Glad I saved my frame

Quoted post said:

Last week I had a bit of a problem getting a stuck bottom bracket out,
but eventually I did get it out. At one point I thought I would just
buy a new frame and swap over all the components, or just buy a new
bike. A trip to the bike shop was eye opening for me. Lots of bikes
with sloped top tubes and threadless headsets, not a single one with a
horizontal tt and a nice threaded silver stem. I just don't like the
look of sloped top tubes, long seatposts, black stems and spacers,
and I suppose threadless is ok for a low stem, but I like the bars
about an inch lower than the seat, and the way that is done with
threadless looks ugly to me. So the guy said I could get what I
wanted custom made, looking at about 1500 just for frame and fork. At
that point I decided I really needed to get that bb out, and I did. I
can understand the move to sloping/threadless, but what I can't
understand is the complete abandonment by major builders of the
traditional style.

Bill

It's all about marketing Bill, not aesthetics nor performance..But
making fewer sizes, shoving more people into those fewer sizes and
trying to take market share from other makers, in this very flat
bicycle market.

There are horizontal top tubes but the one thing the LBS clone did say
that was right is it will be custom and probably steel(horrors, that
old stuff?) and it will look tremendous, ride like a dream and last
forever..but not of trekspecializedgiantcannondale-esque.

Quoted message said:

I like the bars
about an inch lower than the seat, and the way that is done with
threadless looks ugly to me.

You like the look of a stem that has an elbow aimed at your nards, do
you?

When feasible, I favor stems that take the shortest distance from
point to point. There used to be some nice-looking MTB quill stems
which did that, more or less, but they are exceedingly rare now.
Here's one from the historical preservationists at Rivendell:

http://www.rivbike.com/images/products/full/0000/0638/16-100_site_DD.jpg

Threadless stems with ample rise always proceed from headset to bars
without zigzagging around. That may not look traditional, but it's a
better idea.

Chalo

Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com said:

There are horizontal top tubes but the one thing the LBS clone did say
that was right is it will be custom and probably steel(horrors, that
old stuff?) and it will look tremendous, ride like a dream and last
forever..but not of trekspecializedgiantcannondale-esque.

When I needed a custom frame I figured it would probably be steel too,
but I ended up getting a Ti frame from Mark Hickey (Habanero Cycles).
His price has gone up a little since then (the dollar has weakened)
but you can still get a custom frame from him, with fork, for less
than $1500. When people ask me why I got a titanium frame, I say
it's because I couldn't find a custom steel one for what I paid.

Tom Ace

Quoted post said:

Last week I had a bit of a problem getting a stuck bottom bracket out,
but eventually I did get it out. At one point I thought I would just
buy a new frame and swap over all the components, or just buy a new
bike. A trip to the bike shop was eye opening for me. Lots of bikes
with sloped top tubes and threadless headsets, not a single one with a
horizontal tt and a nice threaded silver stem. I just don't like the
look of sloped top tubes, long seatposts, black stems and spacers,
and I suppose threadless is ok for a low stem, but I like the bars
about an inch lower than the seat, and the way that is done with
threadless looks ugly to me. So the guy said I could get what I
wanted custom made, looking at about 1500 just for frame and fork. At
that point I decided I really needed to get that bb out, and I did. I
can understand the move to sloping/threadless, but what I can't
understand is the complete abandonment by major builders of the
traditional style.

Bill

The traditional style is straight up needlessly heavy. Even on a nice
who-cares-about-weight-ish retro steel road bike, you're still
actually paying a bunch of money for light things.

All of the REALLY bad stuff that's transpired in the industry stems
from a similar focus on aesthetics.

Quoted post said:

Last week I had a bit of a problem getting a stuck bottom bracket out,
but eventually I did get it out. At one point I thought I would just
buy a new frame and swap over all the components, or just buy a new
bike. A trip to the bike shop was eye opening for me. Lots of bikes
with sloped top tubes and threadless headsets, not a single one with a
horizontal tt and a nice threaded silver stem. I just don't like the
look of sloped top tubes, long seatposts, black stems and spacers,
and I suppose threadless is ok for a low stem, but I like the bars
about an inch lower than the seat, and the way that is done with
threadless looks ugly to me. So the guy said I could get what I
wanted custom made, looking at about 1500 just for frame and fork. At
that point I decided I really needed to get that bb out, and I did. I
can understand the move to sloping/threadless, but what I can't
understand is the complete abandonment by major builders of the
traditional style.

Bill

Where do you ride? "Girls' bikes" have been status quo for at least 6
or 7 years now....

I purchased a new 853 frame from www.gvhbikes.com almost ten years
ago. They still deally largely in steel, and I think the prices are
fair.

Scott

Tom Ace said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com said:

There are horizontal top tubes but the one thing the LBS clone did say
that was right is it will be custom and probably steel(horrors, that
old stuff?) and it will look tremendous, ride like a dream and last
forever..but not of trekspecializedgiantcannondale-esque.

When I needed a custom frame I figured it would probably be steel too,
but I ended up getting a Ti frame from Mark Hickey (Habanero Cycles).
His price has gone up a little since then (the dollar has weakened)
but you can still get a custom frame from him, with fork, for less
than $1500. When people ask me why I got a titanium frame, I say
it's because I couldn't find a custom steel one for what I paid.

Tom Ace

Waterford custom steel is $1300.

Scott Gordo said:

Where do you ride? "Girls' bikes" have been status quo for at least 6 or 7 years now....

Scott-

I ride in a very rural part of upstate NY, I rarely see another
rider. So I don't see a lot of bikes.

I think that giving the consumer choice is usually a good thing. So a
bike buyer could say, for example - could you swap out that black
threadless fork and stem for a silver threaded, I just like the look
better. But that's just not an option today.

Bill

Quoted post said:

Last week I had a bit of a problem getting a stuck bottom bracket out,
but eventually I did get it out. At one point I thought I would just
buy a new frame and swap over all the components, or just buy a new
bike. A trip to the bike shop was eye opening for me. Lots of bikes
with sloped top tubes and threadless headsets, not a single one with a
horizontal tt and a nice threaded silver stem. I just don't like the
look of sloped top tubes, long seatposts, black stems and spacers,
and I suppose threadless is ok for a low stem, but I like the bars
about an inch lower than the seat, and the way that is done with
threadless looks ugly to me. So the guy said I could get what I
wanted custom made, looking at about 1500 just for frame and fork. At
that point I decided I really needed to get that bb out, and I did. I
can understand the move to sloping/threadless, but what I can't
understand is the complete abandonment by major builders of the
traditional style.

Bill

I have the same sense of aesthetics as you. But there are plenty of
bikes with horizontal top tubes. Also, chosing the right frame size
and geometry, it is not difficult to get a threadless stem/handlebar
to within an inch or so of the seat.

My 54cm Cannondale CAAD7 has a horiz. top tube and I have the
handlebars about 2-3 cm from the seat height. This is a full on
racing frame and I think it would be even easier to achieve with a
more tour or recreational oriented frame.

One of the keys is to not get sucked into the "err on the small frame
size" thing. And to not overemphasize standover height, because that
can affect drop from seat to handlebars.

I'm not disagreeing at all with your aesthetic preferences - I share
them. I love the look of a quality quill stem on a classic horizontal
framed bike. But I'm pretty happy with the fit of the Cannondale.
One of the things I like about the threadless stem is that when
messing around with fitting when I first got it (used), it was so
simple to experiment with stem lengths and angles. The bike shop
pretty much let me try what I wanted - I don't think it would have
been possible with quill stems.

Quoted post said:

Scott Gordo said:

Where do you ride? "Girls' bikes" have been status quo for at least 6 or 7 years now....

Quoted message said:

Scott-

I ride in a very rural part of upstate NY, I rarely see another
rider. So I don't see a lot of bikes.

I think that giving the consumer choice is usually a good thing. So a
bike buyer could say, for example - could you swap out that black
threadless fork and stem for a silver threaded, I just like the look
better. But that's just not an option today.

Bill

Still, you're on the interweb....

Anyway, you can still find this stuff, but, granted, it's not as easy.
Sounds like you might have gone to the wrong shop. I don't know where
you live, but in NYC there's Trek/Spesh shops, and then there are
local bike shops/greasepits. You want option B.

Scott

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

Last week I had a bit of a problem getting a stuck bottom bracket out,
but eventually I did get it out. At one point I thought I would just
buy a new frame and swap over all the components, or just buy a new
bike. A trip to the bike shop was eye opening for me. Lots of bikes
with sloped top tubes and threadless headsets, not a single one with a
horizontal tt and a nice threaded silver stem. I just don't like the
look of sloped top tubes, long seatposts, black stems and spacers,
and I suppose threadless is ok for a low stem, but I like the bars
about an inch lower than the seat, and the way that is done with
threadless looks ugly to me. So the guy said I could get what I
wanted custom made, looking at about 1500 just for frame and fork. At
that point I decided I really needed to get that bb out, and I did. I
can understand the move to sloping/threadless, but what I can't
understand is the complete abandonment by major builders of the
traditional style.

Sorry. We don't care. We don't have to.
We're the phone company. [snort!]

On topic, buy the custom frame after shopping
for a frame maker that speaks you language.
Hang odd bits on it, and upgrade at your leisure.
For $1500 you can expect personal service.
Or buy a good old 15-35 year old steel frame.
You could buy a whole old bicycle with a good
frame and throw away everything but the frame set
and still have a value.
The enterprise can be fun.

--
Michael Press

Quoted message said:

Last week I had a bit of a problem getting a stuck bottom bracket out,
but eventually I did get it out. At one point I thought I would just
buy a new frame and swap over all the components, or just buy a new
bike. A trip to the bike shop was eye opening for me. Lots of bikes
with sloped top tubes and threadless headsets, not a single one with a
horizontal tt and a nice threaded silver stem. I just don't like the
look of sloped top tubes, long seatposts, black stems and spacers,
and I suppose threadless is ok for a low stem, but I like the bars
about an inch lower than the seat, and the way that is done with
threadless looks ugly to me. So the guy said I could get what I
wanted custom made, looking at about 1500 just for frame and fork. At
that point I decided I really needed to get that bb out, and I did. I
can understand the move to sloping/threadless, but what I can't
understand is the complete abandonment by major builders of the
traditional style.

Style points aside, the sloping top-tube design might be exactly what you
want to get your handlebars high enough. There are essentially two styles of
sloping top-tube bikes. Those that have the top tube slope upward towards a
position similar to a "racing"-style road bike (fairly low), and those that
use the sloping design to gain you an extra inch+ height at the front end
(by sloping up well above what a parallel top-tube bike would typically be).
In Trek language, the lower sloping top-tube bikes are called their
"Pro-fit" geometry, while the taller ones are called "Performance-fit." The
"geometry" and performance/handling is actually identical between the two
(same angles & dimensions) except for the taller front end.

As for threadless stems not looking as nice, guess I've just gotten used to
them. I suspect you will as well, after not that long a time. There are,
finally, some very nice, taller threadless stems on the market, in
particular the Torelli Bornio. Using one of those, you might not need to
have a very tall column underneath the stem (meaning fewer spacer).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com said:

There are horizontal top tubes but the one thing the LBS clone did say
that was right is it will be custom and probably steel(horrors, that
old stuff?) and it will look tremendous, ride like a dream and last
forever..but not of trekspecializedgiantcannondale-esque.

Quoted message said:

Tom Ace said:

When I needed a custom frame I figured it would probably be steel too,
but I ended up getting a Ti frame from Mark Hickey (Habanero Cycles).
His price has gone up a little since then (the dollar has weakened)
but you can still get a custom frame from him, with fork, for less
than $1500. When people ask me why I got a titanium frame, I say
it's because I couldn't find a custom steel one for what I paid.

Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com said:

Waterford custom steel is $1300.

And their 'inbetween' model, Gunnar with custom geometry, only $1075

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Scott Gordo said:

Where do you ride? "Girls' bikes" have been status quo for at least 6 or 7 years now....

Quoted message said:

I ride in a very rural part of upstate NY, I rarely see another
rider. So I don't see a lot of bikes.
I think that giving the consumer choice is usually a good thing. So a
bike buyer could say, for example - could you swap out that black
threadless fork and stem for a silver threaded, I just like the look
better. But that's just not an option today.

News to me.

Still an available option any competent LBS which commonly builds bikes
'to order' or services bicycles.
To say 'the Brand X I saw at Bubba's Bikes is threadless' is not to say
you can't swap forks.

Being 'remote' is not a big deal either. Just shipped one to Diego
Garcia in the south Indian Ocean . . . Upstate NY is faster delivery
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Still an available option any competent LBS which commonly builds bikes
'to order' or services bicycles.
To say 'the Brand X I saw at Bubba's Bikes is threadless' is not to say
you can't swap forks.

--
Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

So you can just swap out the threadless fork for a threaded fork? I
thought they were different sizes 1-1/8" threadless and 1" threaded,
are shims used?

Bill

in article [email hidden],
[email hidden] at [email hidden] wrote on 31/8/07 14:29:

Quoted message said:

So you can just swap out the threadless fork for a threaded fork? I
thought they were different sizes 1-1/8" threadless and 1" threaded,
are shims used?

You can get 1", 1"1/8 and 1"1/4 threadless, and you can get 1" and 1"1/8
threaded forks. Threaded headsets for 1"1/8 forks are quite easy to find
(Google Shimano STX threaded headset for one example).

There are few stems for 1"1/8 threaded steerers- most are mountain styled
and for 25.4mm bars, not road 26mm bars.

However, as you mentioned, you can use a shim to get a stem made for 1"
steerer to fit.

Ben

Quoted post said:

So you can just swap out the threadless fork for a threaded fork? I
thought they were different sizes 1-1/8" threadless and 1" threaded,
are shims used?

My racing bike has a 1" threadless fork. The only shim involved is on
the stem. 1" specific stems are available, but the shim works so well
(I can take the stem off and the shim keeps my headset ajustment) I
prefer to have it.

Ben Micklem said:

You can get 1", 1"1/8 and 1"1/4 threadless, and you can get 1" and 1"1/8
threaded forks. Threaded headsets for 1"1/8 forks are quite easy to find
(Google Shimano STX threaded headset for one example).

There are few stems for 1"1/8 threaded steerers- most are mountain styled
and for 25.4mm bars, not road 26mm bars.

However, as you mentioned, you can use a shim to get a stem made for 1"
steerer to fit.

Ben

When I mentioned using a shim, I was thinking of a sleeve pressed into
the 1-1/8 headtube so that it would work with a 1" threaded fork and
headset.

Bill

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

Still an available option any competent LBS which commonly builds bikes
'to order' or services bicycles.
To say 'the Brand X I saw at Bubba's Bikes is threadless' is not to say
you can't swap forks.

Quoted message said:

So you can just swap out the threadless fork for a threaded fork? I
thought they were different sizes 1-1/8" threadless and 1" threaded,
are shims used?

AH to threaded or oversize AH to threaded, both are straightforward.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Ben Micklem said:

You can get 1", 1"1/8 and 1"1/4 threadless, and you can get 1" and 1"1/8
threaded forks. Threaded headsets for 1"1/8 forks are quite easy to find
(Google Shimano STX threaded headset for one example).
There are few stems for 1"1/8 threaded steerers- most are mountain styled
and for 25.4mm bars, not road 26mm bars.
However, as you mentioned, you can use a shim to get a stem made for 1"
steerer to fit.

Quoted message said:

When I mentioned using a shim, I was thinking of a sleeve pressed into
the 1-1/8 headtube so that it would work with a 1" threaded fork and
headset.

Yes, standard item. There are also headsets with thicker cups expressly
for that

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971