Getting gimped on 14% climbs

"thedudeinthehat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So,

I know it is supposed to be the done thing to ride with a double chain-
ring on ur lighter road bikes- but.....

have u tried any big hill climbs wif that???

im still gimped 2 days after a messsy one in the wicklows...

so, what is the solution???

After doing a short climb mapped at 7% -> 5% a mate had to take 2 days off
work (he was working as a porter in a warehouse at the time) unfortuiantely
as I was working in an office I had to walk aroudn funny for the same amount
of time.

Yes that was on Doubles, haven't tried it on the tourer.

Niall

thedudeinthehat said:

So,

I know it is supposed to be the done thing to ride with a double chain-
ring on ur lighter road bikes- but.....

Is it? Why on earth would anyone want to do that? The bottom gear on
mine, a Tiagra triple, is about right. I couldn't imagine trying some of
the hills round here with a double ring.

Quoted message said:

have u tried any big hill climbs wif that???

I'm sufficiently used to the unsuitable gearing on my old Raleigh hybrid
to know that it wouldn't be a good idea. Indeed, that's much of the
reason why I pretty much gave up cycling, an activity I love, for
several years.

Cheers,
Luke

--
Lincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET)
Swansea City 2-2 Southend United
We went up twice with Tilly and Brush

I'm putting slicks on my mountain bike for the Alps & Pyrenees during le
Tour this year - try & make it more of a holiday using lower gears.. I
suffered a lot on my road bike last year

thedudeinthehat said:

So,

I know it is supposed to be the done thing to ride with a double chain-
ring on ur lighter road bikes- but.....

have u tried any big hill climbs wif that???

im still gimped 2 days after a messsy one in the wicklows...

so, what is the solution???

do people eventually "get strong enough" to churn a double over these
kinda % climbs-

or is it after broken chains and ankles that u humbly go to your LBS,
tail between legs and get a triple..

or is it all a bit macho?

Finally, is it pricey to get conversion- i heard that with ace ultegra
(shimano?) u need to change rear and front mechs, front shifter,
brakes etc, ?

can you just change smaller ring for an even smaller one?

thedudeinthehat said:

So,

I know it is supposed to be the done thing to ride with a double chain-
ring on ur lighter road bikes- but.....

have u tried any big hill climbs wif that???

im still gimped 2 days after a messsy one in the wicklows...

so, what is the solution???

do people eventually "get strong enough" to churn a double over these
kinda % climbs-

or is it after broken chains and ankles that u humbly go to your LBS,
tail between legs and get a triple..

or is it all a bit macho?

Finally, is it pricey to get conversion- i heard that with ace ultegra
(shimano?) u need to change rear and front mechs, front shifter,
brakes etc, ?

can you just change smaller ring for an even smaller one?

Definitely pointless macho behaviour plays a part in it. 53 39 doubles
aren't a nice things to climb with. Triples can have a mediocre shift,
athough the ratios are well catered for. I have a compact, and with a
biggest cog on the rear cassette of 27 or 28, you are getting the same
gear inches as most triples anyway. Typically you can use the same
front derailleur and just lower it a bit.

thedudeinthehat said:

So,

I know it is supposed to be the done thing to ride with a double chain-
ring on ur lighter road bikes- but.....

have u tried any big hill climbs wif that???

im still gimped 2 days after a messsy one in the wicklows...

so, what is the solution???

do people eventually "get strong enough" to churn a double over these
kinda % climbs-

or is it after broken chains and ankles that u humbly go to your LBS,
tail between legs and get a triple..

Well obviously yes if you can't do it with a double. With a triple you
can always forego the pleasure of the lowest gears if you really want
to be macho, but you need the lower gears to build up your strength if
that's what you want.
I had to get off on Winnats Pass a few weeks ago (bottom gear on Dawes
galaxy whatever it is) but that was due to blustery head wind stopping
me dead. Had just done Snake pass but that's easy.

cheers
Jacob

thedudeinthehat said:

So,

I know it is supposed to be the done thing to ride with a double chain-
ring on ur lighter road bikes- but.....

have u tried any big hill climbs wif that???

im still gimped 2 days after a messsy one in the wicklows...

Buy yourself a 70" Fixed and spend six months riding up and down hills
with it. You won't worry so much then...

Chris Smith said:

Buy yourself a 70" Fixed and spend six months riding up and down hills
with it. You won't worry so much then...

Well said, it's not so much about the gearing, as about your power/
weight ratio and fitness.

in message <[email hidden]>,

thedudeinthehat (') said:

So,

I know it is supposed to be the done thing to ride with a double chain-
ring on ur lighter road bikes- but.....

Do they speak English where you come from?

Quoted message said:

have u tried any big hill climbs wif that???

Yes. Since I have doubles on all my road bikes, and live in big hill
country, I do it regularly.

Quoted message said:

im still gimped 2 days after a messsy one in the wicklows...

so, what is the solution???

If your gears don't suit you, choose gears which do. I currently run 53/39
on the front, 13/25 on the back. I've got my bikes set up so I can use a
13-29 cassette, but I haven't yet found the need to. On really steep hills
I could use a lower gear, but that's not common (if it was I'd fix it).
One way of getting a lower gear is to use a 'compact double' (50/36 or
similar) on the front, but of course this doesn't widen the range, it just
moves all your ratios down, so you will spin out sooner on descents.

Quoted message said:

do people eventually "get strong enough" to churn a double over these
kinda % climbs-

I don't think it's strength. I'm not in the least a strong person. I think
it's rhythm, philosophy, and a sort of zen state of mind. You get into the
climb, and all you're doing is climbing. All you're doing is thinking a
turbine, keeping your legs turning smoothly. You're not thinking about how
far it is to the top, or how long it has taken, or who is climbing faster
than you. Even when you're out of the saddle, pedal smoothly, don't mash;
it takes far less effort to keep the bike climbing smoothly than to
accelerate it on every downstroke, only to have the bike slow down again
as the crank comes vertical and you have to accelerate it again on the
next downstroke. Be a turbine. Never be a piston.

Quoted message said:

or is it after broken chains and ankles that u humbly go to your LBS,
tail between legs and get a triple..

Never broken a chain.

Quoted message said:

or is it all a bit macho?

Some people say so; I'd reject any accusation of being macho. The classic
double chainring transmission lies in the continuum between the purist
fixed gear single speed and the triple. For me triples are ugly and
cumbersome, and doubles are more elegant; and (for me) cycling is a lot
about aesthetics. Not simply the aesthetics of how things look, but also
of how they work. Fixies are gorgeously pure of course, but for me they
are a bit macho.

Quoted message said:

Finally, is it pricey to get conversion- i heard that with ace ultegra
(shimano?) u need to change rear and front mechs, front shifter,
brakes etc, ?

You need to change the chainset and you usually need to change the bottom
bracket. DuraAce does indeed have different front shifters for double and
triple setups, but I can't see any reason why the 'triple' shifter should
not work with a double chain ring.

Quoted message said:

can you just change smaller ring for an even smaller one?

Within limits, yes, you can.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

For office use only. Please do not write or type below this line.

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>,

thedudeinthehat (') said:

So,

Quoted message said:

I know it is supposed to be the done thing to ride with a double chain-
ring on ur lighter road bikes- but.....

Do they speak English where you come from?

a diluted garrison form

Anyway,

thank you for the very comprehensive reply.....

only one thing for it

Zen...

The mp3 player and the ease of doing things

ill get back to ya after a few weeks of this and see how zenfully I
climbed

thedudeinthehat said:

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>,

thedudeinthehat (') said:

So,

Quoted message said:

I know it is supposed to be the done thing to ride with a double chain-
ring on ur lighter road bikes- but.....

Quoted message said:

thank you for the very comprehensive reply.....

only one thing for it

Zen...

The mp3 player and the ease of doing things

ill get back to ya after a few weeks of this and see how zenfully I
climbed

Don't forget that for every Lucien Van Impe there is a Sean Kelly.
Also I think Robert Millar once said something along the lines of the
climbers suffer just as much as the autobus, it's just that they are
going uphill rather faster.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Simon Brooke said:

Quoted message said:

do people eventually "get strong enough" to churn a double over these
kinda % climbs-

I don't think it's strength. I'm not in the least a strong person. I think
it's rhythm, philosophy, and a sort of zen state of mind.

Completely agree. There are hills I find difficult on my own that I breeze
up with other people to distract me on the way up. Not fast enough that
drafting makes any difference, just a different frame of mind.

Basically, I think the pitfall is to let your cadence get too low. For a
given gearing I often find it is easier to go up a bit faster than to slow
right down.

in message <[email hidden]>, Jim Higson

(') said:

Simon Brooke said:

Quoted message said:

do people eventually "get strong enough" to churn a double over these
kinda % climbs-

I don't think it's strength. I'm not in the least a strong person. I
think it's rhythm, philosophy, and a sort of zen state of mind.

Completely agree. There are hills I find difficult on my own that I
breeze up with other people to distract me on the way up. Not fast enough
that drafting makes any difference, just a different frame of mind.

Basically, I think the pitfall is to let your cadence get too low. For a
given gearing I often find it is easier to go up a bit faster than to
slow right down.

Agreed. Obviously, at some point you hit the limits of your strength for
the gears you've got, and that's when you really have to concentrate on
keeping smooth. And if it happens too often, get smaller chainrings!

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
; ... of course nothing said here will be taken notice of by
; the W3C. The official place to be ignored is on www-style or
; www-html. -- George Lund

Ekul Namsob said:

thedudeinthehat said:

So,

I know it is supposed to be the done thing to ride with a double chain-
ring on ur lighter road bikes- but.....

Is it? Why on earth would anyone want to do that? The bottom gear on
mine, a Tiagra triple, is about right. I couldn't imagine trying some of
the hills round here with a double ring.

Quoted message said:

where i'm from no, though where i live now the hills that do exist
aren't that high and the roads not that steep. so on mountain bike
gearing you simply don't touch the granny ring, i spend most of my time
in the top ring, going from 4th to 7th gear.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have u tried any big hill climbs wif that???

I'm sufficiently used to the unsuitable gearing on my old Raleigh hybrid
to know that it wouldn't be a good idea. Indeed, that's much of the
reason why I pretty much gave up cycling, an activity I love, for
several years.

certianly having the option to just let the gears take you up is a very
good idea.

Quoted message said:

Cheers,
Luke

roger

Quoting thedudeinthehat <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I know it is supposed to be the done thing to ride with a double chain-
ring on ur lighter road bikes- but.....

Ewww. This is Usenet, not a text message, not that I write text messages
like that either.

The weight of the bike doesn't make a lot of difference - if the bike's a
kilogram lighter, that's a whole 1% of the bike and rider. The weight of
the luggage does make a bit of difference.

What really makes a difference, though, is whether the inner ring is a 42?
A 39? A 34 on a compact double? And what's the largest rear sprocket? My
lowest gear on a double setup is as low as many road triple setups offer.

However, for a given hill, it's just as much work no matter what the gear
for a given speed. The question is whether you can restrain yourself to
turn the pedals very slowly, or if a high gear means a high speed and more
power output. If the former, you don't need a big bag of gears.
--
OPTIONS=name:Kirsty,menustyle:C,female,lit_corridor,standout,time,showexp,hilit
e_pet,catname:Akane,dogname:Ryoga,fruit:okonomiyaki,pickup_types:"!$?=/,scores:
5 top/2 around,color,boulder:0,autoquiver,autodig,disclose:yiyayvygyc,pickup_bu
rden:burdened,!cmdassist,msg_window:reversed,!sparkle,horsename:Rumiko,showrace

David Damerell said:

Quoting thedudeinthehat <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I know it is supposed to be the done thing to ride with a double chain-
ring on ur lighter road bikes- but.....

Ewww. This is Usenet, not a text message, not that I write text messages
like that either.

google groups, i know some folk kill file for that which does seem a bit
sweeping...

Quoted message said:

The weight of the bike doesn't make a lot of difference - if the bike's a
kilogram lighter, that's a whole 1% of the bike and rider. The weight of
the luggage does make a bit of difference.

What really makes a difference, though, is whether the inner ring is a 42?
A 39? A 34 on a compact double? And what's the largest rear sprocket? My
lowest gear on a double setup is as low as many road triple setups offer.

However, for a given hill, it's just as much work no matter what the gear
for a given speed. The question is whether you can restrain yourself to
turn the pedals very slowly, or if a high gear means a high speed and more
power output. If the former, you don't need a big bag of gears.

roger

in message <[email hidden]>, David Damerell

(') said:

Quoting thedudeinthehat <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I know it is supposed to be the done thing to ride with a double chain-
ring on ur lighter road bikes- but.....

Ewww. This is Usenet, not a text message, not that I write text messages
like that either.

The weight of the bike doesn't make a lot of difference - if the bike's a
kilogram lighter, that's a whole 1% of the bike and rider. The weight of
the luggage does make a bit of difference.

Look, I know that seems logical, buy it isn't what people experience in
practice. I know I climb a lot better on a bike that's a kilo lighter. I
think a hundred grammes off the bike is in practice worth at least 500
grammes off the rider, perhaps more. Why this should be I'm not certain,
but the dynamics of a bike and rider climbing a hill are not
straightforward.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; First they came for the asylum seekers,
;; and I did not speak out because I was not an asylum seeker.
;; Then they came for the gypsies,
;; and I did not speak out because I was not a gypsy...
;; Pastor Martin Niemöller, translated by Michael Howard.

Simon Brooke said:

Quoted message said:

The weight of the bike doesn't make a lot of difference - if the bike's a
kilogram lighter, that's a whole 1% of the bike and rider. The weight of
the luggage does make a bit of difference.

Look, I know that seems logical, buy it isn't what people experience in
practice. I know I climb a lot better on a bike that's a kilo lighter. I
think a hundred grammes off the bike is in practice worth at least 500
grammes off the rider, perhaps more. Why this should be I'm not certain,
but the dynamics of a bike and rider climbing a hill are not
straightforward.

Imo comparing variations in equipment weight to variations in rider
weight can only cause confusion. For example it requires taking into
account what percentage of the rider's weight is muscle, fat etc. To
keep a discussion on bike weight useful the rider has to be assumed as a
constant.

If I'm honest then I have to admit that when measured in time the
difference in my climbing ability when I started using a 13kg bike
instead of a 23kg bike was clearly noticeable, but not huge. There is
imo a psychology aspect to it, it did /feel/ like it made a bigger
difference.

And let's not forget that having spent £££ on a more expensive bike
people /want/ to believe that it makes a significant difference. It
would certainly make them feel lighter, if only in the wallet :-)

--
Membrane

Good natural athletes who've light and fit can get up nasty climbs
with doubles.

Otherwise triples are in order, and are much easier on back etc.

I've toured extensively in Alps and Pyrenees with friends and we all
use triples. We are just ordinary average Joe Soaps athletically.

We are often amused by seeing continental cyclists torturing
themselves grinding slowly up these climbs in doubles, standing up all
the way and shagging their backs, all because of machismo.