Get on the cycle path!

J said:

Is Telford some kind of cycling mecca? If there are that many cyclists there maybe I
should move 🙂

There's only one solitary and selfish one, it would appear...

--
Jim Price

jimprice.dsl.pipex.comjimprice.dsl.pipex.comOpen ↗

Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.

Aye!.

Tony W said:

"we often have long lines of traffic caused by one solitary, selfish cyclist".

Perhaps Mr. Crosby is one of those twots who is unable to judge the width of his vehicle with
sufficient accuracy safely to overtake a bicycle. I've lost count of the number of times dithering
idiots have followed me down Ferry Lane, which is wide enough for trucks to overtake a cyclist
without impinging significantly into the other lane.

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

"J" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Read the comments at news.bbc.co.uk3056452.stmOpen ↗ by "James Crosby,
Telford, Shropshire".

Been there, done that. My response surely won't make it onto the page (my sucess rate is under 30%
these days) but here it is anyway:

I congratulate James Crosby on his masterly analysis of the problem: clearly a brief delay caused by
a slower-moving vehicle is far more significant than the huge delays caused by too many cars on the
roads (a situation which the cyclist can't possibly be trying to improve). Mr Crosby would clearly
prefer one more car in the jam in front of him.

Of course, the problem of vehicles being unable to get round cyclists without taking risks is
ameliorated by the fact that cycles are vehicles, not that the risk deters many drivers from
overtaking anyway in my experience.

I am also delighted to hear that Telford has a network of safe cycle paths - it will be well worth
studying these unique facilities. Cycle paths are typically between three and seven times as
dangerous as riding on the roads, despite the best efforts of speeding and inattentive drivers to
redress the balance.

I can, however, offer one tip which will apparently save Mr Crosby considerable money and
inconvenience: if you match the little black numbers in the red circles by the roadside with the
number the needle thingy points to on your dashboard, the cameras stop going off. You can find out
all about it at www.highwaycode.gov.uk.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗

you know? said:

I can, however, offer one tip which will apparently save Mr Crosby considerable money and
inconvenience: if you match the little black numbers in the red circles by the roadside with the
number the needle thingy points to on your dashboard, the cameras stop going off. You can find out
all about it at www.highwaycode.gov.uk.

That part was particularly brilliant!

--
Daniel Auger - [email hidden] (Please remove Granta to get a valid address.)

J said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

d) She makes up the highway code as she goes along.

I think Guy's already mentioned this as one of his options: "a) she is just a clueless cager ..."

Read the comments at news.bbc.co.uk3056452.stmOpen ↗ by "James Crosby,
Telford, Shropshire". Aparantly all the congestion in Telford is caused by cyclists using the road
instead of the cycle paths.

Is Telford some kind of cycling mecca? If there are that many cyclists there maybe I should move 🙂

Hi John

I did. My suspcions are correct. There is more than one clueless cager in this green and
tarmaced land.

To give the guy (no, Guy, not you) a break for a moment I can just about sympathise with him.
Being stuck behind a solitary cycle for a few seconds must be extremely annoying. Indeed, in my
driving days, I was stuck behind a slow-moving bike roughly once every five years. OTOH, being
stuck behind a caravan or a tractor - or, vice versa, being tailgated by a repmobile - happened
slightly more often.

James Crosby: a man who doesn't know the width of his own car.

Regarding JC's comments, I have yet to be given a sensible answer as to why all road taxes cannot be
lumped into the price of petrol. Garage forecort signs showing the %age of petrol price versus the
%age of tax would be useful of course.

James

--
homepage.ntlworld.comDscf0632.jpgOpen ↗

In message <[email hidden]>, James Hodson
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I have yet to be given a sensible answer as to why all road taxes cannot be lumped into the price
of petrol.

Could it be that the process of collecting VED means you have to provide your insurance and MOT
documentation and thereby is an ideal means of ensuring that you have these? Just an idea.
--
Michael MacClancy

Steve Peake said:

you know? said:

But There May Be Other Possibilites. Your guesses?

d) She makes up the highway code as she goes along.

Or maybe not: the current highway code makes quite sobering reading

Taken from highwaycode.gov.uk03.shtmlOpen ↗, rules for cyclists:

47: Use cycle routes when practicable. They can make your journey safer.

48: Cycle Lanes. These are marked by a white line (which may be broken) along the carriageway
(see Rule 119). Keep within the lane wherever possible.

Ouch. Not even 'Keep within the lane whenever safe.' Interestingly I'm pretty sure my book version
of the code, which is a few years older, says...

49: Use cycle routes when practicable. They can make your journey _quicker and_ safer.

True, it advocates lots of sensible things, like avoiding car doors and drain covers. Presumably it
self destructs when you meet cycle lanes immediately next to parking spaces, and the like.

Quoted message said:

This is becoming more of a problem, I'm wondering if its worth asking the department of transport
alter the highway code to try and give people a clue somehow, or maybe encourage councils to add
an "optional cycle path" sign to every daft patch of tarmac they lay.

Sounds worthwhile to me.

KW

Kit Wolf said:

47: Use cycle routes when practicable. They can make your journey safer.

This refers to tne NCN, I assume (cycle route rather than track or lane). I would say "Cycle routes
(such as the National Cycle Network) can make your journey safer and more pleasant."

Quoted message said:

49: Cycle Lanes. These are marked by a white line (which may be broken) along the carriageway
(see Rule 119). Keep within the lane wherever possible.

Quite.

Also under Clothing:

Clothing. You should wear
- a cycle helmet which conforms to current regulations

I am writing to them to ask for the list of regulations which apply to polystyrene foam deflector
beanies. I am not even aware of any legally recognised standards, let alone regulations.

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗ Advance
notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP. Obviously there will be a week of downtime
between the engineer removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same equipment on
the same line in the same exchange and billing it to the new ISP.

On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:39:10 +0100 someone who may be "Kit Wolf" <[email hidden]>
wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Taken from highwaycode.gov.uk03.shtmlOpen ↗, rules for cyclists:

47: Use cycle routes when practicable. They can make your journey safer.

If they don't make your journey safer then is it practicable to use them?

Quoted message said:

49: Cycle Lanes. These are marked by a white line (which may be broken) along the carriageway
(see Rule 119). Keep within the lane wherever possible.

If it is not possible to keep within the lane safely then it is not possible to keep within the lane
safely. See Cyclecraft on proper positioning.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

Michael MacClancy <[email hidden]> wrote in news:EYG6gNOiuDD
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>, James Hodson
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I have yet to be given a sensible answer as to why all road taxes cannot be lumped into the price
of petrol.

Could it be that the process of collecting VED means you have to provide your insurance and MOT
documentation and thereby is an ideal means of ensuring that you have these? Just an idea.

You could combine the Swiss style vignette (for driving on motorways) and the Australian scheme
which I believe requires all vehicles to display a sticker which proves they have the minimum 3rd
part insurance. The advantage of the former is that you can buy them at many (all?) filling
stations. If everyone had fixed price 3rd party insurance they could then chose to purchase "top up"
comprehensive policies.

I must admit I don't know how, or even if, Australia takes into account higher risk drivers, but
I'll find out later this year when I emmigrate!

Have fun!

Graeme

Graeme said:

Michael MacClancy <[email hidden]> wrote in news:EYG6gNOiuDD
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>, James Hodson
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I have yet to be given a sensible answer as to why all road taxes cannot be lumped into the price
of petrol.

Could it be that the process of collecting VED means you have to provide your insurance and MOT
documentation and thereby is an ideal means of ensuring that you have these? Just an idea.

You could combine the Swiss style vignette (for driving on motorways) and the Australian scheme
which I believe requires all vehicles to display a sticker which proves they have the minimum 3rd
part insurance. The advantage of the former is that you can buy them at many (all?) filling
stations. If everyone had fixed price 3rd party insurance they could then chose to purchase "top
up" comprehensive policies.

Quoted message said:

I must admit I don't know how, or even if, Australia takes into account higher risk drivers, but
I'll find out later this year when I emmigrate!

The compulsory third party injury insurance is a component of the vehicle registration. It takes no
account of the driver, but varies depending on the type of vehicle. The guvmn't can't seem to make
up its mind whether it is to cover the injuries that this class of vehicles *cause* to the rest of
the community, or the injuries that (occupants of) this class of vehicles sustain -- they'll use
whichever one makes it more convenient at the time.

This does not include third party property insurance, which is not compulsory, although there are
various groups pressuring to make it so. Membership of any of the state bicycle groups in
Australia provides third party property insurance. (so that when you run your SPD down the side of
a mercedes after being clipped by a truck that turns without indicating, you don't have to pay for
a Merc respray)

total annual "registration costs" for my 750cc motorbike (the only class of vehicle I know the
exact details of) are $381.00, comprising: $28.00 - Registration fee $321.00 - Insurance: including
$29.18 GST (VAT equivalent) $32.10 - Stamp duty: govmn't charge levied on govmn't charges, to get
more money.

All these charges vary on a state-by-state basis, since we've got eight governments, not one
(Federal Government + seven state governments)

Companies offering third party property insurance, and comprehensive vehicle theft/damage insurances
usually take into account the driver's record. I'm hazy on them though, since I don't have any.

There you go, way too much detail.

must be time to go ride my mountain bike...

Quoted message said:

Have fun!

Graeme

ADrian

---------------------------------------------------------------
Adrian Tritschler "][email hidden] Latitude 38°S, Longitude 145°E,
Altitude 50m, Shoe size 44
---------------------------------------------------------------

David Hansen said:

On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:39:10 +0100 someone who may be "Kit Wolf" <[email hidden]>
wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Taken from highwaycode.gov.uk03.shtmlOpen ↗, rules for cyclists:

47: Use cycle routes when practicable. They can make your journey safer.

If they don't make your journey safer then is it practicable to use them?

Quoted message said:

49: Cycle Lanes. These are marked by a white line (which may be broken) along the carriageway
(see Rule 119). Keep within the lane wherever possible.

If it is not possible to keep within the lane safely then it is not possible to keep within the
lane safely. See Cyclecraft on proper positioning.

It's often possible to keep within the lane unsafely though... My point isn't that we should be
riding in cycle lanes (if that's how it appeared)
- just that there's scant support in the Highway Code for the view that we shouldn't strive to do
so. Or if there is, it involves splitting hairs and long arguments (most of which will be
non-obvious to anyone who doesn't cycle a lot). This is disappointing in a document that should be
as simple and clear as possible.

If anyone did shout "get in the cycle lane" to me, I don't think it would help just to shout back
"read the highway code" even if they went straight back home and did just that.

Kit

Kit Wolf said:

47: Use cycle routes when practicable. They can make your journey safer.

Keyword: practicable. Pottering along at a walking pace because the surface resembles that of the
moon, having to fix p+nct+r+s all the time because the idle twots at the council never sweep the
sharp gravel and broken glass off the thing, dodging pedestrians and abandoned cars and falling on
my [censored] in the winter coz the idle twots at the council don't sand or salt the thing either do not
fit my vision of what is "practicable".

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

Hi

Just zis Guy said:

This refers to tne NCN, I assume (cycle route rather than track or lane). I would say "Cycle
routes (such as the National Cycle Network) can make your journey safer and more pleasant."

I would add to this " and longer"

if I followed the NCN (7) from my home to work I would add between 5-10 minutes onto a 22min
commute.My home is about 150m from the route and the work is about 300m.

Allan

Allan McVie said:

Hi

Just zis Guy said:

This refers to tne NCN, I assume (cycle route rather than track or lane). I would say "Cycle
routes (such as the National Cycle Network) can make your journey safer and more pleasant."

I would add to this " and longer"

if I followed the NCN (7) from my home to work I would add between 5-10 minutes onto a 22min
commute.My home is about 150m from the route and the work is about 300m.

Trips I can do in a morning become touring holidays involving campsites and a day cleaning mud &
grit off a road bike. Very nice if you're cycling for its own sake.

But otherwise...

Kit

"Allan McVie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi

Just zis Guy said:

This refers to tne NCN, I assume (cycle route rather than track or lane). I would say "Cycle
routes (such as the National Cycle

Network)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

can make your journey safer and more pleasant."

I would add to this " and longer"

if I followed the NCN (7) from my home to work I would add between

5-10

Quoted message said:

minutes onto a 22min commute.My home is about 150m from the route and the work is about 300m.

My heart bleeds custard for you :-)

The nearest bit of the NCN to where I live is about 7000 miles (approx) and it doesn't go anywhere
near any of the places I most need to go.

I'd be delighted to be able to get on the NCN in a few minutes ride. And if it passed within 300m of
my work I'd ride it every day, just for the hell of knowing I was using something actually built for
the benefit of cyclists.

It isn't going to happen though.
--
Mark South: Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net "I wonder why so many Finnish traditions are
related with booze?"
- Juha Sakkinen

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:33:52 +0100 someone who may be "Kit Wolf" <[email hidden]>
wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

It's often possible to keep within the lane unsafely though...

There is no law that says that cyclists must make their life less safe, in order to allow others to
"gain" a second or two.

Quoted message said:

This is disappointing in a document that should be as simple and clear as possible.

The Highway Code is written by the road lobby. They did accept some minor suggestions for improving
the draft of the current version, but in essence they have a "get those dammed cyclists out of the
way" approach.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

David Hansen <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:33:52 +0100 someone who may be "Kit Wolf" <[email hidden]>
wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

It's often possible to keep within the lane unsafely though...

There is no law that says that cyclists must make their life less safe, in order to allow others
to "gain" a second or two.

You keep saying this, David and yet all I can see is the *motorist* being slowed down everywhere
and cyclists speeded up. There are so many 20 mph limits, pinch points, humps, dual carriageways
made into single, speed cameras and so on, that are designed to slow cars down. I've not come
across anything to slow me down on a bike except perhaps P pillars at cycle track entrances and
even those are being removed. Simon

Quoted message said:

47: Use cycle routes when practicable. They can make your journey safer.

49: Cycle Lanes. These are marked by a white line (which may be broken) along the carriageway
(see Rule 119). Keep within the lane wherever possible.

Does anybody know why the HC sometimes uses the word "practicable", and sometiomes "possible"?
Everybody tells me that their choice is purely random and that in Britain "possible" and
"practicable" have exactly the same meaning.

I'm suspicious about this because, in the USA, possible and practicable certainly do not have the
same meaning. In the USA practicable means possible AND safe AND reasonable. A number of states have
a rule requiring cyclists to keep as far right as PRACTICABLE. None have a law requiring bikes to
keep as far right as POSSIBLE, for obvious reasons.

States usually have a law requiring cyclists to keep within a bike lane except during a number of
conditions: when preparing to turn left, when avoiding junk, etc, when overtaking, when travelling
as fast, or faster than other traffic. Motorists will often helpfully assist you in obeying this
law. They are beginning to help cyclists in Britain too.

Jeremy Parker

Jeremy Parker said:

Everybody tells me that their choice is purely random and that in Britain "possible" and
"practicable" have exactly the same meaning.

I think not.

I'm told its possible to win the lottery, but I have not found it practicable.

Sound English usage, as far as I'm aware.

--
Jim Price

jimprice.dsl.pipex.comjimprice.dsl.pipex.comOpen ↗

Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.

Aye!.