Glossary

"Roger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The message <[email hidden]>
from "-- Paul --" <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Please clarify though, a Hewitt for instance, over 610m with a 30m drop.
When you say drop, I assume you're talking about a near vertical drop
as some
point on the hill/mountain. An example would be perhaps Pen y Fan, with
a
real steep side dropping away from the summit??

No. The drop referred to is the minimum difference in elevation between
the summit in question and the lowest point you absolutely couldn't
avoid dropping down to anywhere between it and any higher peak.

Quoted message said:

I guess these names, Nuttall and so on, are peoples surnames?
Why didn't they just go with 600 m instead of 610 m and why is it that
these
categories of mountains are named after them, what did they ever do??

John and Anne Nuttall who wrote the guides to their hills in England and
Wales all of which they have researched and ascended.

Hewitt is just an acronym (hills England Wales Ireland two thousand or
some such). As was SWEAT that preceded it (summits Wales England above
two or some such). Sweats and presumably the Hewitts that followed were
compiled by Alan Dawson along with his Marilyn list. No one has yet
ascended all Marilyns and quite possibly no one ever will. The same can
not be said for any of the other lists.

The 610m line is a tacit acknowledgement that all these lists started
out as Imperial ideas and the 610m, 150m, 30m, etc. are loosely based on
2000 feet, 500 feet, 100 feet, etc.

--
Roger Chapman
Nearest Marilyn still to be visited - Great Orme.
89 miles as the crow flies,
considerably more as the walker drives.

Excellent, this is all really good stuff and making good sense now.

Watch this space however for more questions!

-- Paul -- said:

Does anyone no where there is a glossary of hill / mountain terms please?

I'm looking for answers to these questions and more :-

I want to know what a marilyn is ? (As in .....and head to Leith Hill (a
"Marilyn" at 294m)....)
What is the difference between hiking, trekking and walking?
Define the word fell, as in fell walking?

Thanks
Paul

Other than hill/mountain classification taking drop and height into
account it is all subjective e.g. there are some boring Munro's but
relatively fewer boring Marilyns. However due to the Nuttall drop
classification there are a number of boring Nuttalls as well.

Hiking, trekking and walking are all subjective terms as well.

I'd classify a 'quick bag' as less than 10km and less than 500m
ascent.
A 'bimble' is more than 10km but less than 20km and more than 500m
ascent but less than 1000m ascent.
A good walk is more than 20km and more than 1000m ascent.

However others will have their own subjective definitions....

Does it matter, no, just get out on the hills!

David.
--
http://www.fenrunfellwall.co.uk

In message <[email hidden]>, -- Paul --
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

-- Paul -- said:

I want to know what a marilyn is ?

Marilyn - summit with a drop (prominence or re-ascent) of at least 150m
Hewitt - summit over 610m with a drop of 30m
Nuttall - summit over 610m with a drop of 15m
Dewey - summit over 500m, less than 610m, with a drop of 30m

Many more types in Scotland.

Quoted message said:

What is the difference between hiking, trekking and walking?

You forgot backpacking and tramping!

All various forms of walking.

Quoted message said:

Define the word fell, as in fell walking?

mountain, hill.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

Excellent you've anticipated my next question by providing info on Hewitts,
Nuttals and Deweys.

Please clarify though, a Hewitt for instance, over 610m with a 30m drop.
When you say drop, I assume you're talking about a near vetical drop as some
point on the hill/mountain. An example would be perhaps Pen y Fan, with a
real steep side dropping away from the summit??

No. It can be a long gentle slope. In this context drop is the
difference in height between the summit and the highest possible lowest
point (a col, or pass, or even a point on a plain) on a route connecting
the summit with a higher summit.

Quoted message said:

I guess these names, Nuttall and so on, are peoples surnames?
Why didn't they just go with 600 m instead of 610 m and why is it that these
categories of mountains are named after them, what did they ever do??

610m is a near as you can get to 2000ft in meters, without going into
fractional meters.

Quoted message said:

I've lots of questions me!!

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

214Fells said:

-- Paul -- said:

Does anyone no where there is a glossary of hill / mountain terms please?

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for answers to these questions and more :-

Quoted message said:

I want to know what a marilyn is ? (As in .....and head to Leith Hill (a
"Marilyn" at 294m)....)
What is the difference between hiking, trekking and walking?
Define the word fell, as in fell walking?

Other than hill/mountain classification taking drop and height into
account it is all subjective e.g. there are some boring Munro's but
relatively fewer boring Marilyns. However due to the Nuttall drop
classification there are a number of boring Nuttalls as well.

Hiking, trekking and walking are all subjective terms as well.

I'd classify a 'quick bag' as less than 10km and less than 500m
ascent.
A 'bimble' is more than 10km but less than 20km and more than 500m
ascent but less than 1000m ascent.
A good walk is more than 20km and more than 1000m ascent.

However others will have their own subjective definitions....

Does it matter, no, just get out on the hills!

Ah, I'm glad someone brought up one of my own favourite expressions -
a bimble.

A "trek" is sometimes a walk that's just gone on too bloody long, or
in particularly bad weather.

A "ramble" can only be undertaken wearing red socks, a woolly hat, and
a map-case hung around the neck and flapping in the wind.

HTH.

--
"He's dim, Jed"

In message <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

-- Paul -- said:

....also, what's the difference between a hill and a mountain ?

No, no, no, no, no! I'm not going to answer that! I must have answered that
a million times!

Search the archives...

Paul

There's no L in mountain !
--
Bill Grey

John Laird said:

On Mar 28, 9:10 pm, "214Fells" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A 'bimble' is more than 10km but less than 20km and more than 500m
ascent but less than 1000m ascent.

Quoted message said:

Ah, I'm glad someone brought up one of my own favourite expressions -
a bimble.

I like it and use it a lot as a term, but have a very different
"definition". To me it can be any easy walk, or might ironically be
used for a particularly big one. Not entirely dissimilar to a "dander"
(a wonderful word I picked up from an Irish friend), so I might take a
dander or a bimble round a park or a lochan or the like.

Quoted message said:

A "ramble" can only be undertaken wearing red socks, a woolly hat, and
a map-case hung around the neck and flapping in the wind.

Stout footwear and a quarterstaff good too! ;-)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Bill Grey said:

Quoted message said:

-- Paul -- said:

....also, what's the difference between a hill and a mountain ?

Quoted message said:

There's no L in mountain !
--
Bill Grey

....and mountain doesn't rhyme with Bill.
--
Rudi Winter, Aberystwyth, Wales

In message <[email hidden]>, Rudi Winter
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Bill Grey said:

Quoted message said:

-- Paul -- wrote:
> ....also, what's the difference between a hill and a mountain ?

Quoted message said:

There's no L in mountain !
--
Bill Grey

...and mountain doesn't rhyme with Bill.

?
:-)
--
Bill Grey

Bill Grey said:

<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Bill Grey said:

There's no L in mountain !

...and mountain doesn't rhyme with Bill.

?
:-)

Thanks for adding the missing smiley, Bill!

Far from truth, as your *M*RT activity shows...
--
Rudi Winter, Aberystwyth, Wales

-- Paul -- said:

I guess these names, Nuttall and so on, are peoples surnames?

Nuttalls and Deweys are, but Hewitts and Marilyns aren't. Some older lists
were produced by Bridge and Marsh, but Bridges and Marshes are very silly
sounding names for mountains!

Quoted message said:

Why didn't they just go with 600 m instead of 610 m

Most list makers are sadly stuck in the past and haven't yet realised that
the UK has gone metric. 610m is the metric equivalent of 2000ft, and 30m is
the metric equivalent of 100ft, so the Hewitts list is really a list of all
summits over 2000ft with a drop of 100ft. Likewise the Nuttalls are also a
list of summits over 2000ft with a 50ft drop, and Marilyns have a drop of
500ft. So in spite of the metric numbers, they're all *imperial* lists!

There are few truly metric lists around, so I compiled one of my own (for
Wales). It's basically a modification of the Hewitts list, but rounded to
sensible metric numbers, namely 600m with a 25m drop (25m divides neatly
into 100m, 30m doesn't). I've classified each summit as either A, B or C,
depending on the drop (100m, 50m or 25m).
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/wm/metric.html

I've also done a 500m list with a 50m drop but I haven't put that on my site
yet.

Quoted message said:

and why is it
that these categories of mountains are named after them, what did
they ever do??

They compiled the lists! It's just a convention. I don't really want people
to call my list the Saunders' though, because no doubt they'd get the plural
wrong and call it the Saunders's (ugh!).

Quoted message said:

I've lots of questions me!!

Well you've come to the right place.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

Phil Cook said:

I call the stuff I do in Snowdonia and Scotland Mountain Walking. in
the Lake District and The Dales and Peak District it turns into Fell
Walking. You could say you were Fan Walking in The Beacons but it
might easily be misunderstood.

Although I say that I'm "going up the mountains", I actually think of the
Beacons as mere hill-walking, since there's rarely ever anything scrambly
involved.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

214Fells said:

I'd classify a 'quick bag' as less than 10km and less than 500m
ascent.
A 'bimble' is more than 10km but less than 20km and more than 500m
ascent but less than 1000m ascent.
A good walk is more than 20km and more than 1000m ascent.

However others will have their own subjective definitions....

Indeed. Glad to see that you're using metric!

You know about my "effort rating" don't you? Where you add the distance in
kilometres to the ascent divided by 100 to give a "kilometre equivalent", a
simple way of ranking a walk by one number rather than two.

Using this system your "quick bag" would be up to 15ke, your "bimble" would
be up to 30ke, and your "good walk" more than 30ke.

My ranking is as follows:
Very Easy Up to 10ke
Easy 10-20ke
Moderate 20-30ke
Hard 30-40ke
Very Hard 40-50ke

Hardest walk I've ever done was a 49ke. I guess some people would rank them
differently and go higher than 50ke.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

The message <[email hidden]>
from "Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

You know about my "effort rating" don't you? Where you add the distance in
kilometres to the ascent divided by 100 to give a "kilometre equivalent", a
simple way of ranking a walk by one number rather than two.

Quoted message said:

Using this system your "quick bag" would be up to 15ke, your "bimble" would
be up to 30ke, and your "good walk" more than 30ke.

Quoted message said:

My ranking is as follows:
Very Easy Up to 10ke
Easy 10-20ke
Moderate 20-30ke
Hard 30-40ke
Very Hard 40-50ke

Quoted message said:

Hardest walk I've ever done was a 49ke. I guess some people would rank them
differently and go higher than 50ke.

Hardest walk I have ever done was 45 miles and 10000 feet of ascent.
That is 72 on your scale on distance alone and over 100 in total
although 56 miles and 5000 feet of ascent seems to come out slightly
higher.

--
Roger Chapman
Nearest Marilyn still to be visited - Great Orme.
89 miles as the crow flies,
considerably more as the walker drives.

Paul Saunders said:

You know about my "effort rating" don't you? Where you add the distance in
kilometres to the ascent divided by 100 to give a "kilometre equivalent", a
simple way of ranking a walk by one number rather than two.

It's basically the Naismith idea, except that you don't automatically
assume that effort is proportional to time taken.

For me, I've worked out that effort is pretty much proportional to time
taken except for very short or very flat walks. And ascent knackers me
a lot more than distance, so I come up with
time/h = distance/4km + ascent/400m
which includes breaks I need to be comfortable, although I may just lie
in the sun and enjoy the view if it's warm enough, which obviously doesn't
come into the formula. Anyway, I use that time as my effort rating.
Yes, slow coach etc, I know. Who cares?
--
Rudi Winter, Aberystwyth, Wales