weight.

Quoted message said:

The addition of what should only sensibly be a relatively small % of
BW for the additional weight increment, should not cause those kind of
problems. Perhaps you should be maxing out on BW alone in order to
improve your grip.

For those capable of performing a dozen or more chins, the training
paradigm goes from strength to endurance. Those of use who train for
strength add weight for less repetitions.

Quoted message said:

It may be that you are using 'too much weight' and doing low reps, or
it could be that you may also be somewhat overweight, which will
exacerbate the problem.

Or it could be that some of us train for strength and are familiar
with the studies which establish heavier weight and lower repetitions
are more effective at accomplishing that goal.

Quoted message said:

I'm doing three sets of 10 with an additional 15 kgs at the moment,
and the last thing that feels uncomfortable is my grip, even on the
last couple on the final set.

I'm sure everyone would like to see video of that. Being a person of
such extensive means, I assume that you could purchase a digital video
camera merely upon a whim, and surely your multiple web sites contain
enough space for you to post a video file. We anxiously await the
opportunity to view you performing the regimen described above.

Quoted message said:

Now in deadlifts I can see the problem, but not in pull-ups.

Your hands twist less in deadlifts than in chins. Why, then, are
gloves or hooks appropriate for deadlifts and not for chins?
--

JMW
http://www.rustyiron.net

"DZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Charles said:

DZ said:

Deb <[email hidden]> wrote:
> and guys with gloves? That one really baffles me.

I positively need gloves to do muscle-ups -

http://statgen.ncsu.edu/zaykin/up/mup.avi

That's still a very impressive exercise!

Quoted message said:

It's actually easier to do them bare hand, but if you're doing them a
few days a week, the calluses might come off and the hands start
bleeding.

We used to get those 'tears' in the hand using the high bar for
gymnastics. The accepted cure was a cotton wool pad soaked in surgical
spirit, and applied straight to the raw wound.

It was agony, but we had to get right back in the gym and grin and
bear it!!

That's like sharing needles!

i never use gloves

i use a belt occasionally

i have used wraps once in 2 years.

fwiw, i use straps for ALL pulls (like my OLer bground would lead me to do)

whit

Charles wrote:>

Quoted message said:

I have never heard or seen that before; it's not normal in pulling
exercises, particularly pull-ups, for the grip to give out when using
only bodyweight (+).

I'm female, 155 pounds, I grab the close grip chin mechanism (standing
on a stool), I pull myself up, I can lower and lift myself one more
time before both my muscles AND my grip give out. My hands do not MOVE
on that bar. When I get down, my callouses are the most swollen they
ever get on any other exercise. Sometimes they develop instant
blisters underneath. So, it does happen.

JMW said:

DZ said:

Deb said:

and guys with gloves? That one really baffles me.

I positively need gloves to do muscle-ups -

http://statgen.ncsu.edu/zaykin/up/mup.avi

It's actually easier to do them bare hand, but if you're doing them a
few days a week, the calluses might come off and the hands start
bleeding.

Although I've given up most of that stuff, I still use wrist hooks for
weighted chins. Otherwise, my grip will give away before I've
exhausted my back and biceps. It does save callouses from tearing,
too.

Damn, dude. How much extra weight you using? And are you a major
fatass now?

-----------
Proton Soup

"Thanks for noticing that I didn't actually say anything." - Mike Lane

Proton Soup said:

JMW said:

DZ said:

Deb <[email hidden]> wrote:
> and guys with gloves? That one really baffles me.

I positively need gloves to do muscle-ups -

http://statgen.ncsu.edu/zaykin/up/mup.avi

It's actually easier to do them bare hand, but if you're
doing them a few days a week, the calluses might come off
and the hands start bleeding.

Although I've given up most of that stuff, I still use
wrist hooks for weighted chins. Otherwise, my grip will
give away before I've exhausted my back and biceps. It
does save callouses from tearing, too.

Damn, dude. How much extra weight you using? And are you
a major fatass now?

http://www.rustyiron.net/pu2000.htm

JMW said:

Proton Soup said:

JMW said:

DZ <[email hidden]> wrote:
>Deb <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> and guys with gloves? That one really baffles me.
>
>I positively need gloves to do muscle-ups -
>
>http://statgen.ncsu.edu/zaykin/up/mup.avi
>
>It's actually easier to do them bare hand, but if you're
>doing them a few days a week, the calluses might come off
>and the hands start bleeding.

Although I've given up most of that stuff, I still use
wrist hooks for weighted chins. Otherwise, my grip will
give away before I've exhausted my back and biceps. It
does save callouses from tearing, too.

Damn, dude. How much extra weight you using? And are you
a major fatass now?

http://www.rustyiron.net/pu2000.htm

Not bad, but I think you could adapt your hands to that weight pretty
easily. The biggest problem I get from doing weighted chins is just
the pressure, cramping, loss of blood type stuff. I've never had a
callous come off, crack or start bleeding. Usually, I'll do sets of
five reps up to about 50lbs. Highest weight was 113lb at a body
weight of about 175lb.

-----------
Proton Soup

"Thanks for noticing that I didn't actually say anything." - Mike Lane

Proton Soup said:

JMW said:

Proton Soup said:

JMW <[email hidden]> wrote:
>DZ <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>Deb <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>> and guys with gloves? That one really baffles me.
>>
>>I positively need gloves to do muscle-ups -
>>
>>http://statgen.ncsu.edu/zaykin/up/mup.avi
>>
>>It's actually easier to do them bare hand, but if you're
>>doing them a few days a week, the calluses might come off
>>and the hands start bleeding.
>
>Although I've given up most of that stuff, I still use
>wrist hooks for weighted chins. Otherwise, my grip will
>give away before I've exhausted my back and biceps. It
>does save callouses from tearing, too.

Damn, dude. How much extra weight you using? And are you
a major fatass now?

http://www.rustyiron.net/pu2000.htm

Not bad, but I think you could adapt your hands to that
weight pretty easily. The biggest problem I get from
doing weighted chins is just the pressure, cramping, loss
of blood type stuff.

Yes, that, too. And that just reinforces my point. Chins
are an exercise for back and biceps. They are not a grip
exercise. Why should I fatigue a minor muscle group and
detract from maximal training of the muscle groups that I'm
targeting? Wrist hooks allow me to squeeze out the most
reps without worrying about the grip. And keep in mind
that chins are not a competition lift, so there's no need
to practice them without gear.