global checking in w/the ng & update

Lanceandrew said:

a sprinter, not a distance runner...and the lifting was bulking me down and
contributing to being prone to injury. I just started doing 9 miles/day 5-6
days a week...at a 7:20 pace in Gel Cum VI's.

Good to see you getting back into it, was wondering what had happened.

7:20 is awfully fast for training runs. Get in some speed work and do the
training runs slower if you can. BTW, the next ``running class'' session
starts in a week. I'd highly recommend it if you can make it. Basically it
would involve getting your butt kicked by the ladies on my team every Tuesday
night (I'm not kidding -- they're fast).

Excellent job in that race. I notice you started a few seconds back from the
line this time -- wise move, the fast club runners would have dragged you
out in 6 flat. Your first (largely downhill) mile was fast, but not
excessively so -- you'd expect to be fast on that mile running by
even effort. If you can run smart in the marathon, you'll improve on your
previous effort by several minutes. Stay focused on your 3:10 goal and don't
get distracted with fantasies about a sub 3 (because you're not going to get a
sub 3 without a lot more training)

I wonder how you came to run that fast off relatively little training though ?
Did you lose a lot of weight ? Or maybe you were just overtrained before ?
Anyway, sounds like you're making a solid comeback.

Quoted message said:

hills (my mass kills me here, this is the weakest link in my running
game)...

Last time I did this race, mile 2 (same as mile 8) was the slowest on the
course -- even slower than mile 5/11 where you go up the harlem hill.

I'd recommend doing some repeats of cat hill -- good for your confidence on
the hills.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

I want to share something that worked well for me. First of all I know
"Donovan" on this ng....that guy is great. He knows his stuff....I watched

Thanks.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

for yours. And then whatever/wherever/however you can derive some mental
focuse and ability to persevere...."bottle it". I sense lots of runners
underestimate the value of the mental side of this stuff we do....I ran over
my head yesterday...and I think we all have that potential. Some days we
have it...some days we don't.

I have a different view on this.

I remember Marty Liquori saying something that I thought was very insightful,
commenting on how Radcliffe jumped into the 10k after a bad marathon, hoping
"for some magic". He went on to say "but there's not a whole lot of magic
in distance running. There's just reality and science".

Often "having it" on the day boils down to being well rested. If you're
overtrained or *cough* *cough* overraced, you will not "have it" mentally on
the day, because your body isn't ready for yet another battle. To some extent,
the mental and physical aspects of it are interchangeable, because training
has physiological effects that the brain is receptive to. Basically, if your
body is hungry for a race, your mind will be ready for it.

Still not sure whether or not I'm going to do the marathon. Good luck with
it.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

"Lanceandrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

snip>

Quoted message said:

How bout' them Giants?

<< >
snip>

Quoted message said:

How bout' them Giants? >>

Superkewl,
That family,
The Titans.

_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
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It's too bad that one of your personal goals wasn't to keep the whining
to a minimum.........and to yourself.

Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Good to see you getting back into it, was wondering what had happened.

Me, too! (c) AOL:-)

Quoted message said:

7:20 is awfully fast for training runs.

It is, but OTOH it would be somewhere a bit under
85%HRmax for him, i.e. it could still be steady
state running or close enough to be near optimal
aerobic training for someone who doesn´t yet have
or cannot adhere to a more complicated program.

The catch is that a poor soul can easily convince
himself that what clearly worked for him (now who
could argue against that 1:29?) will continue to
work for him - but the ugly truth is that doing
9 miles at 7:20 pace 5-6 times a week will cease
o produce any positive result in a fairly low
number of weeks.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(...)
I want to share something that worked well for me. First of all I know
"Donovan" on this ng....that guy is great. He knows his stuff....I watched

Quoted message said:

Thanks.

This is perhaps the time and the place to point out to
global that sometimes simple emulation is the best form
of flattery:-)

Quoted message said:

Still not sure whether or not I'm going to do the marathon. Good luck with
it.

With your mileage you are in a position where you can
freely choose one way or the other even at this point
(what, four full weeks before Day D?). I can assure you
that there are some things in life which one won´t regret
no matter how things turn out. Running your first marathon
could well be one such thing.

Besides, if you´d set yourself such high standards and
rigorous condition for entering your first race as you
appear to do for your first marathon, you´d still be
a jogger, if a fast one:-)

Anders

Anders Lustig said:

Quoted message said:

Good to see you getting back into it, was wondering what had happened.

Me, too! (c) AOL:-)

BTW I saw him out there in the park last night.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

With your mileage you are in a position where you can
freely choose one way or the other even at this point
(what, four full weeks before Day D?). I can assure you
that there are some things in life which one won´t regret
no matter how things turn out. Running your first marathon
could well be one such thing.

Yeah, the main thing that's giving me second thoughts is that
there's a 10k race a week from then, and I really want to put
a good 10k time on the record this year. So the timing (for
New York anyway) just isn't that good. I suppose I could do
it as a long training run but I don't trust myself to be
"noncompetitive" in a race.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Quoted message said:

Yeah, the main thing that's giving me second thoughts is that

there's a 10k race a week from then, and I really want to put
a good 10k time on the record this year. So the timing (for
New York anyway) just isn't that good.
_

i venture that much of the field in that 10K will be in the NYCM (nuetralizing
this concern), if they can do it so can you. plus running communities know of
the performance grace period post a big M.

do the M Donovan...it's a no brainer. 10K's come & go...there's only 1 NYC
Marathon, it's the Superbowl, and you will remember this one event
forever....not so w/the 10K. (it's a better lifetime fulfillment/enrichment
investment). Did you run in the USA 8K Men's Championships? I've done
it...started at least right next to all the Nike SuperStar Runners, (Brown,
etc.). I can't even remember those damn races....

NYCM...it's the most "in-demand" (popular) Marathon in the world...and you got
a ticket in...why would you sleep on that? there's some guy in craigslist NY
looking to pay $350 for someone's entry just to be able to participate in it.
i saw an ad at a local runner's shop here in NYC w/someone willing to pay $500
+ the $30 deposit for the chip...for an entry (not even under their name).

don't be silly...run the damn race. enough of this nonsense talk already!

Lanceandrew said:

Quoted message said:

Yeah, the main thing that's giving me second thoughts is that

there's a 10k race a week from then, and I really want to put
a good 10k time on the record this year. So the timing (for
New York anyway) just isn't that good.
_

i venture that much of the field in that 10K will be in the NYCM
(nuetralizing this concern),

The 10k is a week *after* the marathon. Most people don't race a week
after the marathon. And no-one runs a *good* race a week after a marathon.
For example, you have experience running a lousy race the week after a
marathon.

Quoted message said:

if they can do it so can you. plus running communities know of the
performance grace period post a big M.

Not sure what you mean. The race is a fairly big one. Last year, the top 4
ran this race sub-5. It's a serious race. Do you know how many people have
gone sub 5:00 in central park this year ?

None.

Quoted message said:

do the M Donovan...it's a no brainer. 10K's come & go...

Really ? Name some. I haven't run a single decent 10k race this year. The only
two I can think of that are left are this one (Giralda Farms 10k in NJ) and
the Joe K. But the Joe K is on a tough course, and it could get snowed out,
which means a slow time even if they don't cancel.

Quoted message said:

there's only 1 NYC Marathon, it's the Superbowl, and you will remember this
one event forever....not so w/the 10K.

I will remember if I run a really good 10k.

Quoted message said:

(it's a better lifetime fulfillment/enrichment investment).

That's a value judgment -- *your* value judgment.

Quoted message said:

Did you run in the USA 8K Men's Championships? I've done
it...started at least right next to all the Nike SuperStar Runners, (Brown,
etc.). I can't even remember those damn races....

Yes, but what you did is churned out mediocre performances on a weekly basis.
The reason you don't remember them is that they weren't memorable -- none
of your races was much different from any other.

I can remember mine -- my 4:52 mile at the armory, my 22:38 for 4 miles, my
28:27 for 5 miles, my 1:21 half marathon. Because all of these were memorable
performances.

Quoted message said:

NYCM...it's the most "in-demand" (popular) Marathon in the world...and you
got a ticket in...why would you sleep on that? there's some guy in

I don't give a damn what these people think. Of course finishing a marathon is
a big deal to them -- most people in the marathon are barely trained to finish
the race, they're not trained to race it. Whereas to me, a 3:10 marathon is
just a slightly extended training run.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Quoted message said:

Of course finishing a marathon is

a big deal to them -- most people in the marathon are barely trained to finish
the race, they're not trained to race it. Whereas to me, a 3:10 marathon is
just a slightly extended training run.
__

Donovan, friend, since you've no experience at the endeavor (Marathoning) or
this singular event(NYCM), you can't very well use language
comparing/contrasting or even suggesting you're knowledged on this singular
race experience... who cares about "most people...etc" (your statement).
Downgrading the weekend warrior runners in the event is missing it and
pointless. All you need to know is if you can't crack 2:50 you probably
won't finish in the top 200. NYCM is a tough course where records are not
made. You're not a lock to crack 2:50. [censored] happens and stars break down and
or make strategic errors of judgement. Furthermore you've never raced in an
event with this percentage of international or domestic competititon. The
start feels like the Olympics and 1/2 of the people around you will be
foreigners from racing teams/clubs all over Europe and Asia. (of the
competitive field..-not the weekend warriors-...I think nearly 50% is foreign
). Lastly...this isn't just any Marathon and the estimated fan/spectator count
last year was 2,000,000+ people.

I would not forego the chance to have a most memorable experience, in the most
competitive field, at the biggest race in the world, that happens once a
year...that thousands are turned away from being allowed to enter....in pursuit
of something you could defer some months until the Spring. It's not like it's
an Olympic Trial event for you. And the NYCM... It could possibly be a
paramount life transforming experience like not other. It is for many....but
you won't know unless you do it. I used to depreciate Marathons.....and then
I did one. Undeniably "Awesome"...that's all I can say....and I did not know
wtf I was talking about. As an Original Californian...I'd like a crack at Big
Sur...and intend to in '05.

Hate to see you miss out on the big race Donovan...

Lanceandrew said:

I would not forego the chance to have a most memorable experience, in the
most competitive field, at the biggest race in the world, that happens once
a year...that thousands are turned away from being allowed to enter....in
pursuit of something you could defer some months until the Spring.

You're missing the point: *my* goal is to put a good 10k time on the board
*this year*. Not next spring, or some other time. This year. Completing a
marathon this year is NOT one of my goals.

What you're saying is that I should forget about my goal, so I can run off and
participate in an unrelated diversion for kicks.

NYCM will still be there in 05, right ?

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi said:

You're missing the point: *my* goal is to put a good 10k time on the board
*this year*. Not next spring, or some other time. This year. Completing a
marathon this year is NOT one of my goals.

FWIW, I set PB 21k and 10ks in the run up to my goal (also PB) marathon.

True, the 10k wasn't one week before, but it was a planned part of the
training schedule (12 week plan, HM 5 weeks out, 10k two weeks out).

I don't see two goals as incompatible as long as you get a fortnight's
rest after the 10k (so choose another marathon) - or you can bank on
luck, good training, youth, All American Guts etc and go for NY after
the 10k, if the 10 works out like you're hoping.

steve common said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

You're missing the point: *my* goal is to put a good 10k time on the board
*this year*. Not next spring, or some other time. This year. Completing a
marathon this year is NOT one of my goals.

FWIW, I set PB 21k and 10ks in the run up to my goal (also PB) marathon.

True, the 10k wasn't one week before, but it was a planned part of the
training schedule (12 week plan, HM 5 weeks out, 10k two weeks out).

I don't see two goals as incompatible as long as you get a fortnight's
rest after the 10k (so choose another marathon) - or you can bank on
luck, good training, youth, All American Guts etc and go for NY after
the 10k, if the 10 works out like you're hoping.

The 10k is a week *after* the marathon.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

You're missing the point: *my* goal is to put a good 10k time on the board
*this year*. Not next spring, or some other time. This year. Completing a
marathon this year is NOT one of my goals.

No, the voices in the Greek chorus are suggesting that your
goal is sincere but rather light-weight and certainly not as
deep or long-standing as you would like to believe it to be,
and that you may, in fact, be using it as an excuse for not
running (as opposed to merely completing) a marathon - which
is a step that you dread to take:-)

Either that, or we do respect your goal, but suggesrt that
if you were to reconsider your preferences and chose to make
the marathon your goal, you wouldn´t regret it a bit. The
absence of a sub-37 10K in 2005 would not eat out your insides.

Quoted message said:

What you're saying is that I should forget about my goal, so I can run off and
participate in an unrelated diversion for kicks.

If you took the risks(1) and delayed your sub-37 attempt until
the Joe Kleinerman, would you really be so poorly(2) trained
for the NYC marathon that you would have to run it as a mere
diversion?

(1) A tough course is a risk with a probability of 1.0, but
I think you can afford to take it. OTOH the odds of another
NYC snowstorm must be quite a bit slower.

(2) It strikes me that you´d be, at worst, unoptimally trained,
i.e. you´d probably have to accept missing your WAVA table
prediction by a few minutes - but, IMHO, it would still be
"a good one".

Quoted message said:

NYCM will still be there in 05, right ?

Well, I can think of a number of things which I used post-
pone in a very similar fashion - and suddenly I was a middle-
aged man and a father of two:-)

OTOH if you choose to stick to the Giralda Farms 10K, you
could still "choose another marathon" - there must be one
within a convenient and affordable distance; La Rochelle,
France, probably isn´t - a fortnight later.

It´d at least make us shut up...

Anders

Anders Lustig said:

Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

You're missing the point: *my* goal is to put a good 10k time on the board
*this year*. Not next spring, or some other time. This year. Completing a
marathon this year is NOT one of my goals.

No, the voices in the Greek chorus are suggesting that your
goal is sincere but rather light-weight and certainly not as
deep or long-standing as you would like to believe it to be,
and that you may, in fact, be using it as an excuse for not
running (as opposed to merely completing) a marathon - which
is a step that you dread to take:-)

Bwaahahahahahahaha. Your writing/chain-yanking skills are very
impressive indeed. But my answer to those voices is simply
"sorry, I just don't see it that way".

Quoted message said:

Either that, or we do respect your goal, but suggesrt that
if you were to reconsider your preferences and chose to make
the marathon your goal, you wouldn´t regret it a bit. The
absence of a sub-37 10K in 2005 would not eat out your insides.

You meant 2004, right ? Anyway, since it was my primary goal for
this year, it would.

Quoted message said:

If you took the risks(1) and delayed your sub-37 attempt until
the Joe Kleinerman, would you really be so poorly(2) trained
for the NYC marathon that you would have to run it as a mere
diversion?

I'm mostly worried about the possibility of poor weather. Races
being cancelled due to poor weather in New York is not the exception,
it's two of the last three winters. The only question in my mind is,
which races will be cancelled this winter.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

NYCM will still be there in 05, right ?

Well, I can think of a number of things which I used post- pone in a very
similar fashion - and suddenly I was a middle- aged man and a father of
two:-)

OTOH if you choose to stick to the Giralda Farms 10K, you could still
"choose another marathon" - there must be one within a convenient and
affordable distance; La Rochelle, France, probably isn´t - a fortnight
later.

Yeah, there's the Philadelphia race for example.

Quoted message said:

It´d at least make us shut up...

But I'm having so much fun listening to your trolling (-;

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi said:

The 10k is a week *after* the marathon.

Oops <blushing "Billy Beetroot"> my mistake.
So are there any handy marathons two weeks after the 10k?

(Anders Lustig) said:

OTOH if you choose to stick to the Giralda Farms 10K, you
could still "choose another marathon" - there must be one
within a convenient and affordable distance; La Rochelle,
France, probably isn´t - a fortnight later.

A great race, especially if you like oysters. Each runner gets a dozen
(or two) at the finish line.

However, if Donovan is into shellfish, rather than coming to
La Rochelle, maybe Dot could suggest an south-Alaskan marathon (or
Seattle) which may give you a dozen /Panopea Abrupta/(1) at the finish
(just one is already more than enough IMO) <sound of 9 yo boy
sniggering>

(1) geoduck clam
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/photos/photo.asp?PhotoID=47994

<<
Oops <blushing "Billy Beetroot"> my mistake. >>

O, look! Billy Beetroot!
What buzzing bee
So you root for?
Or perhaps your fave drink
To swill? Dr. Pepper,
Or a Mountain Dew?
Pepsicola, awfully good!
Consider:
Pep is Pepsi,
Anagram!
Enjoy these enchanted sounds
Of Morning Wood.
The dark night's
Only begun.
Crack some ice,
Pours us fizzy softdrink beverage ~
Goodwill, this well, a bountiful leverage
Againt sad heart.
Or just a bit of Art,
Stolen from the granite monolith,
That Metropolitan Museum,
Bording Morning Wood's
East edge
O look! Bat hanging
[Inverted]
Off a ledge,
Reflecting right-side up
In the reflecting pool.
Just another unpooled
Ball of yarn
Knitting me a sweater
For this chilly night, a darn
Good dog tale, this Morning Wood.
_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

<< A great race, especially if you like oysters. Each runner gets a dozen
(or two) at the finish line. >>

Indeed!
Oysters on the half-shell,
Over with Sherrif Blair,
Dining now in Tavern on the Green.
Earth's rugged shell
Baked over rock salt sandy platter ~
Spinnach sprinkled atop,
Or as we say in the international trade
Wind, Oysters Rockefellar,
My old-fave childhood fave
Dish, served at 4-Star restararant
Driftwood, another nibbling sight
Sited on the map of Morning Wood.

<< shellfish, rather than coming to
La Rochelle, >>

<>

Clap! Par excellence!
What's new?
What's old!
Old told, bring me more!
My appetite, yes, spiked
With desire. The frilly red toothpicks
Stab my bright cherry,
As I sip my kiddie cocktail,
Along with appetizer,
Horshradish salad,
Fresh, chilled, with a snappy
Bite. Bite. Bite.
Pale green, leafy bed !
Let us go now, you and I
To hunt down tonight's
Desire, alight, higher
Than before ~
Or else we find ourselves
Etherized upon silver bed,
Stable doors left unlocked,
Horses loose, without a tether
Rein ~
O horses!
Tether ~

_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
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Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(...) But my answer to those voices is simply "sorry, I just
don't see it that way".

That´s fine with me. But it seldom hurts to have someone
play a sort of devil´s advocate who´ll make you look at
what may be hidden behind your goals and motives...

Quoted message said:

I'm mostly worried about the possibility of poor weather. Races
being cancelled due to poor weather in New York is not the exception,
it's two of the last three winters. (...)

Hey, this makes it immediately obvious to any mathematically
literate person that the risk of poor weather this year, too,
is "zero, zilch, nada"!

Quoted message said:

Yeah, there's the Philadelphia race for example.

A seed has fallen on fertile soil, I hope!

Anders