Gel vs Cola

Absent Husband said:

Hi all,

Over the weekend, I was doing some last minute net trawling to finalize
my FrankenGu/AbbyGel homebrew recipe.

One link I followed (sorry, I was tired and can't remember it)
basically suggested that rather than gu/gel, you are just as well off
drinking Coke/Pepsi. Basis was that you get a decent caffeine & sugar
hit from the cola, and that any performance advantages that gel has
over cola is disputable/untested.

Yes, I remembered that you don't take anything on the 'net too
seriously, because it in itself is untested...

But then I remembered my 3-week haze of Tour watching. And how I kept
seeing the riders reaching into their feedzone goodie bags, and
drinking cans of Coke.

It's [censored] sugar and hard to digest, but it *is* mostly sugar.

Absent Husband said:

One link I followed (sorry, I was tired and can't remember it)
basically suggested that rather than gu/gel, you are just as well off
drinking Coke/Pepsi. Basis was that you get a decent caffeine & sugar
hit from the cola, and that any performance advantages that gel has
over cola is disputable/untested.

The problem is that you're dealing with Sucrose, rather than the more
complex carbohydrates used in gels (normally Maltodextrin). Get some
maltodextrin from a brewer (not you Carl, unless you've got it at The
Right Price (TM)) or wherever and taste a bit - it should be like
tasting flour - basically a bland powder. It takes a certain amount of
time to release the glucose, which means you get a reaonable sustained
boost.

Sucrose is (IIRC) either a double Glucose duomer, or a Glucose/Fructose
duomer. In either case, it's trivial to release the glucose, so you get
the sugar rush, then crash. On a bike that can mean another type of
crash, especially off road.

You've also got that lovely carbonation and phosphoric acid to deal
with - gels are normally pretty easy to digest, and easy on the
stomach. While the sugar hit of a Coke will be quick and easy, the
acids aren't going to be nice.

The reason the Tour riders drink Coke is that Coke sponsors the Tour.
They've also got plenty of more complex carbs to eat, so the sugar
crash isn't such a risk - but it's caught a few people out. Witness
Armstrong 2 years ago, and Vino this year. Whether that was a sugar
rush masking the end of their energy, or they just ran out is a bit
hard to tell, but I'm inclined toward the former given how often those
guys push their bodies.

Dave - who'd suggest roughly 25-75 glucose/maltodextrin, with a pinch
of diet salt (potassium and sodium), a dash of citric acid, and vanilla
essence. I'd have to double check, but I think it's 25 "ml" of glucose,
75 of maltodextrin and 50 of water to get a decent consistency.
Stir/chuck in microwave/repeat. I use "ml" because you can get a
reasonably accurate measure of a powder.

I can check the ratios, but it was one of the ones posted in the thread
a few weeks back

Dave - whose homebrew Gu worked well at the Yarramundi 8hr

Absent Husband said:

One link I followed (sorry, I was tired and can't remember it)
basically suggested that rather than gu/gel, you are just as well off
drinking Coke/Pepsi. Basis was that you get a decent caffeine & sugar
hit from the cola, and that any performance advantages that gel has
over cola is disputable/untested.

There is also the question of available water to enter the stomach to
allow the substance to be absorbed.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Random Data said:

The reason the Tour riders drink Coke is that Coke sponsors the Tour.

There seems to be a bit more to it than that: <http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0204.htm>

--
Shane Stanley

"Random Data" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Absent Husband said:

One link I followed (sorry, I was tired and can't remember it)
basically suggested that rather than gu/gel, you are just as well off
drinking Coke/Pepsi. Basis was that you get a decent caffeine & sugar
hit from the cola, and that any performance advantages that gel has
over cola is disputable/untested.

Sucrose is (IIRC) either a double Glucose duomer, or a Glucose/Fructose
duomer. In either case, it's trivial to release the glucose, so you get
the sugar rush, then crash. On a bike that can mean another type of
crash, especially off road.

Isn't gatorade a sucrose / glucose blend?

Rhubarb said:

Isn't gatorade a sucrose / glucose blend?

Quite probably - I don't have a bottle to hand. Gatorade is far from
the perfect sport drink. The sugars aren't great and there isn't enough
salt. It's good for medium length efforts (say 2-3 hours), but for real
endurance stuff you need more and more complex carbs, and you need more
electrolytes. I find that a mix of simple and complex sugars work well,
and IIRC neither Powerade or Gatorade offer anything more complex than
sucrose.

As far as caffeine and Coke - No-Doz is easy to get, and there are
plenty of ways to imbibe caffeine and sugar that aren't as nasty on the
stomach - I saw the article mentioned, but they were testing athletes
on short term stuff. In endurance work, your stomach goes to [censored]. I
don't think I could drink a Coke - even flat - after say 6 hours. I
know that watered down Red Bull makes me feel sick after around that
time, though after 10 minutes or so I do feel better than beforehand.
At the same stage of an enduro, I can drink a coffee easily.

Dave - who has found Mars Bars and donuts work disturbingly well...

Random Data said:

As far as caffeine and Coke - No-Doz is easy to get, and there are
plenty of ways to imbibe caffeine and sugar that aren't as nasty on the
stomach - I saw the article mentioned, but they were testing athletes
on short term stuff. In endurance work, your stomach goes to [censored]. I
don't think I could drink a Coke - even flat - after say 6 hours. I
know that watered down Red Bull makes me feel sick after around that
time, though after 10 minutes or so I do feel better than beforehand.
At the same stage of an enduro, I can drink a coffee easily.

Youz are all talking about sugar types and stuff but you're forgetting a key point.. have you ever tried to drink Coke while working hard?
It's gonna be a personal thing but you'd HAVE to degas it first (which is a pain) and even then it's not gonna go down that well.. maybe after the race..

Having said that, I can scoff almost anything, anytime.

hippy a.k.a fatso (but with digestive super powers!)

Terry Collins said:

Absent Husband said:

One link I followed (sorry, I was tired and can't remember it)
basically suggested that rather than gu/gel, you are just as well off
drinking Coke/Pepsi. Basis was that you get a decent caffeine & sugar
hit from the cola, and that any performance advantages that gel has
over cola is disputable/untested.

There is also the question of available water to enter the stomach to
allow the substance to be absorbed.

Have a look at this website. I know they're selling products but the
articles you can download are very informative.

http://www.e-caps.com/za/ECP?PAGE=DOWNLOADS&CAT=FREE_DOWNLOADS&OMI=10087,10071&AMI=10087

Zoom

hippy said:

Random Data said:

As far as caffeine and Coke - No-Doz is easy to get, and there are
plenty of ways to imbibe caffeine and sugar that aren't as nasty on
the
stomach - I saw the article mentioned, but they were testing athletes
on short term stuff. In endurance work, your stomach goes to [censored]. I
don't think I could drink a Coke - even flat - after say 6 hours. I
know that watered down Red Bull makes me feel sick after around that
time, though after 10 minutes or so I do feel better than beforehand.
At the same stage of an enduro, I can drink a coffee easily.

Youz are all talking about sugar types and stuff but you're forgetting
a key point.. have you ever tried to drink Coke while working hard?
It's gonna be a personal thing but you'd HAVE to degas it first (which
is a pain) and even then it's not gonna go down that well.. maybe after
the race..

Having said that, I can scoff almost anything, anytime.

hippy a.k.a fatso (but with digestive super powers!)

--
hippy

Really? Ironman triathletes (the ones I know, and most of them are sub
10 hr) have no worries drinking flat, diluted coke in the later stages.
Like most have commented, the problem isn't the up, the up works great,
it's the down after that's the problem. The solution? Keep consuming it.

Tam

Tamyka Bell said:

Really? Ironman triathletes (the ones I know, and most of them are sub
10 hr) have no worries drinking flat, diluted coke in the later stages.
Like most have commented, the problem isn't the up, the up works great,
it's the down after that's the problem. The solution? Keep consuming it.

Tam

I concur, from experience there is nothing better than Coke on the Ironman r*n! You need to match it with some sports drinks and water so that you don't end up with too high a concentration of carbs (which reduces absorption of water).

Once you start on the coke you need to use it all the way to the finish.

As to riding, I know that the quick hit of a coke can be the ideal thing to restart the body when flat on a long ride, the sugar hit helps you feel 'up' enough to keep eating and drinking.

hippy said:

Youz are all talking about sugar types and stuff but you're forgetting a key point.. have you ever tried to drink Coke while working hard?
It's gonna be a personal thing but you'd HAVE to degas it first (which is a pain) and even then it's not gonna go down that well.. maybe after the race..

Having said that, I can scoff almost anything, anytime.

hippy a.k.a fatso (but with digestive super powers!)

coke is quite widely used from some people I ran with while doing marathon training, they live by it, but specifically they use it towards the end of a race, and you have to make sure it is "FLAT" this is vitally imporant, particularly when running, as some stories atested to, poor people.

again does this not come down to the same thing it always does, what works for you, works for you and its all a matter of training with it and getting your body used to it ??

hippy said:

Youz are all talking about sugar types and stuff but you're forgetting
a key point.. have you ever tried to drink Coke while working hard?

I think I mentioned carbonation in my first post in this thread. In any
case, there's nothing more amusing than watching the froth come out of
a camelbak that your loony riding partner just filled at the 7-11.

Dave - who has seen this.

MikeyOz said:

coke is quite widely used from some people I ran with while doing
marathon training, they live by it, but specifically they use it
towards the end of a race, and you have to make sure it is "FLAT" this
is vitally imporant, particularly when running, as some stories atested
to, poor people.

That's the point isn't it? Towards the end of the race - the only times
I saw tdf riders drinking coke was either (a) before a descent, or (b)
shortly before the finish. I know that (a) may just be thats where the
sensible place for the feeding station is, but I would think that (b) is
the real point - its always the sprinters you see at the finish reaching
for the coke, which has led me to think that its purely the sugar kick
they're after, and not concerning themselves with the crash that follows
(ever seen a sprinter worried about a crash?).

my 2c

cheers
dim