Giro is better without Marco.

I always enjoyed watching Pantani rise out of the saddle while gripping
the drops and attacking a climb. The man had his faults, but don't we
all?

Smokey

I always enjoyed watching Pantani rise out of the saddle while gripping
the drops and attacking a climb. The man had his faults, but don't we
all?

Smokey

"Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

The Giro seems like a much better tour without the antics of a
coked and
doped Pantani, and that shoe salesman, what's his name, Mario the Lion
king. A more serious, and interesting tour.

I can't think of a better cyclist than Pantani in the last decade. If that
frustrates you, just say so.

Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

"Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

The Giro seems like a much better tour without the antics of a
coked and
doped Pantani, and that shoe salesman, what's his name, Mario the Lion
king. A more serious, and interesting tour.

I can't think of a better cyclist than Pantani in the last decade. If that
frustrates you, just say so.

Check it out, a recursive troll.

Unless you're serious. Then I've got to say that I might
agree with you if Marco was a good of a pure climber as
Danielson.

Bob Schwartz

Bob Schwartz <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

"Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

The Giro seems like a much better tour without the antics of a
coked and
doped Pantani, and that shoe salesman, what's his name, Mario the
Lion king. A more serious, and interesting tour.

I can't think of a better cyclist than Pantani in the last decade. If
that frustrates you, just say so.

Check it out, a recursive troll.

Unless you're serious. Then I've got to say that I might
agree with you if Marco was a good of a pure climber as
Danielson.

Bob Schwartz

I've been watching cycling for about ten years now and I've never seen
someone like Pantani. Ofcourse you could claim that Danielson is a pure
climber, but then again it looks like you're admitting you don't even
believe that yourself so I don't see the point.

Callistus Valerius said:

The Giro seems like a much better tour without the antics of a coked and
doped Pantani

dumbass,

this is revisionist douchebaggery. when pantani was winning he was the
most exciting rider for people that watch road racing (which you claim
bores you). it wasn't until later that he fell apart and doping
allegations surfaced.

Quoted message said:

Callistus Valerius said:

The Giro seems like a much better tour without the antics of a coked and
doped Pantani

dumbass,

this is revisionist douchebaggery. when pantani was winning he was the
most exciting rider for people that watch road racing (which you claim
bores you). it wasn't until later that he fell apart and doping
allegations surfaced.

The pirate, or was it dumbo the elephant, before and after the ear jobs,
Pantani bored the hell out of me.

Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

Bob Schwartz <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

"Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

> The Giro seems like a much better tour without the antics of a
> coked and
> doped Pantani, and that shoe salesman, what's his name, Mario the
> Lion king. A more serious, and interesting tour.
>
>
I can't think of a better cyclist than Pantani in the last decade. If
that frustrates you, just say so.

Check it out, a recursive troll.

Unless you're serious. Then I've got to say that I might
agree with you if Marco was a good of a pure climber as
Danielson.

Bob Schwartz

I've been watching cycling for about ten years now and I've never seen
someone like Pantani. Ofcourse you could claim that Danielson is a pure
climber, but then again it looks like you're admitting you don't even
believe that yourself so I don't see the point.

Well, you said best in the last decade. If you don't count
musseuw and cipo and jan and jaja and... oh yeah, lance
then I suppose you could make a case for MARCO. But I think
you need some pretty powerful drugs first.

If MARCO was the best he wouldn't have needed jan, who is
not the best in the last decade, who was not at his best in
1998, to implode in order to have won the Tour that year.

Bob Schwartz

Quoted message said:

Callistus Valerius said:

The Giro seems like a much better tour without the antics of a coked and
doped Pantani

dumbass,

this is revisionist douchebaggery. when pantani was winning he was the
most exciting rider for people that watch road racing (which you claim
bores you). it wasn't until later that he fell apart and doping
allegations surfaced.

What's a little revisionist history? It's a popular thing these days.
They were both incredible showmen in their own ways, and everyone was
always waiting for them to move when it was their type of stage, or
race. If you look at racing from a folklorist viewpoint both of them,
but especially Pantani will grow as time goes on IMO.
I'm sure you agree that's it's very possible to detest the doping and
cheating, but still love the myth as it occurred and is being
remembered.
If anything I'm more fascinated with Pantani now than I was then,
because then he was just a great racer and not a great human tragedy.
Cipo was bigger than life then but, from the standpoint of becoming an
icon, has continued to live and will fade just as Merckx has. James
Dean, Jim Morrison, Marilyn Monroe really gained by going out young as
opposed to, say Elvis who really lived long enough to leave an ugly
image too. I think Ali is one of the few who have avoided diminishing.
Even though he's physically limited, he really still seems to project
an incredible aura.
Bill C

Bob Schwartz <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

Bob Schwartz <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Jonathan v.d. Sluis wrote:
> "Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in
> news:[email hidden]:
>
>> The Giro seems like a much better tour without the antics of a
>> coked and
>> doped Pantani, and that shoe salesman, what's his name, Mario the
>> Lion king. A more serious, and interesting tour.
>>
>>
> I can't think of a better cyclist than Pantani in the last decade.
> If that frustrates you, just say so.
Check it out, a recursive troll.

Unless you're serious. Then I've got to say that I might
agree with you if Marco was a good of a pure climber as
Danielson.

Bob Schwartz

I've been watching cycling for about ten years now and I've never
seen someone like Pantani. Ofcourse you could claim that Danielson is
a pure climber, but then again it looks like you're admitting you
don't even believe that yourself so I don't see the point.

Well, you said best in the last decade. If you don't count
musseuw and cipo and jan and jaja and... oh yeah, lance

None of them won the way that Pantani did. I think it was Jacques Goddet
who said it about Coppi - the greatest champions can be recognized by
the way they win. Museeuw, Cipollini and Jalabert all would have wished
they could do what Pantani did and as regards Armstrong - well, ofcourse
the system Armstrong/Bruyneel/US Postal functioned better than the
system Pantani/Martinelli/Mercatone Uno. But in the case of Pantani, you
saw a man win rather than a system.

Quoted message said:

then I suppose you could make a case for MARCO. But I think
you need some pretty powerful drugs first.

If MARCO was the best he wouldn't have needed jan, who is
not the best in the last decade, who was not at his best in
1998, to implode in order to have won the Tour that year.

The most amazing thing was Pantani's explosion, attacking in a way that
we haven't seen since.

Jonathan.

Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

well, ofcourse
the system Armstrong/Bruyneel/US Postal functioned better than the
system Pantani/Martinelli/Mercatone Uno. But in the case of Pantani, you
saw a man win rather than a system.

what makes that distinction ? this is squishy sentimentality. armstrong
is not a man but rather a "system" ? since when ?

Quoted message said:

The most amazing thing was Pantani's explosion, attacking in a way that
we haven't seen since.

yes, but it's appraent that his domination was due to effective doping.
with saiz getting busted armstrong is looking more and more like the
boy scout of the GT riders of his time.

amit said:

yes, but it's appraent that his domination was due to effective doping.
with saiz getting busted armstrong is looking more and more like the
boy scout of the GT riders of his time.

Or at least better organized and more competent at that too as a team.
Bill C

Quoted message said:

I think Ali is one of the few who have avoided diminishing.
Even though he's physically limited, he really still seems to project
an incredible aura.
Bill C

Eh?

Merckx most definitely hasn't faded away. He is still an icon and
celebrity in Belgium. Now he might not speak english so you miss out on
it in you r American universe, but Mr Merckx is doing fine indeed.

And if you want sportsman who didnt fade away I can equal, maybe even
outdo Ali just looking at soccer: Pele, Johan Cruijff, Rummenigge,
Beckenbauer.

Some other sportsmen that come to mind: Anton Geesink, Kneteman.

IMHO, the truly great sportsman don't fade away. Their after sports
career can be just as amazing.

Tuschinski said:

And if you want sportsman who didnt fade away I can equal, maybe even
outdo Ali just looking at soccer: Pele, Johan Cruijff, Rummenigge,
Beckenbauer.

Some other sportsmen that come to mind: Anton Geesink, Kneteman.

IMHO, the truly great sportsman don't fade away. Their after sports
career can be just as amazing.

George Best

Tuschinski said:

Quoted message said:

I think Ali is one of the few who have avoided diminishing.
Even though he's physically limited, he really still seems to project
an incredible aura.
Bill C

Eh?

Merckx most definitely hasn't faded away. He is still an icon and
celebrity in Belgium. Now he might not speak english so you miss out on
it in you r American universe, but Mr Merckx is doing fine indeed.

And if you want sportsman who didnt fade away I can equal, maybe even
outdo Ali just looking at soccer: Pele, Johan Cruijff, Rummenigge,
Beckenbauer.

Some other sportsmen that come to mind: Anton Geesink, Kneteman.

IMHO, the truly great sportsman don't fade away. Their after sports
career can be just as amazing.

I think that's because Europe has more time, and regard, for
tradition. Here in the states it's "what have you done for me in the
last 5 minutes?". I can think of a few here who went into politics, a
bunch into broadcasting, but I can't think of any who haven't really
diminished. Jim Brown might be close, he's had a rough personal life,
but he quit on top and has really worked his ass off helping people.:
http://www.amer-i-can.org/
Bill C

"Geraard Spergen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tuschinski said:

And if you want sportsman who didnt fade away I can equal, maybe even
outdo Ali just looking at soccer: Pele, Johan Cruijff, Rummenigge,
Beckenbauer.

Some other sportsmen that come to mind: Anton Geesink, Kneteman.

IMHO, the truly great sportsman don't fade away. Their after sports
career can be just as amazing.

George Best

Famous for being the brother of a Beatle?

(just kidding)

"Geraard Spergen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tuschinski said:

And if you want sportsman who didnt fade away I can equal, maybe even
outdo Ali just looking at soccer: Pele, Johan Cruijff, Rummenigge,
Beckenbauer.

Some other sportsmen that come to mind: Anton Geesink, Kneteman.

IMHO, the truly great sportsman don't fade away. Their after sports
career can be just as amazing.

George Best

Who had the reputation as a better partyer, Best or Barry Sheene?

In article <tFrdg.205372$5Z.93359@dukeread02>, "Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Geraard Spergen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tuschinski said:

And if you want sportsman who didnt fade away I can equal, maybe even
outdo Ali just looking at soccer: Pele, Johan Cruijff, Rummenigge,
Beckenbauer.

Some other sportsmen that come to mind: Anton Geesink, Kneteman.

IMHO, the truly great sportsman don't fade away. Their after sports
career can be just as amazing.

George Best

Who had the reputation as a better partyer, Best or Barry Sheene?

I'd say Best was more well known to the general public than Sheene, so his rep is
probably greater. Sheene's reputation was pretty amazing, though. Sheene and Rocket
Ron Haslam...

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Geraard Spergen said:

George Best

The patron saint of the livedrunk(tm) movement.