George the Follower

B. Lafferty said:

There are leaders and followers. Hoste should be the Discovery leader at
Paris-Roubaix. From Eurosport:

This is secondary. Of primary importance is the fact that
George has dumped last year's sunglasses. He's taken a
big step forward before the race even starts.

Bob Schwartz

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:18:52 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

There are leaders and followers. Hoste should be the Discovery leader at
Paris-Roubaix. From Eurosport:

Quick Step led a lead group that included both Hoste and Hincapie until the
Discovery attack, which caught the American Hincapie by surprise.

"If I would have known he was attacking, maybe I could have gone with him,"
the 32-year-old Hincapie said of his teammate, who was coming off of a
victory in last week's Three Days of La Panne.

Well, George can just get Hoste kicked off the team for taking
initiative.

More seriously, the Discovery Team had better keep their Belgian
classic's guys happy or they're going to leave as Boonen did. At the
moment, Discovery's got a really good classic's team. It's not
Quick-Step, but it's good.

JT

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On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:18:52 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"If I would have known he was attacking,
maybe I could have gone with him,"
the 32-year-old Hincapie said of his teammate,

Maybe George's radio wasn't working?

JT

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"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

There are leaders and followers. Hoste should be the Discovery leader at
Paris-Roubaix. From Eurosport:

This is secondary. Of primary importance is the fact that
George has dumped last year's sunglasses. He's taken a
big step forward before the race even starts.

Bob Schwartz

Excellent observation.

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:18:52 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"If I would have known he was attacking,
maybe I could have gone with him,"
the 32-year-old Hincapie said of his teammate,

Maybe George's radio wasn't working?

JT

That must have been what happened. ;-)

B. Lafferty said:

There are leaders and followers. Hoste should be the Discovery leader at
Paris-Roubaix.

Dumbass -

Hoste is the one who didn't have the right tactic. After he and Boonen
got a good gap, he should've pulled the Boogerd and refused to do any
work. Boonen would then have had the dilemma of pulling him to the
finish (where Hoste would've had a much better chance in the sprint) or
going back to the group.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

There are leaders and followers. Hoste should be the Discovery leader at
Paris-Roubaix.

Dumbass -

Hoste is the one who didn't have the right tactic. After he and Boonen
got a good gap, he should've pulled the Boogerd and refused to do any
work. Boonen would then have had the dilemma of pulling him to the
finish (where Hoste would've had a much better chance in the sprint) or
going back to the group.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Well, now we know why you'll never be asked to ride as DS for any decent
team, anywhere. Have a great evening. :-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"If I would have known he was attacking,
maybe I could have gone with him,"
the 32-year-old Hincapie said of his teammate,

Maybe George's radio wasn't working

That's actually how I read it. A communications breakdown of some sort.
Could be equipment, could be that Hoste simply didn't let his intentions be
known to his team.

Nobody mentions Boonen's quote at the end of the article though-

"If they ride with me they ride for second place..."

Yikes. You'd have to be Merckx caliber to give meaning to not look really
stupid or supremely arrogant saying something like that. And Boonen's no...
well, actually, he just might be. At least for the Classics.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

That's actually how I read it. A communications breakdown of some sort.
Could be equipment, could be that Hoste simply didn't let his intentions be
known to his team.

Hincapie, before the race:
"We're just to try not to arrive at the finish with him, because he's
probably the fastest guy in the world," Hincapie said. "So the best
option is, if you're in a break with him, to have more than one guy
from the team there with you, and just attack, that's really the only
thing to do."

Mike Tyson, in his prime: "Everybody's got a plan until they get hit."

B. Lafferty said:

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

There are leaders and followers. Hoste should be the Discovery leader at
Paris-Roubaix.

Dumbass -

Hoste is the one who didn't have the right tactic. After he and Boonen
got a good gap, he should've pulled the Boogerd and refused to do any
work. Boonen would then have had the dilemma of pulling him to the
finish (where Hoste would've had a much better chance in the sprint) or
going back to the group.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Well, now we know why you'll never be asked to ride as DS for any decent
team, anywhere. Have a great evening. :-)

Henry's right. When you're in a 2-up break with a superior sprinter,
you have to do the minimum amount of work possible to keep the break
alive, while maximizing your chances. Eventually, this involves
brinksmanship by forcing the sprinter to the front, and refusing to
work - especially if you've got a teammate like George in the chase
group.

Quoted message said:

Henry's right. When you're in a 2-up break with a superior sprinter,
you have to do the minimum amount of work possible to keep the break
alive, while maximizing your chances. Eventually, this involves
brinksmanship by forcing the sprinter to the front, and refusing to
work - especially if you've got a teammate like George in the chase
group.

Hincapie+Hoste vs Bettini+Boonen.
I think only the lower steps would have different occupants.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Dumbass -

Hoste is the one who didn't have the right tactic. After he and Boonen
got a good gap, he should've pulled the Boogerd and refused to do any
work. Boonen would then have had the dilemma of pulling him to the
finish (where Hoste would've had a much better chance in the sprint) or
going back to the group.

dumbass,

yes, but hoste had his own ambition. if he sat on boonen it might've
meant he would've had to defer to hincapie. i haven't seen the video
yet, but it sounds like hoste's actions just guaranteed him 2nd place.

when boogerd sat on armstrong in the '99 amstel he had the luxury of
having zberg in a chase group, so armstrong had to keep driving the
break.

Quoted message said:

dumbass,

yes, but hoste had his own ambition. if he sat on boonen it might've
meant he would've had to defer to hincapie.

Dumbass -

If that was indeed Hoste's thinking, it was dumb. He's already finished
2nd in TdFlanders once before.

Why repeat that result? Second place is only an excellent goal if
you've never done it before.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Dumbass -

If that was indeed Hoste's thinking, it was dumb. He's already finished
2nd in TdFlanders once before.

Why repeat that result? Second place is only an excellent goal if
you've never done it before.

dumbass,

agreed. i can only speculate if any wrangling went on within discovery,
but often the rider isn't the most objective when it comes to tactical
decisions.

if you read the pozzato interview on cyclingnews he says he really
wanted to take a pull when he was in the break in MSR, but the
underlying message is he didn't dare because the the fallout for
deviating from the plan is probably harsh on that team regardless of
outcome.

in fact petacchi almost caught pozzato, so working in the break
might've cost him the win. but using that kind of pressure is precisely
how lefevre's teams dominate certain races.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Henry's right. When you're in a 2-up break with a superior sprinter,
you have to do the minimum amount of work possible to keep the break
alive, while maximizing your chances. Eventually, this involves
brinksmanship by forcing the sprinter to the front, and refusing to
work - especially if you've got a teammate like George in the chase
group.

Hincapie+Hoste vs Bettini+Boonen.
I think only the lower steps would have different occupants.

I don't know how it would have turned out, but I would have loved to see a
4up last 2k with the four of them. It would have been one for the ages.

Bestest Handsander said:

I don't know how it would have turned out, but I would have loved to see a
4up last 2k with the four of them. It would have been one for the ages.

Dumbass -

No it would not have been one for the ages.

Bettini would've led him out and Boonen would've won, hands down. The
suspense would've been minimal, given the preordained result.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

B. Lafferty said:

There are leaders and followers. Hoste should be the Discovery leader at
Paris-Roubaix.

Dumbass -

Hoste is the one who didn't have the right tactic. After he and Boonen
got a good gap, he should've pulled the Boogerd and refused to do any
work. Boonen would then have had the dilemma of pulling him to the
finish (where Hoste would've had a much better chance in the sprint) or
going back to the group.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

What's wrong with Hoste's tactic?? He attacked once and the two
strongest riders were in front. He got second. Or should he have
waited until Boonen powers away from the group on the Muur or Bosberg?
It's like Jose De Cauwer said afterwards: It should be pretty
ridiculous not to ride with Boonen (after an attack he lanched himself)
and to be beaten in the sprint by 20m instead of 30m when he
cooperated. Hoste is getting a lot more credit and honour by his
initiative than by being a coward.
The only chance Discovery Channel had was in a breakaway with both
Hoste and Hincapie and Boonen isolated (like Mapei in 2002). The only
oportunity was when Kroon tried to bridge the gap after the Valkenberg.
If Hincapie was really as good as he said, he should have been there
in Kroon' s wheel. The chances of joining Boonen and Hoste with Kroon
would have been a lot bigger.

Kenny

So ending 7th is a lot better if you the legs for a possible 2nd place?

I really don't get it why he's so criticized. Should he have waited
for Georgie?
So it would have been better if he didn't attack at all, right?

Kenny

Kenny said:

So ending 7th is a lot better if you the legs for a possible 2nd place?

I really don't get it why he's so criticized. Should he have waited
for Georgie?
So it would have been better if he didn't attack at all, right?

Dumbass -

No, it's just that once he got in the break, he basically rode for 2nd.
He can't beat Boonen in the sprint and didn't try any other tactic,
like doing the Boogerd.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.