global runs a 3:19

Global Congrats on a great race!!!

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Congrats to Global who's run his sub 3:20, and qualified for Boston. This

was

Quoted message said:

a tough race due to the unusually high temperature. His splits along with pace averages for
differential splits, in classic Global style are:

42:35 (6:51)
1:32:06 (7:11)
2:25:56 (7:48)
3:19:15 (8:35)

Not only am I'm happy for him that he got his BQ, I like my chances of

kicking

Quoted message said:

his butt next time I race him. I suspect he's gonna be just a little sore.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

42:35 (6:51)
1:32:06 (7:11)
2:25:56 (7:48)
3:19:15 (8:35)

Those are the splits of a rank amateur. His inability to control pace should have been hammered out
of him in training. I'm bloody disappointed in him. If that's his concept of racing - i.e. dieing a
slow death as the race progresses - one has to ask why he bothers at all.

Roger. <disgusted

thanks. the heat wacked me (and everyone...but good). i was pleased w/my time at the 1/2
point....and simply fell off the map in the second half completely. folks, i was dying out there
from 20 Mi onward. perhaps 200 runners passed me from miles 23-25. i learned a lot in that and in
observing these runners....they seemed to be experienced marathoners (something i am not) and they
finished strong.....had the "reserves" to up the pace when it counted. i was "just holding on" in
the last 3 miles....really.

mistakes i made: I only did 1 LD run prior, a single 18 miler (race)....and did no training runs of
anything over 9 miles. as per most training schedules...if you're going to run a Marathon...do at
least 2, 20 Milers and an 18 or even a 22. my body was in foreign territory at mile 19....my wall
was at mile 23 and it was a hell of a wall. again, all i can say was i was hanging on for dear life.
it's a scrarry feeling to be a runner to be a runner who can do a 10K @ 6:30 pace in my sleep...yet
be at a point in a race where you are simply doing all you can to "survive" one more mile. i was
just trying to survive the damn thing at mile 23. there's no worse feeling than seeing runners
easily pass you and you've got no gear to kick in...you're spent and trying to hold on....

As for the New York City Marathon as an event? Folks....(I'm not a long distance guy....10K, 4Mi,
5Mi...maybe a 15K or 1/2M is more my thing).....but you have got to run this race at least once in
your life Spoke to a lot of people who said it's better than Boston interms of the fans. My
god....it's u-b-e-l-i-e-v-a-b-l-e ! The whole race is non-stop support. But there are about a dozen
areas where TENS OF THOUSANDS are in as state of out right pandemonium. It's unreal....and they're
cheering for you as you run down these wide Manhattan Boulevards.... When you leave the 59th St.
bridge and Queens...to enter Manhattan...you don't see it till you're off the bridge but you make a
sharp banked left turn, exit the lower level (like a tunnel) and WHAM....TENS OF THOUSANS going
CRAZY. It pumped me up quite a bit as Manhattan is where I live. I had a great time and focused on
my mechanics and running in the first half of the race. Once I hit Manhattan....I had a ball with
the crowd....they cheer for you like nothing I can describe....it's unreal and you have to
experience it once.

When I finished this race.....I was kind of in a state of shock. I could not walk normally...I had
to use my hips and kind of lift and swing around a leg...then the next...to go forward. Mentally all
I thought was..."that was thrilling...and it was awful...why do people do this?" As compared to
shorter distance races.

Anyway...I feel OK about my time...considering the mistakes i made and how the heat hit me. But I
will admit being overly confident I could hang from miles 19 onward almost cost me qualifying for
Boston...which really would have been a bummer. But I got lucky....don't make the mistake I
made....do your LD runs if you're going to marathon.

Andrew..

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Congrats to Global who's run his sub 3:20, and qualified for Boston. This was a tough race due to
the unusually high temperature. His splits along with pace averages for differential splits, in
classic Global style are:

42:35 (6:51)
1:32:06 (7:11)
2:25:56 (7:48)
3:19:15 (8:35)

Not only am I'm happy for him that he got his BQ, I like my chances of kicking his butt next time I
race him. I suspect he's gonna be just a little sore.

I know that anytime your name is mentioned my butt gets sore.

In article said:

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

42:35 (6:51)
1:32:06 (7:11)
2:25:56 (7:48)
3:19:15 (8:35)

Those are the splits of a rank amateur. His inability to control pace should have been hammered
out of him in training. I'm bloody disappointed in him. If that's his concept of racing - i.e.
dieing a slow death as the race progresses - one has to ask why he bothers at all.

If I remember correctly, it was you who told him he should shoot for 3 hours, and the strategy that
*you* recommended would have had him running the first 10k split in about the time that he ran it.
So I think it's silly to criticise him when he ran it in a manner consistent with your advice.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

A thrilling report that warms the cockles of me eart. Well done - brillaint - hope you recover
nicely and aren't too sore next week! Jonathan "Globaldisc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

thanks. the heat wacked me (and everyone...but good). i was pleased

w/my

Quoted message said:

time at the 1/2 point....and simply fell off the map in the second half completely. folks, i was
dying out there from 20 Mi onward. perhaps 200 runners passed me from miles 23-25. i learned a lot
in that and in

observing

Quoted message said:

these runners....they seemed to be experienced marathoners (something i am

not)

Quoted message said:

and they finished strong.....had the "reserves" to up the pace when it

counted.

Quoted message said:

i was "just holding on" in the last 3 miles....really.

mistakes i made: I only did 1 LD run prior, a single 18 miler

(race)....and

Quoted message said:

did no training runs of anything over 9 miles. as per most training schedules...if you're going to
run a Marathon...do at least 2, 20 Milers

and an

Quoted message said:

18 or even a 22. my body was in foreign territory at mile 19....my wall

was at

Quoted message said:

mile 23 and it was a hell of a wall. again, all i can say was i was

hanging

Quoted message said:

on for dear life. it's a scrarry feeling to be a runner to be a runner

who

Quoted message said:

can do a 10K @ 6:30 pace in my sleep...yet be at a point in a race where

you

Quoted message said:

are simply doing all you can to "survive" one more mile. i was just

trying to

Quoted message said:

survive the damn thing at mile 23. there's no worse feeling than seeing

runners

Quoted message said:

easily pass you and you've got no gear to kick in...you're spent and

trying to

Quoted message said:

hold on....

As for the New York City Marathon as an event? Folks....(I'm not a long distance guy....10K, 4Mi,
5Mi...maybe a 15K or 1/2M is more my

thing).....but

Quoted message said:

you have got to run this race at least once in your life Spoke to a lot

of

Quoted message said:

people who said it's better than Boston interms of the fans. My

god....it's

Quoted message said:

u-b-e-l-i-e-v-a-b-l-e ! The whole race is non-stop support. But there

are

Quoted message said:

about a dozen areas where TENS OF THOUSANDS are in as state of out right pandemonium. It's
unreal....and they're cheering for you as you run down these wide Manhattan Boulevards.... When
you leave the 59th St. bridge and Queens...to enter Manhattan...you don't see it till you're off
the bridge

but

Quoted message said:

you make a sharp banked left turn, exit the lower level (like a tunnel)

and

Quoted message said:

WHAM....TENS OF THOUSANS going CRAZY. It pumped me up quite a bit as Manhattan is where I live. I
had a great time and focused on my mechanics and running in the first

half of

Quoted message said:

the race. Once I hit Manhattan....I had a ball with the crowd....they

cheer

Quoted message said:

for you like nothing I can describe....it's unreal and you have to

experience

Quoted message said:

it once.

When I finished this race.....I was kind of in a state of shock. I could

not

Quoted message said:

walk normally...I had to use my hips and kind of lift and swing around a leg...then the next...to
go forward. Mentally all I thought was..."that

was

Quoted message said:

thrilling...and it was awful...why do people do this?" As compared to

shorter

Quoted message said:

distance races.

Anyway...I feel OK about my time...considering the mistakes i made and how

the

Quoted message said:

heat hit me. But I will admit being overly confident I could hang from

miles

Quoted message said:

19 onward almost cost me qualifying for Boston...which really would have

been a

Quoted message said:

bummer. But I got lucky....don't make the mistake I made....do your LD

runs

Quoted message said:

if you're going to marathon.

Andrew..

In article said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Congrats to Global who's run his sub 3:20, and qualified for Boston.

Very pleased for him on this! Is it a PB too?

Quoted message said:

His splits along with pace averages for differential splits, in classic Global style are:

Sorry for being thick, but those splits are at what mile/kilometer? Is it 5 mile/10/15 or
10k/half/30k (the 3:19, I've figured for myself :-)?

10k/half/20 mile

--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

apusapus said:

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

42:35 (6:51)
1:32:06 (7:11)
2:25:56 (7:48)
3:19:15 (8:35)

Those are the splits of a rank amateur. His inability to control pace should have been hammered out
of him in training. I'm bloody disappointed in him. If that's his concept of racing - i.e. dieing a
slow death as the race progresses - one has to ask why he bothers at all.

Roger. <disgusted>

Why are you disgusted? Get beat playing "paperboy" again?

Great job, Andrew! Congrats on your BQ. I was spectating and probably saw you pass by once ...
you're right, it's a marvelous race. I'll try to do it next year.

Brian B

Globaldisc said:

thanks. the heat wacked me (and everyone...but good). i was pleased w/my time at the 1/2
point....and simply fell off the map in the second half completely. folks, i was dying out there
from 20 Mi onward. perhaps 200 runners passed me from miles 23-25. i learned a lot in that and in
observing these runners....they seemed to be experienced marathoners (something i am not) and they
finished strong.....had the "reserves" to up the pace when it counted. i was "just holding on" in
the last 3 miles....really.

[report snipped but appreciated]

Very nicely done, Andrew. The event got an hour on USA TV (mostly about
P.Diddy, of course) and it looked pretty brutal. I'm not convinced that your splits were all that
bad. Heat, novelty, and crowds tend to do a number on my ability to judge appropriate pace. Maybe
as we do more events both of us will get better at it.

Congrats on the BQ! Layne

-------------------------------------------------------
The rec.running report archives may be found at kinder.cis.unf.edurec.runningOpen ↗

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If I remember correctly, it was you who told him he should shoot for 3

hours,

Quoted message said:

and the strategy that *you* recommended would have had him running the

first

Quoted message said:

10k split in about the time that he ran it. So I think it's silly to criticise him when he ran it
in a manner consistent with your advice.

IIRC, Andrew suggested his *real* goal was a sub 3. Based on that, and assuming he'd done the
training, the basic strategy I recommended would have worked. Clearly;

a) he was considerably undertrained for his *real* goal,

b) he only just, by the grace of God, made his stated goal, despite a fade at the end that indicates
a severe problem with basic speed endurance,

c) he has to sit down and *majorly* restructure his training if he is ever going to get anywhere
near his desired sub 3.

Having said all the above, I believe Andrew's racing difficulties are more
psychological than physical, although he is carrying around rather a lot of weight to go
comfortably sub 3.

Donny, you would do well to offer honest advice - even though it may appear harsh - if you really
want your friend to achieve his goals.

Roger.

In article said:

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If I remember correctly, it was you who told him he should shoot for 3

hours,

Quoted message said:

and the strategy that *you* recommended would have had him running the

first

Quoted message said:

10k split in about the time that he ran it. So I think it's silly to criticise him when he ran it
in a manner consistent with your advice.

IIRC, Andrew suggested his *real* goal was a sub 3. Based on that, and

Sub 3 was a pie-in-the-sky goal at best, given his half marathon was slower than that pace, and his
races IIRC uniformly predicted a slower time than that.

Quoted message said:

a) he was considerably undertrained for his *real* goal,

I'll let Global handle this if he wants. I think you're just plain wrong.

Quoted message said:

b) he only just, by the grace of God, made his stated goal, despite a fade at the end that
indicates a severe problem with basic speed endurance,

Nope. It just indicates that he couldn't maintain 6:50 in those conditions.

BTW, a lot of runners had a hard time at the end of the race. Even the elite women seemed to
die at the end after chasing the leader, who, as a smaller runner was probably better able to
handle the heat.

Quoted message said:

c) he has to sit down and *majorly* restructure his training if he is ever going to get anywhere
near his desired sub 3.

Not really. Runners steadily improve their marathon performances without radical changes.

I'd say the only change he'd need to make to make substantial and steady improvements is to race
less. He might also be better off 10lb or so lighter, but there's only so far down he can go with
his frame.

Quoted message said:

Having said all the above, I believe Andrew's racing difficulties are more
psychological than physical, although he is carrying around rather a lot of weight to go
comfortably sub 3.

Yes, and remember, it's the bigger guys who have more trouble with the heat.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Quoted message said:

a) he was considerably undertrained for his *real* goal,

I'll let Global handle this if he wants. I think you're just plain wrong.

"I only did 1 LD run prior, a single 18 miler (race)....and did no training runs of anything
over 9 miles"

That's seriously undertrained for the marathon, and nobody
in their right mind would believe otherwise. I don't think that
Global thinks he was adequately trained. From my perspective, he
got by on strength, willpower, and a time much slower than what
his 1:30:31 1/2M time predicts he could do with adequate training.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

c) he has to sit down and *majorly* restructure his training if he is ever going to get anywhere
near his desired sub 3.

Not really. Runners steadily improve their marathon performances without radical changes.

I'd say the only change he'd need to make to make substantial and steady improvements is to race
less. He might also be better off 10lb or so lighter, but there's only so far down he can go with
his frame.

Er, that, and start doing actual long runs on a regular basis. Without a steady diet of 1:30 -
2:30 runs, his marathon time will continue to lag well behind what it could be with a more
distance-focused training program -- assuming that's something he's interested in, of course. But
even for those 5k and 10k races, he'd gain from taking the long run over 9 miles. Tomato, tomahto
- is this a radical restructuring? Going to a weekly 14 miler would be a big change in some ways,
and probably a very beneficial one. But it's probably not a very traumatic change.

But, maybe I'm just biased, just got back from a lovely 14 miler out and back through heartbreak
and some of the newton hills. Mmm. Coming out to Boston next year, Andrew?

-Dave

--
work: dga - at - lcs.mit.edu me: angio - at - pobox.com MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
angio.netangio.netOpen ↗ (note that my reply-to address is vaguely despammed...) bulk emailers: I do
not accept unsolicited email. Do not mail me.

In article said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Quoted message said:

a) he was considerably undertrained for his *real* goal,

I'll let Global handle this if he wants. I think you're just plain wrong.

"I only did 1 LD run prior, a single 18 miler (race)....and did no training runs of anything
over 9 miles"

That's seriously undertrained for the marathon,

No, he was seriously undertrained for optimal marathon performance. But he was sufficiently well
trained to run a BQ.

Quoted message said:

and nobody in their right mind would believe otherwise. I don't think that

His real goal was to qualify for Boston, and he did that. Hindsight is 20/20 and in this case, it
tells us that he was sufficiently prepared for his goal.

I am in complete agreement with you that a more focused approach to training would improve his
performances.

Cheers.
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Dave Andersen said:

From my perspective, he got by on strength, willpower, and a time much slower than what his
1:30:31 1/2M time predicts he could do with adequate training.

Adequate training put aside, 1:31 HM predicts a 3:15 marathon so he wasn't all that far off, giving
the pace he started at and the heat...

You are right though, training seems a little strange.

Andrew, congrats on the finish and the BQ time...your training methods can be discussed after the
glow wears off. You have already pointed out the error of your ways, so for now enjoy...!

Mike C

Quoted message said:

thanks. the heat wacked me (and everyone...but good). i was pleased w/my time at the 1/2
point....and simply fell off the map in the second half completely. folks, i was dying out there
from 20 Mi onward. perhaps 200 runners passed me from miles 23-25. i learned a lot in that and in
observing these runners....they seemed to be experienced marathoners (something i am not) and they
finished strong.....had the "reserves" to up the pace when it counted. i was "just holding on" in
the last 3 miles....really.

mistakes i made: I only did 1 LD run prior, a single 18 miler (race)....and did no training runs of
anything over 9 miles. as per most training schedules...if you're going to run a Marathon...do at
least 2, 20 Milers and an 18 or even a 22. my body was in foreign territory at mile 19....my wall
was at mile 23 and it was a hell of a wall. again, all i can say was i was hanging on for dear
life. it's a scrarry feeling to be a runner to be a runner who can do a 10K @ 6:30 pace in my
sleep...yet be at a point in a race where you are simply doing all you can to "survive" one more
mile. i was just trying to survive the damn thing at mile 23. there's no worse feeling than seeing
runners easily pass you and you've got no gear to kick in...you're spent and trying to hold on....

As for the New York City Marathon as an event? Folks....(I'm not a long distance guy....10K, 4Mi,
5Mi...maybe a 15K or 1/2M is more my thing).....but you have got to run this race at least once in
your life Spoke to a lot of people who said it's better than Boston interms of the fans. My
god....it's u-b-e-l-i-e-v-a-b-l-e ! The whole race is non-stop support. But there are about a dozen
areas where TENS OF THOUSANDS are in as state of out right pandemonium. It's unreal....and they're
cheering for you as you run down these wide Manhattan Boulevards.... When you leave the 59th St.
bridge and Queens...to enter Manhattan...you don't see it till you're off the bridge but you make a
sharp banked left turn, exit the lower level (like a tunnel) and WHAM....TENS OF THOUSANS going
CRAZY. It pumped me up quite a bit as Manhattan is where I live. I had a great time and focused on
my mechanics and running in the first half of the race. Once I hit Manhattan....I had a ball with
the crowd....they cheer for you like nothing I can describe....it's unreal and you have to
experience it once.

When I finished this race.....I was kind of in a state of shock. I could not walk normally...I had
to use my hips and kind of lift and swing around a leg...then the next...to go forward. Mentally
all I thought was..."that was thrilling...and it was awful...why do people do this?" As compared to
shorter distance races.

Anyway...I feel OK about my time...considering the mistakes i made and how the heat hit me. But I
will admit being overly confident I could hang from miles 19 onward almost cost me qualifying for
Boston...which really would have been a bummer. But I got lucky....don't make the mistake I
made....do your LD runs if you're going to marathon.

Andrew..

In article said:

...my wall was atmile 23 and it was a hell of a wall. again, all i can say was i was hanging on
for dear life. ... But there are about a dozen areas where TENS OF THOUSANDS are in as state of
out right pandemonium. It's unreal. ... When I finished this race. I was kind of in a state of
shock. I could not walk normally.

Sounds like a fantastic first marathon experience - the requisite physical & mental suffering, an
extremely memorable setting, you achieved a major goal (BQ) but still have plenty of room to improve
next time.

Hope I can run the NY marathon someday.

Andrew

steve common <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Be careful if you don't want to start another 300-post thread. If marathoners have a flawed
training approach, they *get worse* not better.

Amen, brother!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, and remember, it's the bigger guys who have more trouble with the heat.

Quoted message said:

Yes. And significant heat can screw the end of the race for anyone (friends had the same problem
in Rotterdam last year).

It´s probably quite not so straight-forward as "more bulk = more trouble with the heat", there´s far
too much invidual variation for that.

But it _is_ as plain and simple as "in trouble on a normal day = in big trouble on a hot day"! What
just possibly might be forgiven - such as the first 10K ran at an unsustainable sub-3:00 pace or the
first half at a sub-3:05 pace - in ideal conditions will be severely punished in unfavourable ones.

OTOH I really cannot stand anyone who didn´t have to start and finish in 80F or so attributing
anything to the effects of the hot weather:-)

Anyway, I hope Andrew will accept is as a compliment if I express the opinion that he really made
such a bollocks of his race - two more kilometers and he wouldn´t have made the "44.2K BQ"(1) - that
many other guys would´ve let their goal slip away gently...

(1)or maybe he would, he may have been "hurting but cruising", but, the size of one´s balls very
seldom helps to increase one´s pace, if needed, on those kind of last kilometers.

Anders

Andrew - Congrats on the BQ!

It seems you really did it the hard way - heat, fast start, and somewhat under-trained (for a
marathon).

Like you said, you need to decide where your running priorities are - sprints, 10K's etc. But if you
want to put in some serious marathon training, you'll see some big performance improvements.

The atmosphere for the marathon sounds amazing.

Anthony.