Global warming, anyone?

Quoted message said:

Apparently Rev. Blair has been pontificating on the issue of global
warming. I wonder if green transport will fihure in his plans?

Guy

You mean having Two Jags relegated to One Matiz??

Cheers, helen s

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"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Apparently Rev. Blair has been pontificating on the issue of global
warming. I wonder if green transport will fihure in his plans?

We can hope, but I don't think the political will is really there in the
guvmint or the man in the street.

Mayer Hillman spoke animatedly and passionately to us at Camden Cycling
Campaign last night.

He came with a few of his books at knockdown prices, which were all
sold. I suspect he was, in part, preaching to the choir. I hope he
doesn't object to the package I sent him today; a CD ina reused Jiffy
Bag sealed with two aged[1] LCC labels...

[1] LCC phone number given as 071...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

Quoted message said:

Apparently Rev. Blair has been pontificating on the issue of global
warming. I wonder if green transport will fihure in his plans?

Guy

You mean having Two Jags relegated to One Matiz??

It seems like a load of hot air so far...

I do have this fantasy of the UK leading the way in developing
environmentally benign(er) energy sources and lifestyles. It's certainly
going to become a massive oportunity for economic and technological
growth as well as the obvious threat it poses, and the first countries
to jump on the bandwagon will have a good head-start. Think of what else
people could do with their lives if they spent 20 minutes cycling to
work rather than pouring 20% of their net income into paying for a
rusting box and _burning_ our limited oil reserves like it's going out
of fashion.

Scaremongering about storms might not be the best way to go about it,
though. But perhaps the end justifies the means.

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is
by treading on the toes of giants.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/

In article <[email hidden]>,

James Annan said:

It seems like a load of hot air so far...

Yeah. But the meeja have started to notice. It'll only be a matter
of time before someone dares to go public with a sense of proportion.
The "don't touch the N-word" idiocy seems finally to be being challenged.

Quoted message said:

I do have this fantasy of the UK leading the way in developing
environmentally benign(er) energy sources and lifestyles.

So did I. Until they gave in to a bunch of thugs with a successful
meeja campaign and killed off John Major's fuel price escalator.

Quoted message said:

It's certainly
going to become a massive oportunity for economic and technological
growth as well as the obvious threat it poses, and the first countries
to jump on the bandwagon will have a good head-start.

Exactly.

Quoted message said:

Think of what else
people could do with their lives if they spent 20 minutes cycling to
work rather than pouring 20% of their net income into paying for a
rusting box and _burning_ our limited oil reserves like it's going out
of fashion.

Those of us in the 'knowledge economy' shouldn't need to travel at all
for regular work.

Quoted message said:

Scaremongering about storms might not be the best way to go about it,
though. But perhaps the end justifies the means.

It also risks a backlash. So long as it's only called "global warming"
as opposed to "poisoning the atmosphere so that within the forseeable
future it will no longer support warm-blooded life", it's open to
replies like "why is that a bad thing"? And if unproven arguments
like particular weather events are linked to it, there's a legitimate
pooh-pooh response.

Suddenly I see an unlikely possibility of voting for the monster
raving tory party again. Why? Because they seem in danger of
grasping the notion that the N-word is a lesser evil than the
current lot's meaningless waffle, or the so-called greens locally
very attractive but non-scaleable tinkering on the edges.

--
Nick Kew

James Annan said:

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Apparently Rev. Blair has been pontificating on the issue of global
warming. I wonder if green transport will fihure in his plans?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You mean having Two Jags relegated to One Matiz??

Quoted message said:

It seems like a load of hot air so far...

That's one of the problems. If it's as bad as the Rev Blair says,
we'll need to cut down on the farting as well. Not only is the methane
an extremely nasty greenhouse gas, far worse than CO2, but the
hydrogen sulphide from folk farting in art galleries is one of the
major factors in aging pictures.

OTOH, a catalytic converter might do the job, and be especially
sellable to menfolk, who according to my wife are the main offenders.

"Is that a catalytic converter, or are you just pleased to see me, Big
Boy?"

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

James Annan <[email hidden]> wrote:

: to jump on the bandwagon will have a good head-start. Think of what else
: people could do with their lives if they spent 20 minutes cycling to
: work rather than pouring 20% of their net income into paying for a
: rusting box and _burning_ our limited oil reserves like it's going out
: of fashion.

They'd be paying >20% of their net income into paying for a house
near their work instead.

That's the problem for several people I know here. In order to buy
a house big enough to have kids in (we're talking three bed here not
a mansion) on Uni wages they've had to move to a long way out of
York.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Nick Kew <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Yeah. But the meeja have started to notice. It'll only be a matter
: of time before someone dares to go public with a sense of proportion.
: The "don't touch the N-word" idiocy seems finally to be being challenged.

I'm still not happy with nuclear power. Not only is their no sensible
thing to do with the waste but it's only economic because it's very
heavily subsidised.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Arthur Clune said:

Nick Kew <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Yeah. But the meeja have started to notice. It'll only be a matter
: of time before someone dares to go public with a sense of proportion.
: The "don't touch the N-word" idiocy seems finally to be being challenged.

I'm still not happy with nuclear power. Not only is their no sensible
thing to do with the waste but it's only economic because it's very
heavily subsidised.

It doesn't appear that there's anything sensible (from an environmental point
of view) to do with the waste from conventional power stations either,
unless you consider pumping it into the atmosphere sensible.

Regards,

-david

Just zis Guy said:

Apparently Rev. Blair has been pontificating on the issue of global
warming.

I'd have been more impressed if the speech
was made at an energy industry conference,
not a environmental charity one.

Blair has a *nasty* habit of changing his
tone (no pun intended) depending on
his audience.

And then doing what he damn well pleases
when he get back to no. 10.

BugBear

in message <[email hidden]>, Arthur Clune

(') said:

James Annan <[email hidden]> wrote:

: to jump on the bandwagon will have a good head-start. Think of what
: else people could do with their lives if they spent 20 minutes
: cycling to work rather than pouring 20% of their net income into
: paying for a rusting box and _burning_ our limited oil reserves like
: it's going out of fashion.

They'd be paying >20% of their net income into paying for a house
near their work instead.

For haven's sake man, I don't know whether you've heard of it but there
this new thing - it's only been around about thirty years - called the
Internet, which allows office workers and design workers to do 90% of
their job wherever they happen to be. That's, say, at least 60% of the
whole workforce. Get together for a team meeting once a week of once a
fortnight as appropriate, and work from home the rest. Works for me.
Commuting is just _so_ last century.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; When your hammer is C++, everything begins to look like a thumb.

Arthur Clune said:

James Annan <[email hidden]> wrote:

: to jump on the bandwagon will have a good head-start. Think of what else
: people could do with their lives if they spent 20 minutes cycling to
: work rather than pouring 20% of their net income into paying for a
: rusting box and _burning_ our limited oil reserves like it's going out
: of fashion.

They'd be paying >20% of their net income into paying for a house
near their work instead.

That's the problem for several people I know here. In order to buy
a house big enough to have kids in (we're talking three bed here not
a mansion) on Uni wages they've had to move to a long way out of
York.

Arthur

Try it here, it's even worse!

James Annan said:

I do have this fantasy of the UK leading the way in developing
environmentally benign(er) energy sources and lifestyles. It's
certainly going to become a massive oportunity for economic and
technological growth

I entirely agree. I seem to recall that we used to have some of the best
alternative energy boffins on the planet a few years back, I hope they
haven't all buggered off to Sweden in the mean time.

The other problem is that nobody can pronoounce Machynllech...

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington
University

Arthur Clune said:

They'd be paying >20% of their net income into paying for a house
near their work instead.

Introducing a 110% tax band for income from domestic property rental would
sort that out ;-)

Quoted message said:

That's the problem for several people I know here. In order to buy
a house big enough to have kids in (we're talking three bed here not
a mansion) on Uni wages they've had to move to a long way out of
York.

I couldn't afford the house I live i if I was a first-time buyer again
today, and my income is massively increased since ten years ago when I
bought it. The domestic property market is completely mad, and for some
reaosn it seems that house price inflation is seen as a good thing.
Probably because the agenda is being set by a load of people who are about
to move out to the country...

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington
University

Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> wrote:

: For haven's sake man, I don't know whether you've heard of it but there
: this new thing - it's only been around about thirty years - called the
: Internet, which allows office workers and design workers to do 90% of
: their job wherever they happen to be.

Sadly, what I see it being used for is to allow cross-planet collaborations.

So Joe Bloggs gets to commute in in his box 5 days and week and then fly
over to Europe/US/China as well. Everyone's a winner.

On another note, I think more people like working in the office than
is normally thought as well. Many people might like the idea of one day
a week at home, but more than that and I think lots of people find it
isolating.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Chris Malcolm said:

OTOH, a catalytic converter might do the job, and be especially
sellable to menfolk, who according to my wife are the main offenders.

I believe this is actually the case.

On teh other hand, women emit about 50% more radioactivity than men,
and everyone knows that combustible bio-fuels are preferable to
nuclear.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

in message <[email hidden]>, Nick Kew

(') said:

Suddenly I see an unlikely possibility of voting for the monster
raving tory party again. Why? Because they seem in danger of
grasping the notion that the N-word is a lesser evil than the
current lot's meaningless waffle, or the so-called greens locally
very attractive but non-scaleable tinkering on the edges.

And what are you going to do with the waste? What are you going to do
with the americium and plutonium in every river outfall in the northern
Irish Sea? What are you going to do for the people dying of cancers or
living with non-functioning thyroids?

I heard a politician say yesterday that we wouldn't tolerate blackouts,
therefore we must build nuclear. Over my dead body. I will tolerate
blackouts. I will tolerate power rationing. I will tolerate high power
prices. But I won't tolerate the situation where 50% of women living
within half a mile of my bay in my village now have inoperative
thyroids being spread to the rest of the country. I won't tolerate our
cancer rates being spread to the rest of the country. We should have
learned this lesson by now: nuclear power produces huge quantities of
grotesquely toxic materials which we have simply no way of rendering
safe, or of containing safely. And once they're loose in the
environment (which, for those of us who live on the shores of the Irish
Sea they already are) there is no way at all of cleaning them up.

You say that burning carbon is polluting, and so it is, and so we should
burn less. But nuclear isn't even beginning to be a solution to that
problem. It's been said - I don't know with what truth - that if you
take into account the carbon emissions involved in the construction,
fuel preparation, demolition and decontamination, then kilowatt hour
for kilowatt hour a nuclear power station emits as much carbon as a gas
fired station. But that, too, is beside the point. Over time, excess
carbon emissions will raise the temperature of the planet so that
people can't live on large parts of it. Over time, nuclear power
stations will generate radioactive and heavy metal toxins which mean
people - and mammals - and birds and fish and pretty much anything else
- can't live on the planet at all.

No large scale power system is without major disadvantaged. The only
answer - the *only* answer - is to use less, and to use it wisely. That
means, much better insulation of our homes. That means, not replacing
things which can still be repaired. That means, not buying in the first
place things with limited service life. That means, much, much higher
prices for energy in all forms. And we should all of us - if we want a
planet on which our grandchildren (or, in my case my great nieces and
nephews) can thrive - _welcome_ higher energy prices.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; ... exposing the violence incoherent in the system...

"njf>badger<" <"njf>badger <"@soton.ac.uk> wrote:

: Try it here, it's even worse!

Here? Soton = Brum? I always assumed Brom was cheap (that's is
of course now strictly a relative term). This is a real question
BTW - I'm curious.

A two-up two-down railway terrace is £120,000 in York now. And
that's not in a posh bit of town either.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Just zis Guy, you know? <[email hidden]> wrote:

: bought it. The domestic property market is completely mad, and for some
: reaosn it seems that house price inflation is seen as a good thing.

Indeed. However, at least until/if prices go back to some sane
multiple of earning it doesn't hurt to recognise that for many
people it is currently cheaper to run a car and commute in a
long distance.

Not better maybe, but cheaper.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Just zis Guy said:

The other problem is that nobody can pronoounce Machynllech...

Or spell it, apparently ;-)

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
But on the other side, It didn't say nothing.
That side was made for you and me.