Getting pegs into hard ground

Judith said:

I meant to ask this question before my winter camping trip
...... but I didn't go.

Neither did I. And that should read "trips" not "trip". Ah
well, there's always next winter.

Quoted message said:

I have a Hilleberg Akto and it is essential that I can peg
the ends out - otherwise it can't stand up. During the
Spring/Autumn I can get the pegs into the ground because
the ground is always wet.

However, in the places I camp (Snowdonia + English
Lakes usually) is the ground likely to freeze in the
colder months?

No.

Quoted message said:

If so, would you expect that I could get the pegs in using
a stone to hit them?

At worst it may get a bit frosty but I've never had any
trouble getting pegs in during the winter months. Even when
I camp in the snow I can still get the pegs into the soil
below. I think you'd need very cold temperatures to really
freeze the ground solid. Maybe Scotland is different but
I've never had any problems in Wales.

Quoted message said:

I know the Akto is (sometimes) called a 4-season tent but
I wonder whether a "better" winter tent has a snow skirt
that can be weighed down with stones (or snow!) and a
frame so that it is free-standing.

Again, I don't think that's necessary. Snow skirts are only
required for really serious winter conditions. My first tent
had them and suffered terribly from condensation. A bit of
airflow is much better, even in the winter. I've never
worried about the draught, even in the snow. The inside of a
tent is not a windy place to be, the flysheet keeps most of
the wind at bay and the inner protects you from the rest. I
really wouldn't worry about it.

As for free-standing, I doubt you'd need that. If the worst
came to the worst you could hold it down with a few rocks,
or more likely blocks of
ice.

Quoted message said:

[I've only used my Argos tent once. It was last summer and
I was camped in a heavily compacted clay field........ I
had to buy a mallet!]

That's just tough soil, you can get that at any time of
year. The most likely problem you'll encounter in the hills
is not frozen soil but thin soil with a layer of rock an
inch under the surface.

Paul
--
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In article <[email hidden]>,
Judith <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I meant to ask this question before my winter camping trip
...... but I didn't go.

I have a Hilleberg Akto and it is essential that I can peg
the ends out - otherwise it can't stand up. During the
Spring/Autumn I can get the pegs into the ground because
the ground is always wet.

However, in the places I camp (Snowdonia + English Lakes
usually) is the ground likely to freeze in the colder
months? If so, would you expect that I could get the pegs
in using a stone to hit them?

Well it depends. Ground with a high moisture content at or
just below the surface may freeze fairly solid so you will
find it hard to get the pegs in. Ground with less moisture
(thick vegetation which has a lot of roots) will not
freeze as solid.

Unless it is a severe frost or you are camping high you
probably won't find it too much of a problem. And if there
is snow it insulates the ground below so it is not as frozen
as it might otherwise be.

Quoted message said:

I know the Akto is (sometimes) called a 4-season tent but I
wonder whether a "better" winter tent has a snow skirt that
can be weighed down with stones (or snow!) and a frame so
that it is free-standing.

Well there will be tents better suited to real winter
conditions but would you want to carry them in addition to
the extra stuff you will be carrying in winter anyway?

Quoted message said:

[I've only used my Argos tent once. It was last summer and
I was camped in a heavily compacted clay field........ I
had to buy a mallet!]

Both times I have used mine have been on the peat of the
Dark Peak where peg placements have been a doddle. I do
like the discreet shade of green so that I am not easily
noticed ;-)

--

dscs.demon.co.ukdscs.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

Brian <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Paul, what sort of tent pegs would you recommend? Would it
be advisable to take extra pegs of a different type
suitable for different soil?

My last camping trip (up at Loch Lednock resevior) resulted
in lots of bent pegs!

Ice screws?
:-)
--
Gordon

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:c8ln5t$e2m$1
@news8.svr.pol.co.uk:

Quoted message said:

That's just tough soil, you can get that at any time of
year. The most likely problem you'll encounter in the
hills is not frozen soil but thin soil with a layer of
rock an inch under the surface.

Paul, what sort of tent pegs would you recommend? Would it
be advisable to take extra pegs of a different type suitable
for different soil?

My last camping trip (up at Loch Lednock resevior) resulted
in lots of bent pegs!

--
brian

Brian said:

Paul, what sort of tent pegs would you recommend? Would it
be advisable to take extra pegs of a different type
suitable for different soil?

To be honest I've never really had a problem. My biggest
problem has been pushing the pegs in almost horizontally
because of thin soil. Sometimes necessary to lay the peg out
flat on the grass and place a rock on it.

Quoted message said:

My last camping trip (up at Loch Lednock resevior)
resulted in lots of bent pegs!

As I said, frozen ground may be a problem in Scotland where
lower sub-zero temperatures are typically encountered. In
Wales it rarely drops below -5 degrees. Coldest I've ever
camped in was -10 and even then I had no problem pegging
out the tent.

So I can't really recommend any pegs specifically suited to
cold weather. With regard to Hilleberg though, I notice that
their pegs are of the lightweight variety, so perhaps it
would be better to take standard cheapy cast-iron pegs in
very cold weather. At least if you bend them it doesn't
matter much.

Paul
--
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Judith said:

However, in the places I camp (Snowdonia + English Lakes
usually) is the ground likely to freeze in the colder
months? If so, would you expect that I could get the pegs
in using a stone to hit them?

I know the Akto is (sometimes) called a 4-season tent but
I wonder whether a "better" winter tent has a snow skirt
that can be weighed down with stones (or snow!) and a
frame so that it is free-standing.

First up, skewers are easier to get into difficult ground
than the V stakes Hilleberg supply (though Vs are better in
soft/dry ground, have a selection of peg sets is a Cunning
Plan). You can buy add-on valances that attach to the
pegging points. Terra Nova do some, though I think you could
add them to anything. I have some Saunders ones ("Storm
Riders"😉 but I don't think they do them any more.

You should also be able to get valances retro-fitted by a
good tent-repair place, though clip on ones for the
pegging points mean you're not stuck with them when you
don't want them.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

In message <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

You should also be able to get valances retro-fitted by a
good tent-repair place, though clip on ones for the
pegging points mean you're not stuck with them when you
don't want them.

Wouldn't that cost more than the Argos tent purchase? Could
have two tents - one with valances and one without, though.

--
Martin Richardson
239/284 Munros - 15% to go 34/34 'Furths' & 439/439 Nuttalls
- 0% to go
240/89 Donalds - 53% to go 0/? Himalayans - 100% to go
241/1552 Marilyns - 72% to go

Quoted message said:

However, in the places I camp (Snowdonia + English Lakes
usually) is the ground likely to freeze in the colder
months? If so, would you expect that I could get the pegs
in using a stone to hit them?

If you start bashing the pegs, they are going to bend. I
always take a sheath knife with me, which doubles as a 'u-dig-
it' trowel, eating knife and on one occasion, a hole poker
for tent pegs in frozen ground. Did the trick beautifully,
just place the peg where you want it to go, and press the
knife in behind it. Goes in like, well - a knife through
frozen ground. The narrow cut still allows the angled pegs
to grip as they still need to be firmly pushed in.

Quoted message said:

I know the Akto is (sometimes) called a 4-season tent but
I wonder whether a "better" winter tent has a snow skirt
that can be weighed down with stones (or snow!) and a
frame so that it is free-standing.

There probably is 'better' around, but not at the weight and
cost of the Akto. No tent is going to keep you basking warm
in a howling gale in sub zero temperatures. However a good
quality tent can minimise the amount of through draft and
with it loss of warmed air, which the Akto does admirably.

Steve Jones

Steve Jones said:

No tent is going to keep you basking warm in a howling
gale in sub zero temperatures.

Oh stop it! You're making me long for winter now!

Paul
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